WC: 2021 Switzerland roster talk

Derbon99

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Praplan and rod are below par
I was expecting more from hischier and Meier to a lesser extent
Hoffman corvi ambuhl and the energy line are top guys during this wc
I like the defensemen especially siegenthaler
Moser is great especially when you think about his age / same for geisser to a lesser extent who was already top during the playoff
 

jonas2244

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Yeah, Hischier could do better. But he's still good and I wouldn't call that worrying. He wins a lot of Bullies, fights for every puck and is a leader on and off-ice. When the line doesn't click it's not only his fault.

I also don't like that the first PP-unit has no natural center. Andrighetto looses a lot of bullies and Bully-wins would be quite important for a PP.
 

stv11

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I think you mean faceoffs, the bullies would be Rod and Scherwey :D

Hischier is ok but could play better, Meier too. The worst part with Hischier is that no one really built any kind of chemistry with him (same in 2019 really). Corvi and Hofmann are great together, I'm really surprised after it didn't work too well in 2018 (at both tournaments).

Geisser is really impressive, I'd take him to the Olympics based on his current form. Loeffel is also playing better than I expected.
 

jonas2244

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Hehe, yes, Bullies is Swiss-German-English I guess. :D

Hischier - Fiala didn't look that bad if I remember correctly. I also think that Hischier - Ambühl looks promising but they'd need another good wing and I currently don't see a good option with the current roster. The speed of Marco Lehmann would been amazing there. :)
 

Speyer

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Hischier hasnt been the same player since he got shot in the head with Subbans Slapshot. He seems weaker on his skates, not as elusive and his puck protection seems not on par either. I still liked him defensively though so far, he has often been able to retreive the puck in our zone and make an inteligent play to instigate the transition. He was also good at the dot as Jonas has already mentioned. Nico had great chemistry with Fiala at the last WC wich isnt the case this year with any of the linemates Fischer tried even though he connected nicely with Meier a couple of times. He was also somewhat unlucky so far this tournament and could have a few more points. I still hope Fischer tries to shake up the lines and give him some different wingers I really don't see much chemistry there. Hofmann for example could work great but then you have to break up our best line. I feel like he could benefit from some more physical wingers since he seems to have lost his edge in that regard a bit since the last injury. Maybe Scherwey would be worth a try. That would mean to break up the fourth line but whats the harm to test it agaisnt England?
 

stv11

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Herzog could be worth a try with Hischier.

And I didn't find his chemistry with Fiala particularly good in 2019, it was just a case of your two best players putting up points against weaker teams. Fiala worked much better with Corvi and Niederreiter in 2018.
 

Derbon99

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The line Nico kura Ambühl was not good against Belarus
After a couple of promising games they look lost
The other looked pretty good
 

WeberStreit

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If Henrik Tömmernäs and Carl Klingberg where swiss, would they make this team?
Yes. Tömmernes played amazing playoffs and had a great season in Geneva. He would surely make the team.
Klingberg would be a lock too. We always have a small team, so a big goal scoring forward would be great.
 
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jonas2244

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And with a win tomorrow it's very probably spot 2 (if RUS wins one point vs. BLR).

Means Germany, Latvia or Canada.
 

Derbon99

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Not scared about the potential opponents for the quarter
Of course I would rather avoid Canada even this weak one
 

Speyer

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Solid win but letting GB score three goals is a bit much even if Kirk has the hot hand right now. Definitely some bad turnovers this game especially by Corvi that cannot be repeated in the quarters. Offensively the fourth line was amzaing especially Bertschy and Scherwey who are the biggest positive surprises of the WC for Switzerland. The Hischier line seemed very much improved compared to the last few games. Nico had probably his best game so far and Kurashev was good to. I would probably prefer Meier over Herzog as the right wing going forward though. On D I really liked Moser and Siegentaler but Atalo looked kinda slow again and Untersander didnt impress either. I would seriously consider scratching Atalo for the quarters if you look at how some of the other dmen, even Heldner, have played so far.

