2021 Season Predictions

[AKL]

This is the part where I ask you to break down the film for us, and you disappear from the conversation. What skills are showcased from a video of Eriksson-Ek scoring on wrap-around jam plays and shooting loose pucks from the slot? What do we learn from him tapping in pucks from a foot away?

Danault? are you talking about the guy that's better than Eriksson-Ek on both ends of the ice? The same guy that I wanted to pair with Eriksson-Ek to handle the middle 6 center spots? Not sure what point you think you're making.

Not looking at his skills, looking at his instinct. So yeah, I'm not going to break down his skillset on each play for you, you're right.

 

[AKL]

Mayhew is an example of offensive instincts being great for lower levels, yet at the NHL level, completely exposed as being extremely deliberately thought through... not at all instinctual, thus not at all good enough at this level.

Ek is better than Mayhew though, instinctually and otherwise, but still looks to me to not be good enough for what you would expect for a top 6 center.

Again, not against trying to see if that can develop some yet, just not high hopes that we're going to find a offensive gem all of a sudden either.

Mikko Koivu was a top 6 center on this team for 15 years. I'm not looking for an offensive gem out of Eriksson Ek. I'm looking for a viable 2C. That's it.

Not Elias Pettersson, not Sebastian Aho, not Mika Zibanejad. I'm looking for a poor man's Ryan O'Reilly.

 

[TaLoN]

Mikko Koivu was a top 6 center on this team for 15 years. I'm not looking for an offensive gem out of Eriksson Ek. I'm looking for a viable 2C. That's it.

Not Elias Pettersson, not Sebastian Aho, not Mika Zibanejad. I'm looking for a poor man's Ryan O'Reilly.

Mikko Koivu was a better overall player IMO

 

[2Pair]

Not looking at his skills, looking at his instinct. So yeah, I'm not going to break down his skillset on each play for you, you're right.

Break down where his "instincts" are on display in that video then.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

That's exactly what I think. And I would add that a center playing 1st line minutes with Kaprizov and Fiala that has to scratch to get to 50 points? That's a center that has no business playing that role.

i know this is what you think. youre anti ek as i stated before. scratching to get 50? i think he can easily hit 50 in that role. you dont which is ok. as AKL kindly pointed out he had an offensive side to him pre wild. we forced him into 4th line center role then shutdown 3c role here. he adapted well and has done well with it but that does not mean he has no offensive skills to be that top line C for us. also mentioned by AKL, who on this team is really stopping you from putting him there?

Mikko Koivu was a better overall player IMO

i wont dispute that koivu is a better overall player. i do however recall seeing Ek play with Nylander and they did solid things together offensively. i also remember watching highlights of ek when we drafted him and how i was excited for his offensive ability not his shut down ability. i do think he is a lock for 50 points if played between Fiala and Kap. i may be alone on that thought but i dont think 50 points between those two is as farfetched as some may see it.

 

[AKL]

Mikko Koivu was a better overall player IMO

I don't think Koivu ever had top end offensive instincts. All I'm asking for is that Eriksson Ek be given the opportunity to play in the top 6 with offensive wingers and be allowed to focus on scoring, rather than defense.

 

[2Pair]

i know this is what you think. youre anti ek as i stated before. scratching to get 50? i think he can easily hit 50 in that role. you dont which is ok. as AKL kindly pointed out he had an offensive side to him pre wild. we forced him into 4th line center role then shutdown 3c role here. he adapted well and has done well with it but that does not mean he has no offensive skills to be that top line C for us. also mentioned by AKL, who on this team is really stopping you from putting him there?

Couldn't be more wrong. He was gifted icetime that he couldn't live up to and gradually earned his way out of the lineup until last season. Even the season he had last season is largely overrated by quite a few on this board. Check the numbers, he wasn't playing 3rd line minutes.

I'm right there with everyone else that he has earned the chance to play a more offensive role, but some of you act like he hasn't already been given that chance. Even worse are the group claiming that it's the Wild that are holding him back and that he has already shown capable of being a top 6 center. That's just flat out incorrect.

 

[TaLoN]

I don't think Koivu ever had top end offensive instincts. All I'm asking for is that Eriksson Ek be given the opportunity to play in the top 6 with offensive wingers and be allowed to focus on scoring, rather than defense.

I agree Koivu didn't have great instincts either, but I do think he was able to create time and space he could use to be as deliberate as he was with the puck offensively, and he had decent vision that I haven't yet seen with Ek as well.

