WJC: 2021 Team USA Roster Talk

[Gopher13]

Bottom of the roster is for mediocrity. We can't invite younger players to this camp. And the bottom of the roster when the roster is settled might find it's way into top spots ahead of the best players on the team. College hockey coaches love their grinders.

You mean guys that may have a role? Luke Hughes isn't going to make this team nor deserves to right now. Samoskevich doesn't deserve to make this team either. Next years squad then yes...this years team- not close.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Didn't you already say that yesterday? We disagree.

 

[Jaykay]

A couple disappointing choices on the blue line for December camp, one could be expected, one I'm pretty shocked by.

Forward group looks strong as expected. four '02s in the bunch.

 

[William H Bonney]

A couple disappointing choices on the blue line for December camp, one could be expected, one I'm pretty shocked by.

Forward group looks strong as expected. four '02s in the bunch.

I imagine Vlasic is the expected disappointing selection. Curious on the other one.

 

[William H Bonney]

2021 WJC | December Camp Roster

Notes:

Goalies

• No surprises. All 3 guys could start.

Defense

• Alex Vlasic. Ugh. There are about 9+ defensemen better that should be under consideration. I don't understand the infatuation with him at all.
• Cam McDonald the shocker. Looks like he's getting the small d-man look over Dom Fensore. Nate Leaman influence I'm sure.
• Surprised both Struble and Warren missed out, but when you force Vlasic, and take an off-the-wall pick, some names will miss out.

Forwards

• Some guys like Judd Caulfield, Sean Farrell, Cross Hanas, Matthew Knies, Owen Lindmark, etc. left out.
• Moderately surprised by Caulfied, Farrell, and Lindmark given their history with USAH and especially because USAH loves guys like Caulfield and Lindmark for bottom 6 roles. Hopefully a sign they're planning to go with more skill.

Cuts

• Four players will get sent home, so my guesses: Vlasic, Berard, Farinacci, Slaggert

 

[Jaykay]

Leaman taking 3 Providence guys doesn't sit well with me, we'll see how he handles it but Moynihan is probably the only one who would have made it with another coach and even that's a borderline call.

 

[Bonin21]

It doesn't mean he has to take them to the tournament. I remember Sandelin inviting some guys to camp that probably shouldn't have been there.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

When the best age group we’ve ever had loses another big tournament, while Luke Hughes goes somewhere in the top five and potentially 1OA, remember that the coach brought one of his club team’s defensemen that no one called for to the camp. We take 20 year old grinders every year to these camps and eventually the tournament over our best younger players. Every other country has started to take their best young players.

I’m going to be very explicit. There needs to be a cleaning of house with the sporting department at USAH if we don’t win the Gold Medal. It’s been too many tournaments in a row where we haven’t won Gold, and we constantly lose key matches with the better team.

As to the team, I don’t see that many surprises. You could argue for Lindmark or Skinner, but Lindmark would only be there as a 4th line guy/extra forward to PK and take FO’s, while Skinner no doubt lost out because the OHL hasn’t started yet. I guess this makes some decisions easier at the bottom of the roster.

Edit: Didn’t even notice Caulfield and Fensore aren’t there. We’re talking about a 7D spot for Fensore, but I still think that’s a pretty bad call to have his own team’s defenseman no one wanted on the team over Fensore. Caulfield isn’t a USAH favorite, so I’m not that surprised, but I think we lose an element from our fourth line with him not there.

 

[William H Bonney]

Leaman taking 3 Providence guys doesn't sit well with me, we'll see how he handles it but Moynihan is probably the only one who would have made it with another coach and even that's a borderline call.

The thing about McDonald is what's changed to make him go from undeserving of a 'summer' camp invite to an 89% chance of making the team when he's played no games?

I'm all for some off the board picks in summer camp to see what guys have, or guys playing their way into contention, but McDonald doesn't fit either box, so it just reeks of favortisim.

 

[Gopher13]

When the best age group we’ve ever had loses another big tournament, while Luke Hughes goes somewhere in the top five and potentially 1OA, remember that the coach brought one of his club team’s defensemen that no one called for to the camp. We take 20 year old grinders every year to these camps and eventually the tournament over our best younger players. Every other country has started to take their best young players.

I’m going to be very explicit. There needs to be a cleaning of house with the sporting department at USAH if we don’t win the Gold Medal. It’s been too many tournaments in a row where we haven’t won Gold, and we constantly lose key matches with the better team.

As to the team, I don’t see that many surprises. You could argue for Lindmark or Skinner, but Lindmark would only be there as a 4th line guy/extra forward to PK and take FO’s, while Skinner no doubt lost out because the OHL hasn’t started yet. I guess this makes some decisions easier at the bottom of the roster.