As for the opponent in the quarters I wouldnt mind Germany. It has been a while since we played them in a game that mattered and its quite a fun rivalry between our two countries.
 

stv11

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I wold definitely play the Frick-Heldner pair, but I'd scratch Müller (two unnecessary penalties today, nowhere close to the player he was in 2018), Loeffel (didn't even attempt to defend on the 1st and 3rd goals) and Siegenthaler (you know possession is lost when the puck ends up on his stick).

Not sure about the forward lines, so many disappointing players. I'm not optimistic about the quarterfinal, this game was a missed opportunity to gain some momentum, even though showing up for 10 minutes was enough for an easy win.
 

jonas2244

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I wouldn't overestimate such games. You probably can't win mucht there beside 3 points. Even a 7-0 or something wouldn't have built a momentum I think. It's a new game and the games on the weekend weren't that bad. I would rather have played Latvia, but Germany has a solid team but is no Powerhouse. They have a good goalkeeper and are blocking shots as hell and have some nice forwards but anyhow are not able to constantly score.
 

jonas2244

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Full roster on the ice today for practice. So I guess Simion will be back tomorrow.
 

Jon Riley

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I wold definitely play the Frick-Heldner pair, but I'd scratch Müller (two unnecessary penalties today, nowhere close to the player he was in 2018), Loeffel (didn't even attempt to defend on the 1st and 3rd goals) and Siegenthaler (you know possession is lost when the puck ends up on his stick).

Not sure about the forward lines, so many disappointing players. I'm not optimistic about the quarterfinal, this game was a missed opportunity to gain some momentum, even though showing up for 10 minutes was enough for an easy win.
I'd keep Rod and Müller far away from the ice, coming to the elimination round taking stupid penalties is not a risk that is worth taking. Either they learn to play smarter like Scherwey did (even though it took basically his whole career for him to learn) or they are a liability. Praplan is probably not up to the task either. Simion depends on how healthy he is. He does not bring much, but the line with Hofmann and Corvi works great when he is in, so for sure he is doing something right there.
I doubt Siegenthaler will be scratched, he has been quite solid despite his sub-par puck handling.
The only thing I know for sure is that Corvi-Hofmann and Baertschy- Scherwey have to play together, the rest can be open to a bit of shuffle since no combination have been particularly exceptional.
I'd probably put Meier back with Hischier. Not great chemistry there, but Meier is deadly if he does not have to drive the play.
 

Speyer

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Well this was a disappointing loss wich made it a disappointing tournament in general. Loosing against a team like Germany is no shame, but the way Switzerland gave the game away was just so unnecessary. They played pretty cleverly until the second goal but then tried for some reason to hold on to the lead and just play defensively with the occasional counter rush. And then it seemed like they just wanted not to loose the game in overtime instead of winning it. Before the tournament and after the first two games a lot of experts talked about how hot this team is for gold but yesterday they sure didn't play like this. This makes me ask myself where Fischers highly touted motivational skills were yesterday.

Now I am not in favor of putting the blame soley on Fischer as a scapegoat but he did make some significant mistakes. My main issue, besides the passivity yesterday, is that except for a few games against lesser teams only the Bertschy and the Corvi line had decent chemistry. Sure guys like Hischier, Meier and Andrighetto were not in the best shape of their careers but Fischers line composition made them even less effective than necessary. Why would he pair Hischier, whose playing style demands wingers who can put the puck to net and support him in puck battles, with two physically weak playmaking wingers in Ambühl and Kurashev? The Vermin line had similar problems. I dont really see why Fischer didnt even try to break up the lines that worked in one of the low stakes games. Why not at least try lets say Corvi with Meier or Hofmann with Nico?

