HF Habs: 2021 Montreal Canadiens Training Camp (Roster & Schedule - Camp Starts January 3rd)

[26Mats]

They're not waiving Byron man...You didn't hear Julien today?

They will try to keep everybody around by joggling with those paper moves.

I wsan't having a discussion about who they should waive.

I was responding to the poster who said they would save more cap space by waiving Evans versus waiving Byron.

That's just not the case.

 

[montreal]

The first 1.05M of any one way contract doesn't count against the cap when a player with a one way contract is sent down.

it's 1,075,000

this is the formula,

[Minimum Salary] + $375,000 = Total that can be buried

so in '21-'22 the league min goes from 700k to 750k so the amount you can bury goes from 1.075 to 1,125,000

 

[26Mats]

They're not waiving Byron man...You didn't hear Julien today?

They will try to keep everybody around by joggling with those paper moves.

For opening night, they have to waive/send down two forwards. from among Frolik, Perry, Byron, Lehkonen, and Evans...

Once they do the paper transaction thing, they can bring one of the two back up.

I heard CJ talk about how they've talked with Byron about the option of him playing center. But until they actually do it on opening night, or announce they will, I'm not convinced it's something CJ wants to actually due he's forced to because of injuries.

From this tweet by Engles about CJ's comments, it doesn't seem like Evans will be getting sent down:

Well.



"If someone got injured" sounds like taxi squad to me. We'll see if Engels' conclusion is correct.

 

[Deebs]

Is the scrimmage being broadcast tomorrow?

 

[Mrb1p]

Coaching definitely is an area where everyone thinks they can do it, few can do it well. Even though I played hockey competitively for years, I'm not qualified to be a coach. I have a better understanding of what happens and what works than most people for sure, I've had my good share of good coaches and bad coaches, that doesn't mean that I understand how to run a team as well as a good NHL coach.

CJ has gotten the Habs to be respectable with below average talent especially down the middle. The team got a lot better but he started with not working with a lot. When I see people claim they know better than him, they better have quite solid logic behind their arguments. I feel this is one of these examples where it just doesn't add up, the arguments I'm hearing for why you could make better decisions than him are falling flat to me, they make a lot less sense to others than you feel they do.

Yeah youre probably just part of that group of people I mentioned earlier, thats why.

Cya.

 

[dcyhabs]

He is part of our yin and yang gang and he has high standards as a Habs fan. If only the complaining can be toned down where he tries to not act like he is a better NHL coach vs Julien. I'm not even a huge Julien fan but I understand what he has and how he wants to use his assets while young guys are maturing.

Our fan base is dynamic IMO. I think we are the most critical of our own players and management than any other team in the NHL (as a whole).

Did you see the Leafs fan column a few years back where they compared their GM unfavourably to a potato? Montreal media is as bad, though, and don’t have the sense of humour. Plus you get guys like Lafleur saying crazy stuff every time his life goes off the rails.

 

[Belial]

I wsan't having a discussion about who they should waive.

I was responding to the poster who said they would save more cap space by waiving Evans versus waiving Byron.

That's just not the case.

And it's true that they would save more cap space in the long run by sending Evans down instead of waiving Byron.

Waiving Byron would give you more cap space right now but when you recall him his entire cap hit will be active again.

Sending Evans down will lower his cap hit depending on how many days he spends in the AHL.

When he gets recalled his cap hit will be lower so yeah, the team will save more cap space by sending down Evans.

For opening night, they have to waive/send down two forwards. from among Frolik, Perry, Byron, Lehkonen, and Evans...

Once they do the paper transaction thing, they can bring one of the two back up.

I heard CJ talk about how they've talked with Byron about the option of him playing center. But until they actually do it on opening night, or announce they will, I'm not convinced it's something CJ wants to actually due he's forced to because of injuries.

From this tweet by Engles about CJ's comments, it doesn't seem like Evans will be getting sent down:

This is what Julien said in french today: «Cette conversation n’a pas eu lieu dans notre entourage. Peut-être à l’extérieur, les gens pensent qu’il est en danger. Mais Byron est comme un couteau suisse. Il peut monter dans les trios, il apporte de la rapidité. Il a beaucoup d’atouts, c’est un gars difficile à trouver. Dans notre entourage, nous ne tenons pas la même discussion qu’à l’extérieur.»

Does that sound like they'll waive him?

They will not waive Lehkonen that's for sure he's like Julien's son.

They will not waive Perry because someone will definitely claim him.

So that leaves Frolik and Evans...

And again, Evans will be down briefly, then they'll have enough cap to call him back up.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Coaching definitely is an area where everyone thinks they can do it, few can do it well. Even though I played hockey competitively for years, I'm not qualified to be a coach. I have a better understanding of what happens and what works than most people for sure, I've had my good share of good coaches and bad coaches, that doesn't mean that I understand how to run a team as well as a good NHL coach.

CJ has gotten the Habs to be respectable with below average talent especially down the middle. The team got a lot better but he started with not working with a lot. When I see people claim they know better than him, they better have quite solid logic behind their arguments. I feel this is one of these examples where it just doesn't add up, the arguments I'm hearing for why you could make better decisions than him are falling flat to me, they make a lot less sense to others than you feel they do.

The utmost form of irony is posters talking about the dunning-kruger effect in relation with MB. You can't beat that. But yeah it all comes down to the same thing with armchair GMs and coaches. If you remove these types of posts you lose 90% of these boards content. Some would say that would be a good thing though.

 

[All Star John Scott]

If I wanted that I wouldve done that, it doesn't mean I can't be knowledgeable and that Juliens word supercedes mine because he's a coach that can't even get to .500 in the NHL.

Yes it does? He's a professional and you arnt, that immediately gives his opinion more weight.

 

[Just Linda]

The utmost form of irony is posters talking about the dunning-kruger effect in relation with MB. You can't beat that. But yeah it all comes down to the same thing with armchair GMs and coaches. If you remove these types of posts you lose 90% of these boards content. Some would say that would be a good thing though.

I can create good teams on NHL 16 so therefore I could build a good team in real life. I see that a lot, meanwhile the person doesn't realize that an NHL team is a business with humans. I was traded once to a team run by a guy who was pretty much the old school version of an NHL 16 GM. He traded for all the best players he could get (and me too). Ah man, it was the worst team I've ever been on. No chemistry, a bunch of hotheads trying to decide they were our captains, we didn't really know each other or care about each other. We didn't mesh on the ice, we all hated our goalie and like half the guys wouldn't even backcheck some nights to support him. We were just all parts thrown together because we could all skate fast. After a brutal get where we completely got dominated, the room just gave up. It was brutal. A lot of guys asked for trades that year.

 

[26Mats]

And it's true that they would save more cap space in the long run by sending Evans down instead of waiving Byron.

Waiving Byron would give you more cap space right now but when you recall him his entire cap hit will be active again.

Sending Evans down will lower his cap hit depending on how many days he spends in the AHL.

When he gets recalled his cap hit will be lower so yeah, the team will save more cap space by sending down Evans.



This is what Julien said in french today: «Cette conversation n’a pas eu lieu dans notre entourage. Peut-être à l’extérieur, les gens pensent qu’il est en danger. Mais Byron est comme un couteau suisse. Il peut monter dans les trios, il apporte de la rapidité. Il a beaucoup d’atouts, c’est un gars difficile à trouver. Dans notre entourage, nous ne tenons pas la même discussion qu’à l’extérieur.»

Does that sound like they'll waive him?

They will not waive Lehkonen that's for sure he's like Julien's son.

They will not waive Perry because someone will definitely claim him.

So that leaves Frolik and Evans...

And again, Evans will be down briefly, then they'll have enough cap to call him back up.

I'm not sure which rules you're refering to that Byron's entire cap hit comes back on the books once recalled. They could do a paper transaction with Byron and save for the days he's down, just like Evan's, is my understanding...

Claude's comments show they aren't looking to get rid of him or trade him. But, if they don't think any team will claim him because of his high cap hit, then waiving him for a few games for cap reasons won't be getting rid of him...

I think Frolik is one of the guys who will be waived and sent down. Who will the other be? I don't think it will be Evans because I think they want him at center. It could be him because they don't have to worry about losing hin to waivers. BUT, they also want to ice the best team opening night. I can't see them starting off with Byron at 4c. Just can't see it. Like you said, I doubt it will be Lehkonen. My best guess? If Perry doesn't move into the top 12 by the end of camp, it will be him. Why would CJ keep him on the 5th line if he planned on using him the top 12? My 2nd best guess? Byron. