2021 NHL Entry Draft Part 1

[Odie Cleghorn]

They can use them right now......teams are stuck on the cap......offer 2 seconds and a prospect for a legit top 6

The 2 2nds aren't worth much. The prospect would have to be Romanov level.

 

[jaffy27]

The 2 2nds aren't worth much. The prospect would have to be Romanov level.

Nope.....they are dreaming

you don’t give your best prospect when a team is in cap hell

 

[Habs76]

No I don't think so.

If you compare them to each other they don't look bad (obviously), but when you compare the D-1 years, its the weakest draft since the Stefan draft. I think its as weak as that...

If you compare the D-2 years of the top 2022s there is 10-12 season better than any of the D-1 years of the 2021s.

2. Kent Johnson would have not been ranked in the top 15 in 2019 or 2020.

Yeah there's a huge weakness at the top of the draft, but I think it fleshes out pretty well and seems to have a lot of very intriguing players. I'm cautiously optimistic.

And I disagree pretty strongly on Johnson.

 

[Habs76]

UMich is slated to play as of November, so we’ll see about that. I think everyone will be pleasantly surprised - there’s a lot of elite talent on that team and he will feast on opposing teams that are forced to spread out their best defenders.

Yeah, he's so talented and creative with the puck- I really think he's gonna rocket up lists quickly.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I like Johnson more than Aatu for the moment.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

I like Johnson more than Aatu for the moment.

I'm kinda on the same boat ATM, for whatever reason Räty hasn't necessarily wowed me the way Kakko did at the same age . I definitely see the appeal though, on paper he's got a lot to like.

 

[SOLR]

I like Johnson more than Aatu for the moment.

I think so as well for what its worth this early.

They both havent showed elite qualities at 16 years, however.

 

[NotProkofievian]

The draft would be so much more interesting if they lowered the minimum age for draft eligibility. I get that the draft eligibility is tied to eligibility to play in the following NHL season, but you can keep that in place while allowing teams to draft 16 year olds.

If someone wants to wait an extra year for Wright, they should be able to.

 

[SOLR]

The draft would be so much more interesting if they lowered the minimum age for draft eligibility. I get that the draft eligibility is tied to eligibility to play in the following NHL season, but you can keep that in place while allowing teams to draft 16 year olds.

If someone wants to wait an extra year for Wright, they should be able to.

I'm not for this at all. I'm for a junior super league (JNHL), regrouping all the best 19-20-21 years old talents, with the NHL draft arriving when they are at the end of that. With the JNHL teams drafting 18 years old. NHL teams drafting 22 years old. That would be much better for hockey. Right now there is this significant gap between the NHL and each domestic system, and the AHL isn't a good solution.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I'm not for this at all. I'm for a junior super league (JNHL), regrouping all the best 19-20-21 years old talents, with the NHL draft arriving when they are at the end of that. With the JNHL teams drafting 18 years old. NHL teams drafting 22 years old. That would be much better for hockey. Right now there is this significant gap between the NHL and each domestic system, and the AHL isn't a good solution.

That's a separate issue. Europeans have access to leagues that are closer to the NHL. I'd be in support of creating a Canadian Professional League to give our own kids that opportunity, and indeed our own pros who just aren't good enough for the show.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

USDP is actually good this year, won't be thaaaat terrible a class

 

[SOLR]

That's a separate issue. Europeans have access to leagues that are closer to the NHL. I'd be in support of creating a Canadian Professional League to give our own kids that opportunity, and indeed our own pros who just aren't good enough for the show.

Europeans have the same problem with their 19-20-21 years old. Sure they play more in their domestic leagues, but its still a step too quick for the majority.

 

[Habs76]

USDP is actually good this year, won't be thaaaat terrible a class

Yeah. It seems like a really strong class from the Q as well.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Europeans have the same problem with their 19-20-21 years old. Sure they play more in their domestic leagues, but its still a step too quick for the majority.