At the end of the day I also find it noticeable that this is the third time Fischers team has choked in a win or loose situation in the last three years (not counting 2020 for obvious reasons). Now I am not saying he has to go now, especially since there are probably no better alternatives who want the job, but I also don't think the federation should hold onto him indefinitely just for that one silver medal. In his five other tournaments as head coach he couldn't get his team past the quarter finals despite having the best players the country has ever produced at his disposal. If you look at what the Finns have achieved in that timeframe, often with significantly worse rosters than we had, it kinda makes you wonder...
 
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Jon Riley

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That is pretty much where I am at the moment. There are a lot of things that I like about Fischer's job, he manage to move rather successfully to a style of play that is actually nice to look at, produces scoring chances against every opponent and it's no afraid to play to win even against big teams. He took some questionable decisions creating the rosters but normally the people he relies on are rarely big disappointments.
On the other side it seems that something always fall short. Whether it is the special teams (PP and to a minor extent PK were very good this year, but it has not always been the case) or the chemistry of the most talented players like this year. I do not know if it's on the players or if it's because of his instructions, but it seems to me that come the elimination round they revert to the "old swiss national team game play" without really having a team build for tight defense anymore. If you end up playing like you have a team full of Schäppi, it's better if you have a Schäppi.
Also, why scratching Geisser, for example? Belief that more experienced players are a safer choice? Too bad Geisser, together with Diaz and Moser, have been the most steady and reliable back, for sure much better than Siegenthaler and Müller.
I think there is something that has to change, not necessarily Fischer, but for sure in the coaching team.
 
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stv11

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I've been wanting to reply to that post since it was posted, but I had a too much of a hard time stomaching that loss. I guess it will take me hoping on a plane to Finland 11 months from now to forget about it. Two years of waiting for something to erase those memories of Severson just to get it again...

Well this was a disappointing loss wich made it a disappointing tournament in general. Loosing against a team like Germany is no shame, but the way Switzerland gave the game away was just so unnecessary. They played pretty cleverly until the second goal but then tried for some reason to hold on to the lead and just play defensively with the occasional counter rush. And then it seemed like they just wanted not to loose the game in overtime instead of winning it. Before the tournament and after the first two games a lot of experts talked about how hot this team is for gold but yesterday they sure didn't play like this. This makes me ask myself where Fischers highly touted motivational skills were yesterday.

I pretty much agree with those points. It's not the first time that Switzerland is being put under pressure and risks allowing a late equaliser. During the two silver medal runs it happened several time (opening game and quarterfinal in 2013, quartefinal and semifinal in 2018), plus of course in 2019 against Canada, though that one can be put on a more talented team relentlessly forechecking a defense missing key players. No such excuse against Germany, they forechecked well but Switzerland should have played a better puck possession game and not played so passively.

Now I am not in favor of putting the blame soley on Fischer as a scapegoat but he did make some significant mistakes. My main issue, besides the passivity yesterday, is that except for a few games against lesser teams only the Bertschy and the Corvi line had decent chemistry. Sure guys like Hischier, Meier and Andrighetto were not in the best shape of their careers but Fischers line composition made them even less effective than necessary. Why would he pair Hischier, whose playing style demands wingers who can put the puck to net and support him in puck battles, with two physically weak playmaking wingers in Ambühl and Kurashev? The Vermin line had similar problems. I dont really see why Fischer didnt even try to break up the lines that worked in one of the low stakes games. Why not at least try lets say Corvi with Meier or Hofmann with Nico?

This works both ways, the Corvi and Bertschy lines worked well, so there was some risk in breaking them up. Meier and Andrighetto not playing as well as they could made the task difficult, and you can argue that they slowed down Hischier early in the tournament, and that he played his best games with Ambühl and Kurashev, although it was probably more him getting in better shape than chemistry. Some other combinations could have been tried, but when the players don't perform it's hard to mask it by mixing the lineup. Player selection made sense too, Nyffeler and Heldner are the only ones I complained about before the tournament, but I have to admit that Heldner was surpringly good. Regarding lineups, I'd have replaced Siegenthaler with a better puck handler, that turnover on the first goal was terrible. And I think that Switzerland lost the game when they let Germany back in late in the 2nd period, had they played these last 5 minutes like the first 15 Germany wouldn't have been able to come back.