Again, I'm not against giving Ek the chance to prove himself, so there's another place we agree. You and I just seem to disagree on what is the "likely" outcome of said chance.

You happen to be more optimistic than I am.

 

[2Pair]

i know this is what you think. youre anti ek as i stated before. scratching to get 50? i think he can easily hit 50 in that role. you dont which is ok. as AKL kindly pointed out he had an offensive side to him pre wild. we forced him into 4th line center role then shutdown 3c role here. he adapted well and has done well with it but that does not mean he has no offensive skills to be that top line C for us. also mentioned by AKL, who on this team is really stopping you from putting him there?


i wont dispute that koivu is a better overall player. i do however recall seeing Ek play with Nylander and they did solid things together offensively. i also remember watching highlights of ek when we drafted him and how i was excited for his offensive ability not his shut down ability. i do think he is a lock for 50 points if played between Fiala and Kap. i may be alone on that thought but i dont think 50 points between those two is as farfetched as some may see it.

when did that happen?

 

[DeagleJenkins]

when did that happen?

the world juniors. might of only been on the pp together but they were on the same team and i recall them making some nice plays together.

Couldn't be more wrong. He was gifted icetime that he couldn't live up to and gradually earned his way out of the lineup until last season. Even the season he had last season is largely overrated by quite a few on this board. Check the numbers, he wasn't playing 3rd line minutes.

I'm right there with everyone else that he has earned the chance to play a more offensive role, but some of you act like he hasn't already been given that chance. Even worse are the group claiming that it's the Wild that are holding him back and that he has already shown capable of being a top 6 center. That's just flat out incorrect.

gifted ice time? he was put on the 4th line to earn his way up. he didnt start on the second line and play himself down. i use 3rd line as i have always known 3rd line to be the shutdown line. just because he may get more icetime than the 2nd line doesnt mean he is playing the 2nd line now does it?

 

[TaLoN]

I'll be honest, if we're looking at 50pts as a win for a center between Kap and Fiala... I think we're shooting low. I'd be very disappointed in any center in that situation... if Kap and Fiala are who we hope they are.

Koivu broke 70 between Brunette and Miettinen.

Even a poor man's Koivu SHOULD be expected to hit 60 with Kap and Fiala.

 

[2Pair]

the world juniors. might of only been on the pp together but they were on the same team and i recall them making some nice plays together.

They never played together at the WJC. Both were on the 2016 team Sweden but Nylander played half a game before getting knocked out of the tournament

 

[DeagleJenkins]

I'll be honest, if we're looking at 50pts as a win for a center between Kap and Fiala... I think we're shooting low. I'd be very disappointed in any center in that situation... if Kap and Fiala are who we hope they are.

Koivu broke 70 between Brunette and Miettinen.

Even a poor man's Koivu SHOULD be expected to hit 60 with Kap and Fiala.

im not so much saying thats a win, im saying between those two it should be easy to hit 50 points which 57 didnt think he would be able to get or something along those lines, i didnt go back to reread his exact words on it.

 

[AKL]

Break down where his "instincts" are on display in that video then.

The entire video shows he has a scorers instinct. He gets to the center of the ice, he goes to the net.

On the wrap-around goal he recognized the left side of the net was wide open, and instead of jamming it through the pad like Parise would have, he made a move to the open side and tucked it in.

The following goal he beat his defender, found the open space in the slot, got the pass, and he showed patience and made a nice move to get it in, rather than just shooting it straight at the goalie right away.

On the goal that started around 38 seconds in, recognizing that his guy had the puck and got it into the offensive zone, he went and retrieved it, and instead of going to the corner or behind the net, he went straight to the middle of the ice, was able to make the goalie make a play on the puck, which opened up the net for him to score.

The next play, when he received the puck in the slot, he passed it to the guy in front, and peeled off to the right, and got an easy goal off the give and go, instead of just taking the open shot right away that would have been an easy save.

On the goal that starts at 1:03 he got behind the defense to receive the stretch pass and give himself a breakaway.

On the next goal he positioned himself for the cross crease pass that he was able to just tip into an open net.

No, he's not a flashy player like Fiala. I never claimed he would be. He's not going to be a Thornton level passer or an Ovechkin level sniper, but he knows where to position himself to generate offense with the tools and abilities he has. Who cares if the goals he scores aren't highlight reel goals, he's still been able to find ways through out his career (pre-Wild) to score effectively.