They don't have the same problem. They have a solution which addresses our problem. Maybe that has its own particular issues, but they don't have kids like Nick Suzuki playing in the same junior league for 4 years, and they have a system which allows gradual increasing of difficulty for their lesser prospects. Actually, every nation other than Canada has more graduated steps for their prospects to the NHL available to them. We're alone in our pant-on-head NHL or Junior stupidity.

But this is also unrelated to my original contention, that NHL teams should be allowed to draft 16 year olds. Why should a team be forced to choose Aatu over Brad Lambert this year? Why shouldn't they already be able to choose Brad and wait the year to have him be able to attend an NHL training camp? They're the ones assuming the extra risk.

 

[Habs76]

Matvei Michkov has a real shot to usurp Connor Bedard in 2023. If SKA-1946 would play him like they do their other stars, and not 13:46/game, he'd be leading the MHL in points with ease. He's awfully close as is.

 

[Habs76]

They don't have the same problem. They have a solution which addresses our problem. Maybe that has its own particular issues, but they don't have kids like Nick Suzuki playing in the same junior league for 4 years, and they have a system which allows gradual increasing of difficulty for their lesser prospects. Actually, every nation other than Canada has more graduated steps for their prospects to the NHL available to them. We're alone in our pant-on-head NHL or Junior stupidity.

But this is also unrelated to my original contention, that NHL teams should be allowed to draft 16 year olds. Why should a team be forced to choose Aatu over Brad Lambert this year? Why shouldn't they already be able to choose Brad and wait the year to have him be able to attend an NHL training camp? They're the ones assuming the extra risk.

If NHL teams can draft 16 year olds, then they may as well be able to draft 15 year olds too. And 14 year olds. And 13 year olds. Welcome to Montreal, Aron Kiviharju! Basically, the draft will turn into an entry draft for peewees with the odd 19-year-old Russian from Vladivostok going in the sixth round.

All you're proposing is to change the arbitrary cutoff we've decided on- and it does absolutely nothing, apart from increase pressure and professionalizes children. They still can't play in the NHL, so what's the point?

 

[NotProkofievian]

If NHL teams can draft 16 year olds, then they may as well be able to draft 15 year olds too. And 14 year olds. And 13 year olds. Welcome to Montreal, Aron Kiviharju! Basically, the draft will turn into an entry draft for peewees with the odd 19-year-old Russian from Vladivostok going in the sixth round.

All you're proposing is to change the arbitrary cutoff we've decided on- and it does absolutely nothing, apart from increase pressure and professionalizes children. They still can't play in the NHL, so what's the point?

Before you know it, teams will be drafting literal embryos! Do you want Gattaca? Because that's how you get Gattaca!

It would increase the strength of each draft, and introduce an interesting trade off. Sure, you could draft a 16 year old. But there's a tradeoff. You have to wait for 2 years for this player. Anything could happen to the player in the meantime, and other players will be ready to play on your team sooner.

 

[SOLR]

They don't have the same problem. They have a solution which addresses our problem. Maybe that has its own particular issues, but they don't have kids like Nick Suzuki playing in the same junior league for 4 years, and they have a system which allows gradual increasing of difficulty for their lesser prospects. Actually, every nation other than Canada has more graduated steps for their prospects to the NHL available to them. We're alone in our pant-on-head NHL or Junior stupidity.

But this is also unrelated to my original contention, that NHL teams should be allowed to draft 16 year olds. Why should a team be forced to choose Aatu over Brad Lambert this year? Why shouldn't they already be able to choose Brad and wait the year to have him be able to attend an NHL training camp? They're the ones assuming the extra risk.

The draft shouldn't be seen as entertainment because it creates all kinds of weird incentives. What is the draft really for? To send the right talent to the right team, therefore the best way to do this is to move towards a NBA/MLB/Football-like age restriction of 21 years old. With 21 years old prospects, it's much easier and less risky for NHL teams to evaluate players.

I think Europeans have much of the same problem: a step hurdle that results in too many 19-20 years old quitting the sport.