At the end of the day I also find it noticeable that this is the third time Fischers team has choked in a win or loose situation in the last three years (not counting 2020 for obvious reasons). Now I am not saying he has to go now, especially since there are probably no better alternatives who want the job, but I also don't think the federation should hold onto him indefinitely just for that one silver medal. In his five other tournaments as head coach he couldn't get his team past the quarter finals despite having the best players the country has ever produced at his disposal. If you look at what the Finns have achieved in that timeframe, often with significantly worse rosters than we had, it kinda makes you wonder...

I can't really agree with you about that part. 2018 was definitely not a choke, the game was close for 40 minutes but Sweden dominated the third period and overtime and deservedly won that game and that tournament. 2018 Sweden is one of the best WC team in recent memory, probably only behind 2015 Canada and 2008 Russia, losing a close game to that team is not choking. In 2019, Canada had a much better roster than Switzerland and put a lot of pressure on a defense not equipped to deal with it. The circumstances hurt, but that loss is not a choke either. Now 2021 is much worse as it wasn't an opponent of that quality, and after Switzerland managed to get 12 points against the four "lesser" teams in both 2018 and 2019 (no small feat, before that it only happened in 2013), it seemed that we finally had reached the point where we'd be past those disappointing losses.

Regarding Fischer, I've always found a lot of criticisms unfair. I can definitely appreciate his work in Lugano, where he was able to sold his project to the point that players like Brunner or Walker, who where both highly sought after at the time, were signed before any other team had a chance to react, where he always had the guts to take difficult decisions that paid off long term, like offloading his top scorer (Domenichelli) when the team was struggling to put the puck in because he didn't suit the style of play, or starting a 19 year old Merzliking over two capable NL goalies, and finally, he built a team that ended up winning 5 playoff series between 2016 and 2018. His biggest weakness was his tactics, as he played naively offensive hockey and ended up beaten in the playoffs by more pragmatic and result oriented teams.

I think he's the right national team coach, and wouldn't hesitate to sign him long term. Those communication, motivational and team building qualities are as important as in game coaching for a national team coach. NHL players are happy to jump on a plane as soon as they are available, and few if any NL player reject selection, even those who had conflicts earlier like Fiala or Herzog, and I think Fischer communication skills play a big part in that. He's also shown that he's not afraid to cut underperforming players or take someone who just happens to perform well at the right time. And things got a lot better tactically since Albelin joined. Plus, as you mentioned, I can't think of anyone who would do better.

Looking at his performances tournament by tournament, 2016 was poor. It was Fischer's Lugano, playing naively offensive and allowing tons of 2 on 1s and 3 on 1s. On the other hand, it was a really weak roster (Trachsler, Walser, Schäppi, Walker center depth) and there was some bad luck involved (4 posts and Berra allowing a once in a lifetime goal vs Kazakhstan, Jerabek's terrible performance having Switzerland shorthanded for the entire third period vs Russia, Denmark lucking out with two points vs Czech Republic). 2017 was an excellent tournament, the roster was underwhelming (many newcomers, Bärtschi and Andrighetto injured in the last regular season game) but managed to play great hockey and finished 2nd in the group stage. The simply didn't have the player material to beat a top team in an elimination game. The only downside was being taken to OT by Slovenia, as the loss against France was very unlucky. The Olympics were a big disappointment, still not sure what happened there. Fischer probably made the mistake of counting too much on the 2017 team and many players underperformed, though it must be said that the tournament has a really stupid format, with 3 games played pretty much for nothing followed by a do or die one. Then there are the last three WC, which I have mentioned already. Playing in the quarterfinals for four consecutive tournaments had never happened before, that's some achievement even if he had better players than previous coaches (the much hyped Simpson had two top 8 finish in 6 tournaments, and had some poor playoff showings during his time at ZSC). He managed to built strong enough rosters to win against the so called weaker teams and was two lucky bounces away from three semifinal appearances, but more importantly, he gave this team a clear identity, an ambitious style of play and an attitude that makes it possible to win any game. I can't think of any other coach that would do better.

