2021 Roster Thread XIII (Off-season edition): Not for triskaidekaphobia but we have arrived

[ybnvs]

The offense sucked too, and you're being too shortsighted dismissing the idea of acquiring Eichel because you're worried about defense and goaltending for the 21-22 season.

Eichel is a game-changer for the next 5 years at least and maybe more if extended. Giroux and Couturier are not sure things to re-sign here. They could each walk in 1 year, and then we are REALLY f***ed for years. Eichel would give them added incentive to re-sign and if they didn't, then we just reshape the team around him and the youth like Farabee, TK, Frost, Foerster, etc.

Okay.


Edit: Somehow clicked submit - read further down for next post. Sorry.

 

[Rebels57]

Carter Hart contract?

Probably a 2 year bridge less than $2 million per.

 

[deadhead]

The offense sucked too, and you're being too shortsighted dismissing the idea of acquiring Eichel because you're worried about defense and goaltending for the 21-22 season.

Eichel is a game-changer for the next 5 years at least and maybe more if extended. Giroux and Couturier are not sure things to re-sign here. They could each walk in 1 year, and then we are REALLY f***ed for years. Eichel would give them added incentive to re-sign and if they didn't, then we just reshape the team around him and the youth like Farabee, TK, Frost, Foerster, etc.

How many playoffs did Eichel's Bills make with him as a game-changer.
G and Couts carried the Flyers to 2 playoff appearances with a team that was just as bad.

 

[ybnvs]

Coaching struggled the most. The other two were distant 2nd and thirds.

I'm not talking about coaching, and the coaches aren't changing anyways. The topic I'm on is the roster.

 

[flyers0909]

I'm trying to wrap my head around how Nolan Patrick taking a roster spot is going to ruin the team but trading assets for Nate Thompson is completely fine. Chris f***ing Stewart took up a roster spot last year for a third of the season.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Probably a 2 year bridge less than $2 million per.

you know i wouldnt put it past this dipshit Org. to trade Hart for some old vet Goalie, and have them run a Moose/? combo..


"we felt we needed a heavy veteran presence in net"...

 

[Tripod]

because he missed an entire season and training. and needs time to get back. his first two years were better than anything we had seen from Laughton. and much younger ages. lets not hit panic buttons too fast. One really bad season after missing an entire one is grounds for giving up on a player. One really bad season where a coach consistently runs a poor system and misses uses players. is the players fault not the coach. and we should give him another chance. see the hypocrisy

But that's not what you were talking about.

You said you would not be surprised if he clashed with the coaching staff. For what? They played Patrick as the #2C when Couts was hurt...#3 when he came back. They played him on the PP all season. Played him with G and Jake.

That has nothing to do with everything you just posted above.

Now his RESULTS....maybe can be blamed on not training for 1.5 year, getting his skating/wind back, etc...

I didn't mention giving up on him at all. We would be dumb to trade him when he is dirt cheap, has no leverage to get traded and has the upside.

So again...what did the coaches do that would make you say "you would not be surprised if he clashed with the coaching staff"?

 

[ybnvs]

The offense sucked too, and you're being too shortsighted dismissing the idea of acquiring Eichel because you're worried about defense and goaltending for the 21-22 season.

Eichel is a game-changer for the next 5 years at least and maybe more if extended. Giroux and Couturier are not sure things to re-sign here. They could each walk in 1 year, and then we are REALLY f***ed for years. Eichel would give them added incentive to re-sign and if they didn't, then we just reshape the team around him and the youth like Farabee, TK, Frost, Foerster, etc.

I'm not dismissing the idea of acquiring Eichel. I do find it far-fetched and not what this team needs right now.

Fletcher isn't thinking about 4-5 years from now. He's thinking about now. His job is dependent on tomorrow and the next 2 years. I highly doubt he'll mortgage a package to acquire Eichel while simultaneously leaving a detrimental hole in goaltending and defense which were monstrously disastrous this year.

 

[flyers0909]

I'm also going to lose my mind if I see +/- and Patrick used in the same post again.

 

[Tripod]

I'm trying to wrap my head around how Nolan Patrick taking a roster spot is going to ruin the team but trading assets for Nate Thompson is completely fine. Chris f***ing Stewart took up a roster spot last year for a third of the season.

exactly.

All the upside, no downside to keep him for $900,000

 

[Starat327]

I'm not talking about coaching, and the coaches aren't changing anyways. The topic I'm on is the roster.

Just because coaching wont change, doesnt mean it shouldnt. Adding a better backup keeper wont save said keeper from a shit system. Adding more talented D (and lets face it, the only way were acquiring that D is by selling talented forwards) wont save us from a shitty system.

The only thing that can overcome shitty systems is elite talent.

 

[ybnvs]

I'm also going to lose my mind if I see +/- and Patrick used in the same post again.

What's the over/under on Patrick's +/- being worse next year than this year?

 

[Starat327]

What's the over/under on Patrick's +/- being worse next year than this year?

Is the assumption here that the same system which requires our skilled, possession based forwards and defensemen willfully giving up possession on low % pass attempts still being deployed?

 

[ybnvs]

Just because coaching wont change, doesnt mean it shouldnt. Adding a better backup keeper wont save said keeper from a shit system. Adding more talented D (and lets face it, the only way were acquiring that D is by selling talented forwards) wont save us from a shitty system.

The only thing that can overcome shitty systems is elite talent.

So?

 

[Beef Invictus]

How many playoffs did Eichel's Bills make with him as a game-changer.
G and Couts carried the Flyers to 2 playoff appearances with a team that was just as bad.