We need a 16 team JNHL league that regroups all the best U21 talent (including the euros and Russians), just like the NHL regroups all U40 top talent.

This would free up some slots in all the domestic leagues (it might hurt the BCHL of this world).
It would improve the training of 19-20-21 tremendously, and allow for late bloomers to happen more regularly (late bloomers could still follow the domestic path).
JNHL would be the current entry-level structure. The arrival in the NHL would be RFA contract signing.
There are a good number of NHL aspiring cities that are not quite NHL-level in revenues. Canada: Quebec City, Halifax, Saskatoon, Victoria, Markham, Waterloo US: KC, Hartford, Portland, etc.

 

[NotProkofievian]

The draft shouldn't be seen as entertainment because it creates all kinds of weird incentives. What is the draft really for? To send the right talent to the right team, therefore the best way to do this is to move towards a NBA/MLB/Football-like age restriction of 21 years old. With 21 years old prospects, it's much easier and less risky for NHL teams to evaluate players.

That is a pretty bad idea, IMO. A 20 year old Auston Matthews belongs in the NHL.

I think Europeans have much of the same problem: a step hurdle that results in too many 19-20 years old quitting the sport.

They don't though. Your entire argument for a JNHL is to create an intermediate level of talent between junior and the NHL. Well, the europeans have that. And they have intermediate levels between their junior and top pro leagues. And for the ones who find that too daunting, they have access to the NCAA. I don't see how it's ''the same problem.''

We need a 16 team JNHL league that regroups all the best U21 talent (including the euros and Russians), just like the NHL regroups all U40 top talent.

This would free up some slots in all the domestic leagues (it might hurt the BCHL of this world).
It would improve the training of 19-20-21 tremendously, and allow for late bloomers to happen more regularly (late bloomers could still follow the domestic path).
JNHL would be the current entry-level structure. The arrival in the NHL would be RFA contract signing.
There are a good number of NHL aspiring cities that are not quite NHL-level in revenues. Canada: Quebec City, Halifax, Saskatoon, Victoria, Markham, Waterloo US: KC, Hartford, Portland, etc.

That doesn't sound so different from the CHL to me, and keeping prospects in the CHL for yet another year rather accentuates the problem of the CHL, rather than addressing it, IMO. The big opportunity that the euros get that Canadian kids don't is the ability to play above their age group, which this doesn't address.

 

[Habs76]

Before you know it, teams will be drafting literal embryos! Do you want Gattaca? Because that's how you get Gattaca!

It would increase the strength of each draft, and introduce an interesting trade off. Sure, you could draft a 16 year old. But there's a tradeoff. You have to wait for 2 years for this player. Anything could happen to the player in the meantime, and other players will be ready to play on your team sooner.

It wouldn't really increase the strength of the draft, though. You're taking those 16-year-olds out of the next year's draft, hindering it. Then making that up by taking 16-year-olds the year after. It will strengthen the very first draft after the rule change, that's it. Then when the league inevitably decides to go back to the original format, it'll weaken one draft. All it will do is make 17-year-olds the new overagers.

 

[SOLR]

That is a pretty bad idea, IMO. A 20 year old Auston Matthews belongs in the NHL.

Don't think so, not if you had a 19-20-21 circuit. They could benefit financially more(a lot more) from having Auston Matthews leading a team in the JNHL, than him playing at 20 years old not-leading at team in the NHL. Even if you take McDavid as the only exception to be made (Matthews has very little impact on NHL marketing thus far, he's not a league-wide star). Even watching McDavid play in that league of younglings would be whole lot better as a product. McDavid today >> McDavid at 19-20.

And there is no such things as "belonging" somewhere. There's only making money out of the talents of these hockey players. That's the only relevant aspect. The NHL vastly undersell their young stars and its a big problem in US marketing.

They don't though. Your entire argument for a JNHL is to create an intermediate level of talent between junior and the NHL. Well, the europeans have that. And they have intermediate levels between their junior and top pro leagues. And for the ones who find that too daunting, they have access to the NCAA. I don't see how it's ''the same problem.''

