Speculation: 2021 Sharks Offseason Roster Discussion part IV

[Pinkfloyd]

Just shouting thoughts out loud for a minute... would there be any interest in a deal with Boston around Burns / Coyle and the rights to Brandon Carlo?

Burns, 4 years at 8m left.
Coyle, 5 years at 5.25m left,
Carlo RFA, ~3.5m/4m per

While I will openly admit I don't think Coyle is worth that contract, he'd be a decent middle six C for us, and Carlo is exactly the type of Dman we could do with adding, good on the PK and might open a path to Mr Merkley for become EK's protégé. Carlo's injuries have been an issue that dampen his value because of the inconsistency. I feel he would be worth a punt.

Obviously I haven't gone into the idea of retentions etc as that's not my bag, but wondered what impressions were of the core?

Carlo played their 2nd most minutes in the playoffs. I don't know if they're willing to give up on him yet when they probably need to simply add a blue liner. I think there's a deal to be made with Boston but it's probably for Simek rather than Burns since McAvoy and Carlo are both on the right side that they should lean on moving forward.

 

[Le Rosbeef]

Carlo played their 2nd most minutes in the playoffs. I don't know if they're willing to give up on him yet when they probably need to simply add a blue liner. I think there's a deal to be made with Boston but it's probably for Simek rather than Burns since McAvoy and Carlo are both on the right side that they should lean on moving forward.

Maybe it's wishful thinking for me - I know an avid Bruins fan of nearly 40 years and he thinks Carlo's time might be done because he's not consistently healthy enough. I was slightly surprised but if there was something to explore, I'd be all over it. Would help with our defensive balance on the right.

 

[Le Rosbeef]

Just shouting thoughts out loud for a minute... would there be any interest in a deal with Boston around Burns / Coyle and the rights to Brandon Carlo?

Burns, 4 years at 8m left.
Coyle, 5 years at 5.25m left,
Carlo RFA, ~3.5m/4m per

While I will openly admit I don't think Coyle is worth that contract, he'd be a decent middle six C for us, and Carlo is exactly the type of Dman we could do with adding, good on the PK and might open a path for Mr Merkley to become EK's protégé. Carlo's injuries have been an issue that dampen his value because of the inconsistency. I feel he would be worth a punt.

Obviously I haven't gone into the idea of retentions etc as that's not my bag, but wondered what impressions were of the core?

I swear to goodness, this tweet came out 5 minutes after my original post...

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Maybe it's wishful thinking for me - I know an avid Bruins fan of nearly 40 years and he thinks Carlo's time might be done because he's not consistently healthy enough. I was slightly surprised but if there was something to explore, I'd be all over it. Would help with our defensive balance on the right.

I suppose it may depend on how Boston feels about him and that QO. You have to give him a 3.5 mil QO to retain his rights otherwise he's going to free agency. If they're over him, maybe they can swing a deal where we swap RFA's with Donato going their way for Carlo but who knows? Failing that, if they cut him to UFA, he'd be a good guy to go after but I'm sure he'd generate plenty of interest.

 

[Le Rosbeef]

I suppose it may depend on how Boston feels about him and that QO. You have to give him a 3.5 mil QO to retain his rights otherwise he's going to free agency. If they're over him, maybe they can swing a deal where we swap RFA's with Donato going their way for Carlo but who knows? Failing that, if they cut him to UFA, he'd be a good guy to go after but I'm sure he'd generate plenty of interest.

Apparently he's just re-signed!

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

Just shouting thoughts out loud for a minute... would there be any interest in a deal with Boston around Burns / Coyle and the rights to Brandon Carlo?

Burns, 4 years at 8m left.
Coyle, 5 years at 5.25m left,
Carlo RFA, ~3.5m/4m per

While I will openly admit I don't think Coyle is worth that contract, he'd be a decent middle six C for us, and Carlo is exactly the type of Dman we could do with adding, good on the PK and might open a path for Mr Merkley to become EK's protégé. Carlo's injuries have been an issue that dampen his value because of the inconsistency. I feel he would be worth a punt.