Finally a quick word on Finland. What they did in 2019 is one of the biggest upset in international hockey and shouldn't be used as a benchmark. Looking at their previous tournaments during the Fischer era, in 2016 they won a silver medal with a very talented roster, in 2017 they were pretty poor and lucked out by playing a weaker American team in the quarterfinals, and in 2018 they lost three games against arguably weaker opposition with their most talented roster ever. A clear case of a talented team that lacked experience to deal with setbacks. Overall, I wouldn't say they achieved more with significantly worse rosters outside of a once in a lifetime upset in 2019.
 
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Speyer

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Yeah I was still quite upset after the loss so my criticism on Fischier was maybe a bit overstated but overall I still stand by my arguments.


This works both ways, the Corvi and Bertschy lines worked well, so there was some risk in breaking them up. Meier and Andrighetto not playing as well as they could made the task difficult, and you can argue that they slowed down Hischier early in the tournament, and that he played his best games with Ambühl and Kurashev, although it was probably more him getting in better shape than chemistry. Some other combinations could have been tried, but when the players don't perform it's hard to mask it by mixing the lineup. Player selection made sense too, Nyffeler and Heldner are the only ones I complained about before the tournament, but I have to admit that Heldner was surpringly good. Regarding lineups, I'd have replaced Siegenthaler with a better puck handler, that turnover on the first goal was terrible. And I think that Switzerland lost the game when they let Germany back in late in the 2nd period, had they played these last 5 minutes like the first 15 Germany wouldn't have been able to come back.


Its impossible to know if the team would have been better or worse by breaking up the lines. Maybe it would have improved the overall performance, maybe not. There were some low stakes games like against Great Britain for exable where it wouldnt have been risky at all to try it out. I also dont think Hischier got better as the tournament went along. His best game was probably the first one against the Czechs or the second one against Denmark. He may have looked the best against GB but the quality of this team is so much lower than, lets say the Czechs, so I wouldnt even count it. The thing is that Hischier is a player who engages a lot in puck battles in the corners and behind the net and needs to be supported in that regard. He also needs wingers who can score on his passes of the rush or from behind the net and put the puck towards the net in general so that he can lurk for rebounds or deflections, wich is basically his biggest offensive skill. Kurashev and Ambühl are both not great in puck battles and below average shooters (Kurashev has a good release but poor shot selection) and therefore not suitable to play with Nico. In my oppinion it should be a priority to put your (under normal circusatances) best forwards in a position to suceed in a WC tournament and Fischer wasnt able to do that with both Meier and Hischier this year.

I can't really agree with you about that part. 2018 was definitely not a choke, the game was close for 40 minutes but Sweden dominated the third period and overtime and deservedly won that game and that tournament. 2018 Sweden is one of the best WC team in recent memory, probably only behind 2015 Canada and 2008 Russia, losing a close game to that team is not choking. In 2019, Canada had a much better roster than Switzerland and put a lot of pressure on a defense not equipped to deal with it. The circumstances hurt, but that loss is not a choke either. Now 2021 is much worse as it wasn't an opponent of that quality, and after Switzerland managed to get 12 points against the four "lesser" teams in both 2018 and 2019 (no small feat, before that it only happened in 2013), it seemed that we finally had reached the point where we'd be past those disappointing losses.


