Speculation: 2021 Sharks Offseason Roster Discussion part IV

[Dicdonya]

Guerin didn't, but the team and Leipold did. Who's gonna want to sign with them long term now when Leipold can just fire Guerin and bring in the next guy and have their relationship with the team become jeopardized?

Players get bought out and traded while under contract all the time though. What makes this one so special?

They were there for like a decade, on a contract from a bygone era and still get paid, while being able to make even more if they sign somewhere else, which they almost certainly will.

Outside of blindsiding them, I see no reason any one would be up in arms about the situation.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Players get bought out and traded while under contract all the time though. What makes this one so special?

They were there for like a decade, on a contract from a bygone era and still get paid, while being able to make even more if they sign somewhere else, which they almost certainly will.

Outside of blindsiding them, I see no reason any one would be up in arms about the situation.

They were there a decade and he didn't tell Suter? That's just f***ed up and shitty management. This isn't some Taco Bell employee, this is a guy who's a franchise icon at this point. Really they both are. Hometown heroes.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

We should offer sheet Sorokin. Isles are in cap hell. 1 year $4 million deal would only cost a 2nd.

You realize there is no way he signs a 1 year deal right? If you're gonna sign the kid, sign him for at least 3 years. I know what you're trying to do but the players aren't signing contracts like this.

 

[Hodge]

The buyout cost Suter about $3.5 million in actual salary. So every cent he earns over $3.5 million on the contract he signs this summer is career earnings he never would have had staying in Minnesota. He should be thankful he got bought out since it is literally going to make him richer. Might actually get to play for a Cup now too.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Some interesting UFAs out there

The guy I would love to get is Landeskog. If EK65 and him were good friends maybe he could entice him. I know he won't be cheap but I would rather have him than Labanc, Donato, Jones and Simek. That's around 15mil in salary right there. Trade out Couture or burns for assets and then get Eichel. I know, pipe dream but still... It's the off season and anythings possible right now.

 

[OffSydes]

LL owes DW for the Vladimir Malakhov trade

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Say what you will about Doug Wilson, but at least he didn’t do this.

Not directed at you Lebanezer just seems like a good post to add this to...

A lot of complaining about DW. What Guerin is doing one very real possibility with thinking the grass is greener. I know some of you think what he's doing is good but I think being in a place where people don't really want to live and treating player like that will come back to bite them. Difference is no one with have an issue with buying out Jones because he's literally been the worst at his position and it's tanked the teams record. If Guerin had just done Parise he might have been able to justify it and not suffered the PR damage that he's going to get for buying out a very useful Suter. One of the many reasons I'm not in a hurry to try out a new GM. Even what Holland is doing in Edmonton. FFS, Keith? Even vlasic is better than him right now. I thought Holland was supposed to be good. Was he just lucky all those years in Detroit?

 

[STL Shark]

Imagine handicapping your cap space by 20% for three years because of your ego and wanting to make "your team". Not to mention FA's thinking twice about signing with your team because you've shown a lack of commitment.

Guerin is an idiot and is driving the Wild into the ground already.

Imagine thinking that’s what this was about rather than realizing that the move was needed to keep a legit top pair D-Man in his prime in Dumba. As well as mitigating the risk of retirement by either guy should they get pissed off which puts them on the hook for even more cap hell. Also allows them to get their two best forwards under contract this year too. Bad take is very bad.

 

[Hodge]

Imagine thinking that’s what this was about rather than realizing that the move was needed to keep a legit top pair D-Man in his prime in Dumba. As well as mitigating the risk of retirement by either guy should they get pissed off which puts them on the hook for even more cap hell. Also allows them to get their two best forwards under contract this year too. Bad take is very bad.

It has to be fear of the cap recapture penalties more than anything. Especially since the league showed they are serious by hitting Vancouver with the Luongo penalty.

If Minnesota hadn't bought out Suter he would hold all the cards in being able to retire whenever he wants which would hit the team with massive penalties. They're still going to incur similar penalties from the buyout but at least in this case they know exactly what the amount is in each year and can plan around it.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

From Kurz article... Obviously I agree 100%.

"Also, the suggestion that the Sharks should keep Jones around in order to tank and get higher draft picks just isn’t based in reality. That’s no way to run a team unless you want a full-blown mutiny among the coaching staff and in the dressing room. (I’m not saying you’re making that suggestion, but I’ve seen it elsewhere.)"

Also...
"Q - Do you think many people are underestimating the influence that the business side has on the organization’s decision to reset vs. rebuild? Do you think that SJ’s brass believes the negative impact to the franchise is too great by announcing, and going through, a full multi-year rebuild?

A - I’ve always thought that’s the case not just in San Jose, but just about everywhere. Maybe that’s because I actually worked in a team’s front office in Philadelphia for several years, but in every organization, the head of hockey operations and the leader of the front office are in frequent communication or are at least sitting in the same meetings from time to time. That may sound obvious, but I think it sometimes gets overlooked by the everyday fan.

