GDT: 2022-23 season game 38 LA Kings vs Vegas Golden Knights @7:30pm 12/27/22

[KINGS17]

I mean, that’s literally what Blake and Luc told the fans after they swept in with their palace coup in 2017. We’re not finished contending for a Cup. Etc etc etc.

When will Dean return from the hockey equivalent of Elba?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Makar, Rantanen, MacKinnon, absolutely, it took Colorado NINE YEARS.....after they drafted MacKinnon to win....NINE YEARS.....

Yet we are bitching because it's taken THREE since we took Byfield.....and we aren't winning? And Byfield IS NOWHERE NEAR THE PLAYER MACKINNON IS/WAS during his draft year, he was much more of a project....

There's a reason why I didn't include a #1 OA, a #10OA and a #4 OA or whatever Makar was.....because it TOOK THEM NINE YEARS....to compete.....



Both Bjornfoot and Spence were playing big minutes in the AHL developing their game....correct? What exactly is the issue? We DON'T want to develop them?



NINE YEARS...is what it took....for "special"

Surprise! You're moving the goalposts again!

Not one person has decried that we don't look like Colorado right now and most acknowledge and are okay with the thought that it will take time.

The contention is that LA has started amassing pieces but is NOT playing them in positions they can grow and are instead relying incredibly heavily on aging vets to the detriment of BOTH.

Landeskog was Captain of the Avalanche at age 19, even though Hejduk, EJ, and even Stastny were there; when do you think the Kings will turn over even an "A" to one of the youth?

It took age 23, injuries and massive slumps from other players, and becoming our leading goalscorer before they moved Vilardi up and even then it was to jumpstart Kopitar rather than vice-versa.

Don't get me started on Kaliyev.



In any case, yes, going back to the initial claim before you tried to weasel your way out as always, the problem will be if Byfield and Clarke don't pan out because those are SUPPOSED to be your future leaders not your JAGs and you still treat worse than journeyman checkers.

So we just ignore the players they have developed?

No you f***ing onion stop

The point is the players they HAVE developed are not blue chip talent outside Vilardi, they're going to be great character fillers but they're middle sixers and depth dmen.

The guys who are supposed to take over for Kopitar and Doughty are not even allowed to take over for Jaret-Anderson Dolan and Sean Walker

 

[bland]

As with other things I’ve said playing in the NHL and development are not mutually exclusive. They can help the NHL team and develop at the same time if used properly. The D is not balanced on the left so Björnfot is a logical option (played fine across his 4 games) and Spence is a better player IMO than anyone on the right not named Doughty. Like I said making room isn’t that easy but its still frustrating because these guys are the future.

What's equally frustrating is that there are clearly some things that Spence needs to work on, but they are all related to the experience needed at the NHL level. No reason to believe that he wouldn't adapt quickly either - the pro team could be much closer to the "stated" goals by taking one small step back instead of constantly shuffling sideways. Spence is clearly the 2nd best RHD on their pro rosters. Its not as though the team would suffer one bit by giving him Walker's minutes if not Durzi's. Strange thinking there.

 

[King'sPawn]

Surprise! You're moving the goalposts again!

Not one person has decried that we don't look like Colorado right now and most acknowledge and are okay with the thought that it will take time.

The contention is that LA has started amassing pieces but is NOT playing them in positions they can grow and are instead relying incredibly heavily on aging vets to the detriment of BOTH.

Landeskog was Captain of the Avalanche at age 19, even though Hejduk, EJ, and even Stastny were there; when do you think the Kings will turn over even an "A" to one of the youth?

It took age 23, injuries and massive slumps from other players, and becoming our leading goalscorer before they moved Vilardi up and even then it was to jumpstart Kopitar rather than vice-versa.

Don't get me started on Kaliyev.



In any case, yes, going back to the initial claim before you tried to weasel your way out as always, the problem will be if Byfield and Clarke don't pan out because those are SUPPOSED to be your future leaders not your JAGs and you still treat worse than journeyman checkers.



No you f***ing onion stop

The point is the players they HAVE developed are not blue chip talent outside Vilardi, they're going to be great character fillers but they're middle sixers and depth dmen.

The guys who are supposed to take over for Kopitar and Doughty are not even allowed to take over for Jaret-Anderson Dolan and Sean Walker

I'm just going to say I am shocked that some people continue not to get it, move the goal posts, and argue in bad faith.

Shocked.

 

[bland]

I mean, that’s literally what Blake and Luc told the fans after they swept in with their palace coup in 2017. We’re not finished contending for a Cup. Etc etc etc.

There's no pressure to do anything differently. Absentee ownership, zero media pressure, the same group of fans show up regardless of results - readymade excuses due to Covid - all with the very real possibility that Blake is just average at his job at best.

The bottom dropped out here a few years ago and changes weren't made. Millions upon millions of dollars were wasted on bad decisions and no changes. Its very likely that there is simply nobody in charge actually expecting results and demanding accountability.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I'm just going to say I am shocked that some people continue not to get it, move the goal posts, and argue in bad faith.

Shocked.

Incredibly close to adding to the ignore body count for full zen

 

[King'sPawn]

Incredibly close to adding to the ignore body count for full zen

You mean you're going to be a p***y like me? Oh no! Think of the people who will lose respect for you.

 

[bland]

I'm just going to say I am shocked that some people continue not to get it, move the goal posts, and argue in bad faith.

Shocked.

I just heard this in Claude Rains voice.

 

[Sol]

No one is expecting the Kings to have a Colorado core. I personally don’t see the talent but in the same breath we all agree it’s not like they’re getting a fair shot with Kopitars corpse being dragged up and down the ice like a first liner

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

For those who are convinced that Byfield is being robbed of ice time and that he's wallowing in sadness over it (yeah you, RJ):

>>“I don’t like to doubt myself too much,” Byfield said. “But I’ve always just walked in, even if I’m going to the Ontario Reign room, heads up, ready to be there, ready to play. And just really excited. You get paid to play hockey. Just happy each day and just trying to make the best of each opportunity.”<<

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I am saying that the Kings have yet to develop a high end player, if we are touting players like Trevor Moore and Sean Durzi as featured development successes, then the development might not be the best. Moore is a .5 PPG forward who is about to turn 28 and Sean Durzi is an exciting player, but his underlying numbers are Jack Minus Forever Johnson levels of atrocious. Since Blake was hired, the Kings have had the 11th, 20th, 5th. 2nd and 8th overall draft picks and so far we have not seen anywhere near the results from those picks that you would hope for. You are right that it is still early and one of them could break out at any time, but you can't claim they have been successful at development when we have multiple lottery picks struggling to adapt their game to the NHL.

How many chances have they truly had to develop a high end player? I think people forget they haven't had a top 10 pick since....Doughty maybe? Vilardi was #11, before that, the highest pick was Brayden Schenn in 2009....

Kinda hard to develop top end talent, when you aren't in a position to draft top end talent....

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

That's actually really good illustration of the opposing argument, so yes.

Colorado did an excellent job supplementing their homegrown young core--MacKinnon, Makar, Rantanen, even older ones such as Landeskog--with excellent supplemental players in Nuke, Kadri, etc. and even vets like Helm.

Much like we're arguing for the Kings need to re-establish their homegrown young core--Byfield, Clarke, Turcotte, Kaliyev, even 'older' ones such as Vilardi--with excellent supplemental players in Spence, Anderson, Thomas, etc. and even vets like Moore, Danault, Arvy.

The LUXURY the Kings have over Colorado here is having guys like Kopitar and Doughty to ease people in--but the easing isn't happening, this would be like if Colorado kept and played Duchene and erik Johnson 25 minutes per game while waiting for MacKinnon to take off on the 4th line next to Blake Comeau or some shit.

You call it a luxury...but have you ever flipped it around, everyone is complaining that we don't play our youngsters like Zegras, Stultze, Raymond, Hughes etc, THAT is the luxury, to just play them and not care about winning.....it's working in NJ....that's the only playce, and even then took 4 years, and look who they added for structure, or that luxury you have, Hamilton, Tatar, Haula, Palat.....it's exactly what LA did, (though LA did it a bit later on, Kopitar, Brown, Quick, Doughty, they added talent to that core when they were 23,25,24,23 etc, so maybe not that much longer, but they added Williams, Smyth, Stoll, Handzus, Scuderi, Mitchell, etc....