I get the Hughes names carries weight but Luke Hughes shouldn't be seeing the ice in a tournament of this caliber at this point nor should be invited. He is an 03. If you think Hughes would make a difference then this team isn't close to a medal. Put down the fanboy juice for a minute. Owen Power is miles ahead of Hughes right now and wouldn't make Canada either. There are some questionable selections but Hughes not being there isn't one. McDonald? If he makes the team it would be a surprise.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Robertson-Turcotte-Kaliyev
Boldy-Zegras-Caufield
Brisson-Bordeleau-Brink
Beniers-Beecher-Berard
Farinacci

York-Thrun
Johnson-Helleson
Sanderson-Lacombe
Faber

Knight
Wolf
Commesso

I don’t love the bottom end of the roster on defense or forward. I feel like our last few spots are pretty weak, and it didn’t need to be. The top end should be good, but we’ll see. We said that last year and the coach played the grinders as the top players and the best players as the grinders.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[Bonin21]

Johnson and Faber have been a D pair this year and I could see that sticking with Lacombe as 7th D.

 

[PuckProspects]

Robertson-Zegras-Kaliyev
Boldy-Turcotte-Caufield
Beniers-Bordeleau-Brink
Brisson-Beecher-Colangelo
Mastrosimone-Monynihan

Sanderson-Thrun
York-Helleson
LaCombe-Vlasic
Johnson-Faber

Knight
Wolf
Commesso

Cuts
Slaggert
Berard
Farinacci
McDonald

Forwards and goaltending will be a strength. D is pretty weak hopefully they can mesh well and allow the forwards to take over games. For the cuts I think it's a year to early for Slaggert and Berard even though I like them both and Farinacci hasn't impressed this season in the USHL. Don't know anything about McDonald.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I don't think there's anybody out there *not* invited that would make much of a difference. Certainly not between this being a gold medal contender or not. When the dust settles the right names should be there. If some homerism wins out for a bottom pairing or bottom six role who cares? The fact is the U.S. has an awesome top nine group of forwards, tremendous goal tending, and a mobile defense. Should be a contender any way you look at it.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I get the Hughes names carries weight but Luke Hughes shouldn't be seeing the ice in a tournament of this caliber at this point nor should be invited. He is an 03. If you think Hughes would make a difference then this team isn't close to a medal. Put down the fanboy juice for a minute. Owen Power is miles ahead of Hughes right now and wouldn't make Canada either. There are some questionable selections but Hughes not being there isn't one. McDonald? If he makes the team it would be a surprise.

I think Hughes is currently better than McDonald and Vlasic rather easily. Those guys aren’t real NHL prospects. He’s arguably better than Faber. There’s a spot on the team right there. He doesn’t need to be better than Power. Power isn’t American. What I do know is that Canada took Lafreniere, Byfield, Drysdale, and Mercer to the tournament last year, and won. Lafreniere and Drysdale played big roles. Finland won the year before with Kakko, Lundell, and Heinola in big roles.

You keep making this point that our best underage players aren’t good enough. I could see the argument they shouldn’t be on the team if we pick our absolute best players. If some combination of Struble, Skinner, Powell, Fensore, even Miller, were here over McDonald, Vlasic, even Faber, you could convince me someone like Hughes is only somewhere in that pack of players with a chance to make the camp. When, at minimum, we are taking someone like Faber, and potentially a worse player like Vlasic or McDonald, you cannot convince me Hughes or other draft eligibles, even 2022 guys, shouldn’t be in discussion.

I’m not a fanboy because I don’t want to watch our future NHL stars play with Parker Ford and Cameron McDonald. Those guys don’t deserve to play at these tournaments. There is no given right for very marginal level NHL prospects to get a spot on the team or at this camp. It’s well understood that it’s for the best players, which almost always are the best prospects.

And there’s an argument to be made that there’s a long recent history of teams winning because they supplemented their best players with top younger kids who made key contributions. You are advocating the Torts at the WCH strategy where we take bad grinders and that wins out over pure skill. Too bad that the people at USAH agree with this bad strategy because we have all these good players like Knight, York, Zegras, Turcotte, Caufield, Sanderson, Thrun, Robertson, Kaliyev, Robertson, amongst others, and a team like Finland or Sweden or Russia with worse natural talent will probably finish better than us with contributions from key younger players.

 

[Gopher13]

Robertson-Zegras-Kaliyev
Boldy-Turcotte-Caufield
Beniers-Bordeleau-Brink
Brisson-Beecher-Colangelo
Mastrosimone-Monynihan

Sanderson-Thrun
York-Helleson
LaCombe-Vlasic
Johnson-Faber

Knight
Wolf
Commesso

Cuts
Slaggert
Berard
Farinacci
McDonald

Forwards and goaltending will be a strength. D is pretty weak hopefully they can mesh well and allow the forwards to take over games. For the cuts I think it's a year to early for Slaggert and Berard even though I like them both and Farinacci hasn't impressed this season in the USHL. Don't know anything about McDonald.