Obviously I haven't gone into the idea of retentions etc as that's not my bag, but wondered what impressions were of the core?

I would do that in a heartbeat

 

[STL Shark]

Carlo played their 2nd most minutes in the playoffs. I don't know if they're willing to give up on him yet when they probably need to simply add a blue liner. I think there's a deal to be made with Boston but it's probably for Simek rather than Burns since McAvoy and Carlo are both on the right side that they should lean on moving forward.

Yeah, Simek would seem to fit as a big physical Boston type presence, but who knows if the price will be too high on the cap hit and they have young guys like Zboril probably still needing a spot. My guess is they're a big player for Suter on FA Day to pair with McAvoy or Carlo on the left side with Grzelyck on the other top 4 pairing.

With the Carlo re-signing, started looking into his usage/partner in Boston last season, Mike Reilly. Not a sexy name, but I was shocked at how good Reilly was for them on the 2nd pair last year after they traded for him and then in Ottawa prior to the trade. Analytically, he has been insanely good the past couple years and is a guy that I would love to see DW try and sign to replace a Simek or Vlasic as a 4/5 swing guy on the 2nd or 3rd pairing.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Apparently he's just re-signed!

Nice coincidence, right? I still think we can send Simek there provided Seattle doesn't take him. Maybe if Kane needs to be moved, we could do a deal with Boston for Coyle and DeBrusk but that seems harder to imagine.

 

[Le Rosbeef]

Nice coincidence, right? I still think we can send Simek there provided Seattle doesn't take him. Maybe if Kane needs to be moved, we could do a deal with Boston for Coyle and DeBrusk but that seems harder to imagine.

6 years at 4.1m could be a steal!

 

[OffSydes]

I swear to goodness, this tweet came out 5 minutes after my original post...

What are your thoughts on a Vlasic and Jones buyout or trade?

 

[Le Rosbeef]

What are your thoughts on a Vlasic and Jones buyout or trade?

I think we're stuck with MEV. If he could be traded, I'd be all for it but who would take him? His contract buyout isn't pleasant either. Let's hope he bounces back to become the best 3rd pair LD in the league

Jones, regrettably I think they probably have to buy him out. The savings make it worthwhile over the next 3 years - 7.5m ish off the cap. The 1,6m for the following 3 seasons isn't a huge issue, imo.

 

[Friday]

I think we're stuck with MEV. If he could be traded, I'd be all for it but who would take him? His contract buyout isn't pleasant either. Let's hope he bounces back to become the best 3rd pair LD in the league

Jones, regrettably I think they probably have to buy him out. The savings make it worthwhile over the next 3 years - 7.5m ish off the cap. The 1,6m for the following 3 seasons isn't a huge issue, imo.

There is creative ways if the Sharks retain 1/2 of his salary im sure more than a few teams would be interested. MEV at 3.5M doesnt sound so bad. Doubt he wants to leave but there is ways haha

 

[Cas]

There is creative ways if the Sharks retain 1/2 of his salary im sure more than a few teams would be interested. MEV at 3.5M doesnt sound so bad. Doubt he wants to leave but there is ways haha

What's the value of an aging bottom-pairing defenseman on the free agent market? $1 million for one year? Vlasic is still horribly overpaid at 50% retention (which I would do if I could, as it's still better than a buyout) and for stupid term, too. Can't see any trade value there as he should be easily replaceable on the free agent market (maybe the replacement isn't as good in 21-22, but he comes with far less risk).