Show me a single team...that has drafted a top 5 player (ie Byfield etc) and has played them immediately in the top 6, when they have a "legend" core of Kopitar, etc.....the only time those players play right away, is when there is no top player there anymore, who did Jack Hughest supplant? Palmieri, Zacha? Who did Stultze supplant? Who did Zegras supplant? Getzlaf?

They need to re-establish home grown core, name one team that has done that, in ONE year....again, with no current core that is there.....it just doesn't happen,

But f*** if people around here understand that, they all live in a f***ing Sega world where all you have to do is hit the f***ing A button....

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

As with other things I’ve said playing in the NHL and development are not mutually exclusive. They can help the NHL team and develop at the same time if used properly. The D is not balanced on the left so Björnfot is a logical option (played fine across his 4 games) and Spence is a better player IMO than anyone on the right not named Doughty. Like I said making room isn’t that easy but its still frustrating because these guys are the future.

Would you rather have Bjornfoot playing 20 min a game in all situations, or.....10 minutes in limited? Same with Spence.....

No, it's not mutually exclusive, but where do you think they will develop more? They wanted Bjornfoot to find a more offensive game, where do you think he will be able to take more chances, experiment with more scenarios, etc.....

 

[Fishhead]

Colorado and the Kings can't be compared directly.

The reason MacKinnon, Duchene, Landeskog, etc. didn't start on the 4th line is they are better players than Vilardi, Kaliyev, and Byfield. None of them really had warts or were considered anything but NHL ready. That's why they went 1, 2, and 3.

Rantanen is a different story, he followed what the Kings tend to do. He was already playing pro hockey before he came over. In his first season he played very limited minutes on the bottom lines despite being a 10th overall pick, and was promptly sent down to the AHL. After a year down there he was brought back up and started getting better assignments. He finally broke out the next season. Not all that dissimilar to what has happened with Vilardi and now with Byfield. We will see if Byfield can take it up a notch, he looked pretty quick and dangerous last game.

I get both sides of the argument, but the Kings haven't had the luxury of Colorado's draft positions, which was Edmonton-esque for a while. I highly doubt the Kings would have sent any of those first three guys down on the bottom lines, they were pretty good right out of the gates. The problem is less development and more that the Kings just haven't hit it big on any of their early draft picks. And to be fair most of the teams in the league haven't either. The draft quality just hasn't been there for the last 5 years or so.

 

[AbsentMojo]

When will Dean return from the hockey equivalent of Elba?

Not looking good - heard he's doin time on Saint Helena now

 

[KingsFan7824]

These wins mean nothing if byfield and Clarke don’t come close to their draft pedigree. If they don’t, the wins set back the organization since they will be stuck in mediocrity with good ufas winning games and the homegrown talent not becoming anything.

I think most of us know this but apparently some people think we’re being negative since we have the capacity to see the team beyond wins and losses

Because some are rather quick to declare things as a failure.

In 2006, had someone said the Kings will completely miss on a top 4 pick, and before winning a single playoff round led by a young core, will trade a recent top 5 pick, two other 1st rd picks, and a high quality young forward, would people say that team is ready to win the Cup? You don't even know if that core is good enough, no on-ice proof of it, and you're jumping the gun? We can also never forget that in the first true contender year, the team was out of the playoffs at the trade deadline. And if you want to throw in some extra spice, they also messed up not taking Karlsson because the GM believed in a mean guy.

You have to let the story play out. Even if you're a higher level fan than most.

I chalk it up to Blake being a 1st time GM and having played for TM was comfortable with him. Maybe Blake was also under the illusion that the cup core was going to stay relevant at the time of his hire.

A seasoned DL called his literal Canadian farm boy buddy to save his job when he started feeling some heat.

Who did DL hire after his first coaching disaster? A guy he knew and worked with in Philly.

Who did DL bring with him when he got the job? A guy he knew and worked with in Philly, and another guy he knew and worked with in SJ.

Winning cures all. Risky moves, comfort hires. If you win, nobody gives a shit. If you don't win, we're back to arguing over the minute details of losing players like Moulson and Purcell.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Oh look, another organization that is clueless on how to develop their top tier prospects….and here I thought the Kings were the only ones:

Alexis Lafreniere dropped to fourth line after Rangers no-show: ‘Want him to be better’

It was the former No. 1 pick who ended up in the doghouse at Wednesday’s Rangers practice after the team’s ugly loss to the Capitals.

nypost.com

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

A seasoned DL called his literal Canadian farm boy buddy to save his job when he started feeling some heat.