I think you are spot on. Plenty of firepower....like the defense but will need to rely on top 4 a lot...goalies are best group in tournament IMO and a huge advantage compared to what Canada can put out there.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Johnson and Faber have been a D pair this year and I could see that sticking with Lacombe as 7th D.

That’s a good point, but how much does Faber deserve to play? He’s really only in most of our projected teams because he’s not Vlasic or McDonald. I think this is one of these years where the 7D, hopefully Faber, doesn’t see the ice, unless there’s an injury, suspension or long penalty for a defensemen.

 

[Gopher13]

I think Hughes is currently better than McDonald and Vlasic rather easily. Those guys aren’t real NHL prospects. He’s arguably better than Faber. There’s a spot on the team right there. He doesn’t need to be better than Power. Power isn’t American. What I do know is that Canada took Lafreniere, Byfield, Drysdale, and Mercer to the tournament last year, and won. Lafreniere and Drysdale played big roles. Finland won the year before with Kakko, Lundell, and Heinola in big roles.

You keep making this point that our best underage players aren’t good enough. I could see the argument they shouldn’t be on the team if we pick our absolute best players. If some combination of Struble, Skinner, Powell, Fensore, even Miller, were here over McDonald, Vlasic, even Faber, you could convince me someone like Hughes is only somewhere in that pack of players with a chance to make the camp. When, at minimum, we are taking someone like Faber, and potentially a worse player like Vlasic or McDonald, you cannot convince me Hughes or other draft eligibles, even 2022 guys shouldn’t be in discussion.

And there’s an argument to be made that there’s a long recent history of teams winning because they supplemented their best players with top younger kids who made key contributions. You are advocating the Torts at the WCH strategy where we take bad grinders and that wins out over pure skill. Too bad that the people at USAH agree with this bad strategy because we have all these good players like Knight, York, Zegras, Turcotte, Caufield, Sanderson, Thrun, Robertson, Kaliyev, Robertson, amongst others, and a team like Finland or Sweden or Russia with worse natural talent will probably finish better than us with contributions from key younger players.

Hughes isn't better than Vlasic today...only seen McDonald a few times so not going to assess that. Long term Hughes is absolutely a better prospect but tournament is in a month not a year. The Vlasic pick shows me Leaman wants some defenseman to actually play defense which fits his system. You can only have so many offensive dman on a team. I think you are underestimating some players from the 02' class - look around at college hockey and those players who went under the radar last year for the NTDP are having some pretty impressive starts. Canada took those players as under agers last year and and won because Lafreniere who is an 01 anyways. The rest of those you mentioned weren't a factor including Byfield who went #3 overall.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I think you need to go watch Vlasic play, and not be the champion of all these very marginal prospects, that could easily have their spots taken by future NHL stars that’ll be picked in 2021 and 2022.

And if I’m wrong, where is our success with your preferred strategy?

It’s a shame people with your mindset are running USAH.

 

[Jaykay]

That’s a good point, but how much does Faber deserve to play? He’s really only in most of our projected teams because he’s not Vlasic or McDonald. I think this is one of these years where the 7D, hopefully Faber, doesn’t see the ice, unless there’s an injury, suspension or long penalty for a defensemen.

Faber should be able to hold his own, at least. He has some weaknesses but none that should make him look totally out of place if you're just using him on the PK and third pair. He just needs to not be noticeable this year and I think he's very capable of that.

 

[Gopher13]

I think you need to go watch Vlasic play, and not be the champion of all these very marginal prospects, that could easily have their spots taken by future NHL stars that’ll be picked in 2021 and 2022.

And if I’m wrong, where is our success with your preferred strategy?

It’s a shame people with your mindset are running USAH.

NHL Stars in 5 years...Vlasic is a better player TODAY. You get that right? Bring a double under ager to ride the pine - great call. You are building the best team to win now not some NHL dynasty team.

 

[JiggsNY]

USA Hockey makes these decisions all the time, and we have these arguments all the time. The coaches change but it's always the same philosophy. I don't know what it will take to change its so frustrating. Our current strategy yields a good result once every several years and thats good enough for USAH to not make changes, but we have the talent that we should be getting good results far more often.

Even if for the sake of argument, underagers are of similar current skill value as the bottom 6 grinder types we bring, there is more value in bringing the underagers for the experience and leadership they gain for the following year. Give me the high skill but possibly raw underagers every time over the "grit" guys. And for the love of good do not bring these grit players and play them in the top 6.

Every nation except us does it. The stereotypical USA grinder philosophy worked for a time when we couldnt compete pound for pound in the skill department, But now we can and they still insist on using an inferior strategy. That does not work in best on best, take your skill.

 

[themelkman]

Kinda weird the bottom six might be all B names

 

[De Montreal]

Kinda weird the bottom six might be all B names

Bad omen if you ask me