 

[2Pair]

the world juniors. might of only been on the pp together but they were on the same team and i recall them making some nice plays together.


gifted ice time? he was put on the 4th line to earn his way up. he didnt start on the second line and play himself down. i use 3rd line as i have always known 3rd line to be the shutdown line. just because he may get more icetime than the 2nd line doesnt mean he is playing the 2nd line now does it?

That's exactly what it means

 

[DeagleJenkins]

They never played together at the WJC. Both were on the 2016 team Sweden but Nylander played half a game before getting knocked out of the tournament

it was Alex Nylander.

That's exactly what it means

so which line is our 2nd line currently? johansson - bonino - fiala? if Eks line has more ice time than they do he is actually playing the 2nd line?

 

[AKL]

The first goal against the Blues, he's able to fight off the defender, keep possession of the puck, get it to Greenway behind him, instead of Coyle, for the open shot, then goes to the net for the rebound.

The goal against the Flyers, after the defender whiffs on the pass and the Wild get it back, he's able to find a soft spot in a tight space where he can receive the pass and get it in the net.

Against the Oilers, when his wingers are battling behind the net, he finds the open space in the slot to receive the pass, and finishes it above the blocker.

The goal against the Devils, when the puck goes to the point, he gets to the front of the net to create traffic and confusion, finds the puck and is able to score.

Goal against the Devils part 2, he intercepts the bad pass from the goaltender, and quickly gets to the left side of the net that's wide open for an easy goal.

The final goal against the Jets, he cuts to the middle of the ice again as he's receiving the pass to get space of the two defenders, and is able to use the defenders body to screen the goalie, and places the puck in the top corner.

Again, I'm not expecting him to develop into a star offensive center, nor do I expect him to be the primary play driver in the top 6, but he's certainly not devoid of offensive ability and instinct. He's put up the numbers in the past, in Sweden, in international play, in the AHL, to indicate he can be a capable offensive center.



Last years goals make the pattern even more clear. He knows how to get to the open ice, the slot, the front of the net, whatever it is, and his shot is good enough to put it in when he gets it. And I don't really care if some of his goals come from battling around the net. A large amount of goals scored in the NHL come from within 6' of the net, and frankly, when your wingers are guys like Fiala, Zuccarello, Johansson who do their best work away from the net, having a guy who can score within 6', AS WELL AS shoot from the middle, that's pretty valuable.

 

[TaLoN]

The first goal against the Blues, he's able to fight off the defender, keep possession of the puck, get it to Greenway behind him, instead of Coyle, for the open shot, then goes to the net for the rebound.

The goal against the Flyers, after the defender whiffs on the pass and the Wild get it back, he's able to find a soft spot in a tight space where he can receive the pass and get it in the net.

Against the Oilers, when his wingers are battling behind the net, he finds the open space in the slot to receive the pass, and finishes it above the blocker.

The goal against the Devils, when the puck goes to the point, he gets to the front of the net to create traffic and confusion, finds the puck and is able to score.

Goal against the Devils part 2, he intercepts the bad pass from the goaltender, and quickly gets to the left side of the net that's wide open for an easy goal.

The final goal against the Jets, he cuts to the middle of the ice again as he's receiving the pass to get space of the two defenders, and is able to use the defenders body to screen the goalie, and places the puck in the top corner.

Again, I'm not expecting him to develop into a star offensive center, nor do I expect him to be the primary play driver in the top 6, but he's certainly not devoid of offensive ability and instinct. He's put up the numbers in the past, in Sweden, in international play, in the AHL, to indicate he can be a capable offensive center.



Last years goals make the pattern even more clear. He knows how to get to the open ice, the slot, the front of the net, whatever it is, and his shot is good enough to put it in when he gets it. And I don't really care if some of his goals come from battling around the net. A large amount of goals scored in the NHL come from within 6' of the net, and frankly, when your wingers are guys like Fiala, Zuccarello, Johansson who do their best work away from the net, having a guy who can score within 6', AS WELL AS shoot from the middle, that's pretty valuable.

The problem with highlight videos trying to show something like instinct... it will show what was done right... only.

They don't show the many instances where he looked completely awkward offensively that we've seen.

Again, it may be because he hasn't had the chance to develop what he's succeeded with and not as much opportunity to work on what he needs work on... time will tell on that.