Who did DL hire after his first coaching disaster? A guy he knew and worked with in Philly.

Who did DL bring with him when he got the job? A guy he knew and worked with in Philly, and another guy he knew and worked with in SJ.

Winning cures all. Risky moves, comfort hires. If you win, nobody gives a shit. If you don't win, we're back to arguing over the minute details of losing players like Moulson and Purcell.

mid season with his job on the line he had to hire quickly after a firing, little different than having all the time in the world and not even conducting interviews of outside/available candidates before throwing the biggest coaching contract in the league at a comfort hire while quite a mix of unqualified and retread coaches were available.

Hire people in your sphere sure I get it but at least perform due diligence.

 

[King'sPawn]

mid season with his job on the line he had to hire quickly after a firing, little different than having all the time in the world and not even conducting interviews of outside/available candidates before throwing the biggest coaching contract in the league at a comfort hire while quite a mix of unqualified and retread coaches were available.

Hire people in your sphere sure I get it but at least perform due diligence.

Plus, Lombardi has always had a fondness for Darryl and he wanted to hire him much sooner. Darryl was GM at the time.

It wasn't a "job-saving" move aside from the timing.

 

[Kurrilino]

Just making sure I got this straight, if Vilardi, Spence, Durzi, Andersson, Kaliyev, Fagemo, Lizotte, Kupari, Turcotte all work out........these wins won't mean anything because Byfield and Clarke?

Is that the premise you are going with?

This is not what he said

 

[KingsFan7824]

mid season with his job on the line he had to hire quickly after a firing, little different than having all the time in the world and not even conducting interviews of outside/available candidates before throwing the biggest coaching contract in the league at a comfort hire while quite a mix of unqualified and retread coaches were available.

Hire people in your sphere sure I get it but at least perform due diligence.

And what of the other TM? All that work, with plenty of time, and DL just happens to go with the guy he knows?

Today we look back and say that TM was just a stepping stone to better things. Sutter was the championship level coach. Was that the case in Oct 2011, or just in Dec 2011? The Kings were seen as a contender that Oct, coach and all. Whereas today, they've been calling for Sutter's head in Calgary, because he plays Lewis and Lucic. Same guy. Maybe that's the problem though. Or, do you want consistency? When the Kings won, they were pretty famous for always playing the same way, no matter what. Winning, losing, do the same thing, the same way, every time, all the time. That was a positive. Then when they were losing, they were criticized for doing the same thing, the same way, every time, all the time. It both won the GM and coach a Cup, and cost them their jobs. It got DL that Team USA job, and resulted in a crappy team at the same time.

Maybe the current TM is a stepping stone. Maybe Blake is a stepping stone GM. Maybe 6 years from now is when the Kings are a true contender, based in part on things Blake did right now, but won't get to see because he'll be gone in 2 years. Who's to say?

 

[KingsFan7824]

Plus, Lombardi has always had a fondness for Darryl and he wanted to hire him much sooner. Darryl was GM at the time.

It wasn't a "job-saving" move aside from the timing.

Justification based on fondness?

 

[Trash Panda]

For those who are convinced that Byfield is being robbed of ice time and that he's wallowing in sadness over it (yeah you, RJ):

>>“I don’t like to doubt myself too much,” Byfield said. “But I’ve always just walked in, even if I’m going to the Ontario Reign room, heads up, ready to be there, ready to play. And just really excited. You get paid to play hockey. Just happy each day and just trying to make the best of each opportunity.”<<

That’s boilerplate “say the right thing even though you’re not f***ing happy about it”

I’ve gotta give it to ya, there are times I can’t tell if you’re trolling, or legitimately have the mental bandwidth of a potato.

Hell, maybe it’s both.

 

[HookKing]

Justification based on fondness?

It absolutely was a job saving move, TL flat out said that he forced DL to fire TM.

 

[johnjm22]

Vegas lost to Anaheim last night in a shootout. Good results for the Kings.

4pts out of first, both teams have played 38 games.

And Seattle is starting to struggle too.