The Bills just played in the AFC Championship, but I can't figure out why we are crediting Eichel for that.


Also the Flyers have definitely not been as bad as Buffalo. Eichel has had less support by far. For one, he's not had any partners like Giroux and Couturier and Voracek have been for each other without getting into depth like Schenn and Simmonds.

 

[FLYERSFAN18]

This team isn’t going to meet expectations next season with the current coaching staff so it doesn’t really matter. But why is it that it has to be get Eichel or upgrade the defense and goaltending? Goaltending should be upgraded through free agency so no problem there. As for defense; getting rid of Hogg completely, making Braun the 6/7, and putting the current defenseman in better positions to succeed makes the defense better without adding a single player.

 

[Adtar02]

But that's not what you were talking about.

You said you would not be surprised if he clashed with the coaching staff. For what? They played Patrick as the #2C when Couts was hurt...#3 when he came back. They played him on the PP all season. Played him with G and Jake.

That has nothing to do with everything you just posted above.

Now his RESULTS....maybe can be blamed on not training for 1.5 year, getting his skating/wind back, etc...

I didn't mention giving up on him at all. We would be dumb to trade him when he is dirt cheap, has no leverage to get traded and has the upside.

So again...what did the coaches do that would make you say "you would not be surprised if he clashed with the coaching staff"?

my clash comment was based on him not how the they played him. IE. he was highly regarded prospect since young. was always the best on the team. no he is facing adversity and has had three different coaches in his 4 year career and missed an entire season. there were times you could see him get into with gordon on bench. AV is also I am right do it my way coach. Patrick had success and is now struggling in AV system. (not the only one). So yeah I could see a player regarded the way he was being a little put of by coaches trying to change his game. it was pure speculation. but with logic.

While he got have decent usage this year. he still played like he was looking over his shoulder trying not to make mistakes while trying to keep up with the game. One more season out of him should be what the flyers want. to see if he can bounce back like many players do after they miss an entire season. it takes them till the second year to bounce back.

 

[ybnvs]

Is the assumption here that the same system which requires our skilled, possession based forwards and defensemen willfully giving up possession on low % pass attempts still being deployed?

I have no clue, I just wanted to help make that guy lose his mind by doing exactly what he asked us not to do.

 

[Rebels57]

If we do trade for Eichel, which I am in favor of ...since we are the Flyers he will never get over his neck injury and whatever picks we trade will go on to be superstars.

But we should still do it lol

 

[Starat327]

So?

I'm bewildered by this response. If a system is broken, interchanging parts doesnt fix a system -- this is true in not just hockey, but just about everything. Go upgrade your backup goalie and D. If your D are still sitting there chucking passes 100' with no forward support, theyre still going to b e susceptible to an agressive forecheck. unless the back up G youre geting is Dominik Hasek, the ultimate result will be the same.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Know the one way to take our pants off and get really wild?

Trade for Eichel. Then trade Couturier to better align with the age of the youngsters.

My god I would squeal like a schoolgirl.

 

[ybnvs]

I'm bewildered by this response. If a system is broken, interchanging parts doesnt fix a system -- this is true in not just hockey, but just about everything. Go upgrade your backup goalie and D. If your D are still sitting there chucking passes 100' with no forward support, theyre still going to b e susceptible to an agressive forecheck. unless the back up G youre geting is Dominik Hasek, the ultimate result will be the same.

Bewildered? Don't be sensitive. It was a response to lead into this post ^, because I was looking for more context from you. So, thanks!

It wasn't a snarky/definitive "So." The throw your hands up in the air, type of response.

 

[ybnvs]

I'm bewildered by this response. If a system is broken, interchanging parts doesnt fix a system -- this is true in not just hockey, but just about everything. Go upgrade your backup goalie and D. If your D are still sitting there chucking passes 100' with no forward support, theyre still going to b e susceptible to an agressive forecheck. unless the back up G youre geting is Dominik Hasek, the ultimate result will be the same.

I'm genuinely curious, since I didn't get to watch most of this season (~15 games give or take), but what changed from last year's success to this year's failure in terms of systems?

I don't like to make excuses, but I do like to analyze the variables as objectively as possible. There are a lot of extenuating circumstances and aspects of this year that are unusual to the hockey season. The only thing I'm trying to manage is tempering my expectations and judgement and reserving them for the end of next year.

 

[Tripod]

my clash comment was based on him not how the they played him. IE. he was highly regarded prospect since young. was always the best on the team. no he is facing adversity and has had three different coaches in his 4 year career and missed an entire season. there were times you could see him get into with gordon on bench. AV is also I am right do it my way coach. Patrick had success and is now struggling in AV system. (not the only one). So yeah I could see a player regarded the way he was being a little put of by coaches trying to change his game. it was pure speculation. but with logic.

While he got have decent usage this year. he still played like he was looking over his shoulder trying not to make mistakes while trying to keep up with the game. One more season out of him should be what the flyers want. to see if he can bounce back like many players do after they miss an entire season. it takes them till the second year to bounce back.

ok...this makes sense....and I am glad you expanded on it.

 

[Adtar02]

I'm genuinely curious, since I didn't get to watch most of this season (~15 games give or take), but what changed from last year's success to this year's failure in terms of systems?

I don't like to make excuses, but I do like to analyze the variables as objectively as possible. There are a lot of extenuating circumstances and aspects of this year that are unusual to the hockey season. The only thing I'm trying to manage is tempering my expectations and judgement and reserving them for the end of next year.

AV run the crap system he used in playoffs. much like gordon in Lehigh Instead of the one from the regular season. AV seems to revert to this when having to constantly play the same teams over and over again.