He's had moments, but good instincts lead to more than moments, they lead to consistency in plays, to the point where even when goals aren't being scored by him or his linemates, you can see the opportunities he's creating in those situations.

We'll see if he gets the chance, if he can improve on those instincts or not. Generally he looks very deliberate in his offensive decision making. Until he can speed that up... feel the play instead of having to think the play through from moment to moment... his offensive game will leave us wanting.

 

[AKL]

The problem with highlight videos trying to show something like instinct... it will show what was done right... only.

They don't show the many instances where he looked completely awkward offensively that we've seen.

Again, it may be because he hasn't had the chance to develop what he's succeeded with and not as much opportunity to work on what he needs work on... time will tell on that.

He's had moments, but good instincts lead to more than moments, they lead to consistency in plays, to the point where even when goals aren't being scored by him or his linemates, you can see the opportunities he's creating in those situations.

We'll see if he gets the chance, if he can improve on those instincts or not. Generally he looks very deliberate in his offensive decision making. Until he can speed that up... feel the play instead of having to think the play through from moment to moment... his offensive game will leave us wanting.

None of this means he shouldn't have an opportunity to prove or disprove it by playing in an offensive role. Especially given the competition this season.

 

[TaLoN]

None of this means he shouldn't have an opportunity to prove or disprove it by playing in an offensive role. Especially given the competition this season.

Never said otherwise

 

[AKL]

Never said otherwise

Then I have to ask again, who are you arguing with?

 

[TaLoN]

Then I have to ask again, who are you arguing with?

Again, I say the original person I quoted.

You keep choosing to argue against a point I've never made. I was giving my opinion on why I wouldn't be as optimistic about his having success in such a situation as others.

You reply to my posts, so I respond. My only point has ever been that I don't feel he has the instincts needed to succeed in the top 6. Never have I said he shouldn't get the chance to prove me wrong.

 

[AKL]

Again, I say the original person I quoted.

You keep choosing to argue against a point I've never made. I was giving my opinion on why I wouldn't be as optimistic about his having success in such a situation as others.

You reply to my posts, so I respond. My only point has ever been that I don't feel he has the instincts needed to succeed in the top 6. Never have I said he shouldn't get the chance to prove me wrong.

Then why do you keep quoting me trying to make points that don't have anything to do with what I'm saying?

 

[2Pair]

The first goal against the Blues, he's able to fight off the defender, keep possession of the puck, get it to Greenway behind him, instead of Coyle, for the open shot, then goes to the net for the rebound.

The goal against the Flyers, after the defender whiffs on the pass and the Wild get it back, he's able to find a soft spot in a tight space where he can receive the pass and get it in the net.

Against the Oilers, when his wingers are battling behind the net, he finds the open space in the slot to receive the pass, and finishes it above the blocker.

The goal against the Devils, when the puck goes to the point, he gets to the front of the net to create traffic and confusion, finds the puck and is able to score.

Goal against the Devils part 2, he intercepts the bad pass from the goaltender, and quickly gets to the left side of the net that's wide open for an easy goal.

The final goal against the Jets, he cuts to the middle of the ice again as he's receiving the pass to get space of the two defenders, and is able to use the defenders body to screen the goalie, and places the puck in the top corner.

Again, I'm not expecting him to develop into a star offensive center, nor do I expect him to be the primary play driver in the top 6, but he's certainly not devoid of offensive ability and instinct. He's put up the numbers in the past, in Sweden, in international play, in the AHL, to indicate he can be a capable offensive center.



Last years goals make the pattern even more clear. He knows how to get to the open ice, the slot, the front of the net, whatever it is, and his shot is good enough to put it in when he gets it. And I don't really care if some of his goals come from battling around the net. A large amount of goals scored in the NHL come from within 6' of the net, and frankly, when your wingers are guys like Fiala, Zuccarello, Johansson who do their best work away from the net, having a guy who can score within 6', AS WELL AS shoot from the middle, that's pretty valuable.

Now do the same kind of analysis on guys like Fiala/Kaprizov then do Koivu/Zuccarello and then do Hartman/Foligno. Let us which pair is most similar to Eriksson Ek. Your breakdown fits perfectly with a bottom six grinder with a decent shot.

 

[TaLoN]

Then why do you keep quoting me trying to make points that don't have anything to do with what I'm saying?

I responded to your video post about instincts, pointing out the flaws of highlights to try to show instincts.

A scouting video would be more telling as it should show both sides of the coin.

Highlights can show skill better than it can show instincts.