In 2018 I was refering to the olympic games where we lost against the Germans in overtime i believe. I do consider this a choke since it was a 1:1 game and we had a long PP in the third period but werent able to score on it. Also in 2019 Canada didnt have a "much better roster" than we did. Yes it was better than this years team but probably still worse than most years without any superstars as Mark Stone was their best player. Overall it was a far cry from their all star rosters form 2015-2017. Its also not just that we lost in general but that the team tried to hold on to the one goal lead in the last period only defending just like against the germans. Yes Canadas pressure was heavy but the Swiss team sure helped them to build momentum by giving up any offensive attempt way to early. The Overtime was also very similar to this year with to much focus on not loosing, instead of trying to win.


Regarding Fischer, I've always found a lot of criticisms unfair. I can definitely appreciate his work in Lugano, where he was able to sold his project to the point that players like Brunner or Walker, who where both highly sought after at the time, were signed before any other team had a chance to react, where he always had the guts to take difficult decisions that paid off long term, like offloading his top scorer (Domenichelli) when the team was struggling to put the puck in because he didn't suit the style of play, or starting a 19 year old Merzliking over two capable NL goalies, and finally, he built a team that ended up winning 5 playoff series between 2016 and 2018. His biggest weakness was his tactics, as he played naively offensive hockey and ended up beaten in the playoffs by more pragmatic and result oriented teams.


Fischer sure has his strengths you have listed aspects such as his overall philosophy on speed based hockey wich fits our players very well or his accountablity or communication skills. However he doesnt seem to be a coach that is able to outcoach an opposing team. In all three aforementioned games he didnt seem to be able to give the right impulses when things were going south. It just always feels like if his game plan is working we are going to win the game. However if this is not the case, he seldom seems to be able to react to it accordingly and turn the game around. The losses agaisnt Sweden, Germany and to a lesser degree Russia this year are textbook examples to that. At this years U20 WC where he was the de facto head coach nothing seemed to work for the swiss team from the get go and Fischer wasnt able to improve even one of the many problems the team had. I also question his ability to learn from his mistakes as the exists from the OG 2018, WC 2019 and WC 2021 have all been quite similar. Fischer just said in an interview that the loss agianst the Germans will be a lesson for the team but he should have learned this lesson already years ago. As I said there is probably no better alternative to Fischer right now but his performance definitely doesnt merit a longtime contract. And if someone like Luca Cereda or Dan Tanges would be willing to take over the team long term I would probably prefer it honestly despite the break of continuity that this would entail.

Finally a quick word on Finland. What they did in 2019 is one of the biggest upset in international hockey and shouldn't be used as a benchmark. Looking at their previous tournaments during the Fischer era, in 2016 they won a silver medal with a very talented roster, in 2017 they were pretty poor and lucked out by playing a weaker American team in the quarterfinals, and in 2018 they lost three games against arguably weaker opposition with their most talented roster ever. A clear case of a talented team that lacked experience to deal with setbacks. Overall, I wouldn't say they achieved more with significantly worse rosters outside of a once in a lifetime upset in 2019.

Finland just made the finals again with an (arguably) even weaker roster than in 2019. Its also not like upsets like this are completly unheard of otherwise (Germany Olympics 2018, Switzerland 2013, Czech Repblic 2010, Slovakia 2012/2003/2002). Finlands other rosters in the Fischer era were proably a bit better than the average swiss roster or about on par with lets say the 2018/2019 teams. Finland has 3 gold/silver medals in that timeframe compared to our lone silver medal. On top of that they only lost once in the quarterfinals while we only went once beyond that stage. They also perfomed slightly better at the Olympics even though this is neglectible since they played South Korea in the quarters there. But overall. they achieved significantly more during the Fischer era with (on average) about even talent than we did.
 
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Name Nameless

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As a Coyote-fan, I wonder why Nussbaumer fell off the radar here?
 

Speyer

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As a Coyote-fan, I wonder why Nussbaumer fell off the radar here?

I wouldnt say he fell of the radar. The reason he didnt make the WC is that he isnt quite in the absolute top tier of Swiss NL forwards yet. The fact that his play exploded only in the second half of the season was probably also a factor. There were just alternatives that were more proven. He should be a canditate next year though.
 
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