 

[Pinkfloyd]

There is creative ways if the Sharks retain 1/2 of his salary im sure more than a few teams would be interested. MEV at 3.5M doesnt sound so bad. Doubt he wants to leave but there is ways haha

That if is highly unlikely given nobody has retained anyone with term for more than 1.5 mil thus far. I can't see them retaining more than twice that for five seasons. As long as Vlasic is competent in the 3rd pairing role, they will probably keep him since the cost to get rid of him is likely very exorbitant. They can bury Vlasic after two more seasons. They can probably trade him with two years left to go after they pay his bonus. And since they don't have anyone to worry about protecting at this stage, there's no real reason to buy him out now. If they can't find a deal where they're trading roster players to remove him and taking an acceptable level of cap dumps back in the process, they pretty much just have to ride it out. Until the Sharks have talent that would actually push Vlasic out of the lineup and he's still doing well enough for the role, they will keep him. That's why we gotta hope that two of Hatakka, Kniazev, Merkley, and Pasichnuk actually make strides to be regular NHL'ers.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Having said that, I would trade Vlasic for Duchene in a heartbeat if given the chance. lol

 

[OrrNumber4]

Sharks can only hold salary on 3 transactions. It would chap to pay Vlasic 3.5 mil for many years to not play for SJS.

 

[DisbeliefInDW]

Having said that, I would trade Vlasic for Duchene in a heartbeat if given the chance. lol

Sharks aren't getting Seattle to take a contract. The players on bad contracts on the Sharks aren't good AND have a bad contract. If Seattle can get to the cap floor by getting guys like Voracek and Duchene, guys who aren't great but still can somewhat play, possibly in addition to what they get if either team trades something as an incentive to take them, instead of taking a bad Sharks player, they're gonna go the first route. Only hopes of dumping those contracts is a hockey trade.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Sharks aren't getting Seattle to take a contract. The players on bad contracts on the Sharks aren't good AND have a bad contract. If Seattle can get to the cap floor by getting guys like Voracek and Duchene, guys who aren't great but still can somewhat play, possibly in addition to what they get if either team trades something as an incentive to take them, instead of taking a bad Sharks player, they're gonna go the first route. Only hopes of dumping those contracts is a hockey trade.

Duchene can somewhat play like Vlasic can still somewhat play. I'm not making a swap of Vlasic for Duchene because I want Seattle to take Duchene. If they did, great but I'd rather have the flexibility of Duchene's contract even with the increased cap hit over Vlasic's. Both buyouts are nasty but Duchene can address 3C in the short term and can be moved much easier than Vlasic since he only has a seven team no-trade list rather than a three team trade list.

 

[DisbeliefInDW]

Duchene can somewhat play like Vlasic can still somewhat play. I'm not making a swap of Vlasic for Duchene because I want Seattle to take Duchene. If they did, great but I'd rather have the flexibility of Duchene's contract even with the increased cap hit over Vlasic's. Both buyouts are nasty but Duchene can address 3C in the short term and can be moved much easier than Vlasic since he only has a seven trade no-trade list rather than a three team trade list.

Oh I absolutely do that trade if I'm starting fresh, and I get what you're saying, but the last thing the Sharks need to do is to try and swap bad contracts. Thats why I've never understood anything involving Skinner either. CGY and EDM tried that and it failed like the original contracts.

Both could definitely rebound into solid players, but you end up just playing "lesser of two shits". The goal should just be to find a way to dump Vlasic straight up (whether trade and lower AAV contract coming back or suck up a buyout)

 

[Hodge]

It was such an inexplicable decision to give Vlasic a NMC on top of the money and term. Even if you could work out a trade for Duchene or Skinner he's probably vetoing it.

Just looked it up and the only NHL players Vlasic's agent represents are him and Demers. That contract alone should have earned him way more clients by now.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Oh I absolutely do that trade if I'm starting fresh, and I get what you're saying, but the last thing the Sharks need to do is to try and swap bad contracts. Thats why I've never understood anything involving Skinner either. CGY and EDM tried that and it failed like the original contracts.

Both could definitely rebound into solid players, but you end up just playing "lesser of two shits". The goal should just be to find a way to dump Vlasic straight up (whether trade and lower AAV contract coming back or suck up a buyout)

Skinner doesn't make sense because it's a worse contract than Vlasic's. You get less flexibility and you take the higher cap hit with an extra year for a player in a worse position in terms of value. Duchene can plug a spot they want to address while giving them the flexibility to either move on from him when Bordeleau is ready or move him to wing if they end up moving others out that are able to get them value they want. Plus, the odds of Duchene bouncing back are higher than Vlasic's.

 

[landshark]

Thank you so much for this! Awesome of you to find this!

So SJ is 20th... Some team below them are likely only there because they weren't competitive at the time. This was a few years ago when the Sharks were still "good" and coming off their conference finals appearance. That tells me that SJ taxes and cost of living are a real detriment to signing UFAs and a big reason why the Sharks never seem to get a home town discount with their guys. All 3 California teams in the lower 1/3. Locations SJ is better than are mostly places no one in their right mind would want to live. Vancouver is likely to climb that list as the become more competitive. Beautiful city. Seattle probably already ranks higher than SJ IMO.

Happy to help!

One thing to keep in mind is this isn't a survey of NHL players. It's peeps making some model taking a few factors like taxes and weather into consideration.


Also, Jumbo took hometown discount(s) to re-sign with the Sharks during his prime, if memory serves.

I did find a survey: NHL player poll: Most dreaded road trip, best dressing room, Gritty fatigue

Regarding Winnipeg specifically...

There's some stuff in there about it being boring, dirty and cold. Surprisingly enough no one mentioned their lack of wifi...

7. Which road city do you dread the most?

Winnipeg: 42%
Buffalo: 34%
Edmonton: 10%
Calgary: 4%
Ottawa: 4%
Carolina [Raleigh, N.C.]: 4%
Columbus: 2%

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

It was such an inexplicable decision to give Vlasic a NMC on top of the money and term. Even if you could work out a trade for Duchene or Skinner he's probably vetoing it.

Just looked it up and the only NHL players Vlasic's agent represents are him and Demers. That contract alone should have earned him way more clients by now.

Considering Vlasic's personality I bet that's what it was going to take for him to stay in SJ. He probably would have been just as happy to go sign in Montreal or somewhere tax free.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Happy to help!

One thing to keep in mind is this isn't a survey of NHL players. It's peeps making some model taking a few factors like taxes and weather into consideration.


Also, Jumbo took hometown discount(s) to re-sign with the Sharks during his prime, if memory serves.

I did find a survey: NHL player poll: Most dreaded road trip, best dressing room, Gritty fatigue

Regarding Winnipeg specifically...

There's some stuff in there about it being boring, dirty and cold. Surprisingly enough no one mentioned their lack of wifi...

Didn't even realize it wasn't a survey... Good to know.

I think we can all agree that Jumbo was a different kind of animal. The fact he wouldn't take more than Patty at one point is kind of unprecedented as far as I've ever heard in the modern NHL. I think it's clear now though that a lot of guys had to be paid more to account for CA taxes and likely housing costs in the Bay Area and they would have had leverage over DW because then he would either have to let them walk or trade away good players from his competitive team.

I remember reading this when it came out but forgot about it. Really show how different hockey players are from football and basketball.

 

[landshark]

Didn't even realize it wasn't a survey... Good to know.

I think we can all agree that Jumbo was a different kind of animal. The fact he wouldn't take more than Patty at one point is kind of unprecedented as far as I've ever heard in the modern NHL. I think it's clear now though that a lot of guys had to be paid more to account for CA taxes and likely housing costs in the Bay Area and they would have had leverage over DW because then he would either have to let them walk or trade away good players from his competitive team.

I remember reading this when it came out but forgot about it. Really show how different hockey players are from football and basketball.

Jumbo was definitely in his own class. And I think I remember the "not taking more than Patty" and being blown away at the time. The more recent link was actually a player's poll (survey). 2019 42% of the players polled thought Winnipeg was the worst roadie. I'd guess if you didn't like visiting you prolly wouldn't be thrilled to call that place home.

You never hear, "X is a shitty place to visit but living there is great!"