That doesn't sound so different from the CHL to me, and keeping prospects in the CHL for yet another year rather accentuates the problem of the CHL, rather than addressing it, IMO. The big opportunity that the euros get that Canadian kids don't is the ability to play above their age group, which this doesn't address.

The Europeans don't have that, they do it for their top picks, but what about the 3rd-7th rounders? If you are talking about the Allsvenskan or such league, this is like sending our top kids to the AHL. These leagues again will succeed with guys who can jump around 18 years old, but they fail so many. You are so biased by the top prospects it's quite alarming. The problem of no late bloomer is staring us in the face. Playing against less talented, older competition has its limits (as we see in the AHL). Scandinavian hockey is just out of a 15 years depression (1995-2010) caused by bad ideas in these development leagues.

It's very different from the CHL, because the JNHL would have the best Russian, US, Canadians, Swedish, Fins, Germans, Czech, Slovaks, and Swiss (etc.) - playing against each other earlier.

The JNHL takes the best out of all the domestic league, it's not just a "level between juniors and the NHL", its the WJC+ level for 3 years. Every year, there are 6 competitive teams at the WJC, but you could probably have 3 Canadian teams, 2 US teams and another good team with the few good players in the others teams, for 10 competitive teams. That's pretty healthy for a league of 16 teams. A JNHL draft would arrange a rotation between the teams.

I'm talking about organizing the "college football" equivalent for hockey. That's never going to be the NCAA, the reason college football is a dominant product is that they have 90% of the talent coming from the US (the US develop about 20% of the hockey talent right now? not sure whats the number, but we are far away from 90% of the talent produced in the US). So if the US can't produce it, they need to import it.

+Money talks: nobody is paying 19-20-21 players 3rd-4th rounder more than $50k in Europe. The JNHL could offer a lot more. And more than the AHL. It's the 2nd best hockey product possible, the WJC proves it every year. You would fill up Quebec City with a U22 team with Matthews as the star, and the NHL would make a lot more money (JNHL would be part of the system). It's much better to have a JNHL league salary capped at $30m plus the NHL ($85m) than just the NHL. Adding Matthews to the leafs doesn't add much to the salary cap of that league. Most of the revenues are structural (from selling access to an arena to a good addressable market). Moreover they could suddenly bundle these 2 products, and that could change market share vs others sports = positive network effects, leading to bigger TV rights.

What would happen to the CHL you ask, there would be a few more 16 years old playing there, all the best 17 (current D year) and 18 years old (current D+1 year), + all the players who don't quite make it in the JNHL (ie. not such a large decrease to the talent pool, given that they loose a lot of 19-20 years talent already). That would be the same for all the domestic leagues. The real hold up is the US system with the "schools".

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

2023 draft but my god Michkov is something else.

I've never felt comfortable saying about this about a 15 yearo ld, but barring injury he is a guaranteed 40+ goal scorer in the NHL.

 

[Habs76]

2023 draft but my god Michkov is something else.

I've never felt comfortable saying about this about a 15 yearo ld, but barring injury he is a guaranteed 40+ goal scorer in the NHL.

I got a chance to watch him play vs. Khabarovsk the other day. I mean, Khabarovsk is terrible, and SKA naturally dominated- but watching Michkov outshine high-end NHL draftees like Marat Khusnutdinov and Kirill Marchenko was a site to see. I'd easily say he was the most threatening player on the ice.

He and Bedard are gonna make for yet *another* amazing top-end of a draft class.

 

[FedorTyutin]

If you guys wanna laugh a bit, and if it's your humor style, I started a FB meme page, Daily reminder style. It's a video of Kaiden Guhle being drafted, posted on a daily basis, and with the text of what was said :

Daily reminder of quel joueur fut sélecté par les Canadiens en 2020

 

[Krnage]

what your guys think about Samuel Helenius ?