Teams like the New York Rangers and Chicago Blackhawks can get away with making public their rebuild plans, as they have in recent years. They are in big enough markets and are popular enough in their respective cities that they can afford to do that. But they also are in the minority."

paywall
Are Sharks' Bob Boughner and Doug Wilson secure? Kevin Labanc's trade value? Martin Jones buyout?: Mailbag

 

[Bizz]

Imagine thinking that’s what this was about rather than realizing that the move was needed to keep a legit top pair D-Man in his prime in Dumba. As well as mitigating the risk of retirement by either guy should they get pissed off which puts them on the hook for even more cap hell. Also allows them to get their two best forwards under contract this year too. Bad take is very bad.

You literally called Dumba a top pair defenseman and you say I'm the one with the bad takes.

 

[fasterthanlight]

suter, karlsson, vlasic, burns could have been the best top 4 in league history circa 2014. Could be the worst top 4 in 2021. make it happen doug.

 

[Lebanezer]

 

[Desert Eagle]

2023:

Parise = Vlasic
Suter = EK65
Guerin = *insert new Sharks’ GM*

edit: words after “Guerin” so that you get me right.

 

[Bizz]

Guerin was f***ing horrendous after he got traded to the Sharks in 07, still to this day one of DW's worst moves he's made. Last thing I want is him anywhere near this team as a GM.

 

[Desert Eagle]

I didn’t mean Guerin will be a new GM here. I mean new GM will buyout two players like a Bill.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

2023:

Parise = Vlasic
Suter = EK65
Guerin = *insert new Sharks’ GM*

edit: words after “Guerin” so that you get me right.

I get the sentiment but there is no way EK65 is getting bought out on that massive contract. Hopefully Vlasic retires by then anyway.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Suter doesn't sound very appreciative of the opportunity to earn even more money...

Full article for anyone interested..
Wild's stunning Zach Parise and Ryan Suter buyouts could create salary-cap repercussions for years


"the decision to buy out Parise and Suter was not made for expansion reasons. Guerin simply could have asked either to waive their no-move clause for the purpose of expansion."

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Another possible solution... Maybe DW has Seattle take someone the Sharks like from another team with a big salary in expansion and trade that player to the SJ while retaining some salary so they fit under the cap for SJ? Any guys rumored to be exposed that would be good for the Sharks to pick up in this scenario?

 

[sub_zero94]

Guerin was f***ing horrendous after he got traded to the Sharks in 07, still to this day one of DW's worst moves he's made. Last thing I want is him anywhere near this team as a GM.

Imho, he also made Marleau worse. Patty was constantly looking to pass and find Guerin instead of using his own goal scoring talents like what actually made him very successful.

 

[STL Shark]

You literally called Dumba a top pair defenseman and you say I'm the one with the bad takes.

22-23 mins a night against without sheltered zone starts and pretty damn good advanced stats. Yeah, that is a top pair D-Man. More of a #2, but that's top pairing stuff, yes. Don't get mad at me that your take stunk.

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

Bill Guerin did NOT want to be in San Jose and it showed. He was awful as a Shark.

 

[themelkman]

Saw a rumour on Twitter the devils might move McKenzie Blackwood. If we had an older vet option also I would for sure be interested in him.

 

[Le Rosbeef]

Just shouting thoughts out loud for a minute... would there be any interest in a deal with Boston around Burns / Coyle and the rights to Brandon Carlo?

Burns, 4 years at 8m left.
Coyle, 5 years at 5.25m left,
Carlo RFA, ~3.5m/4m per

While I will openly admit I don't think Coyle is worth that contract, he'd be a decent middle six C for us, and Carlo is exactly the type of Dman we could do with adding, good on the PK and might open a path for Mr Merkley to become EK's protégé. Carlo's injuries have been an issue that dampen his value because of the inconsistency. I feel he would be worth a punt.

Obviously I haven't gone into the idea of retentions etc as that's not my bag, but wondered what impressions were of the core?

 

[Reggae Shark]

Just shouting thoughts out loud for a minute... would there be any interest in a deal with Boston around Burns / Coyle and the rights to Brandon Carlo?

Burns, 4 years at 8m left.
Coyle, 5 years at 5.25m left,
Carlo RFA, ~3.5m/4m per

While I will openly admit I don't think Coyle is worth that contract, he'd be a decent middle six C for us, and Carlo is exactly the type of Dman we could do with adding, good on the PK and might open a path to Mr Merkley for become EK's protégé. Carlo's injuries have been an issue that dampen his value because of the inconsistency. I feel he would be worth a punt.

Obviously I haven't gone into the idea of retentions etc as that's not my bag, but wondered what impressions were of the core?

I love Coyle!

I think he can be a huge value as a compliment on a good playoff team. On the Sharks he would have too much weight to carry. Sadly, we'd make his contract look even worse than it is.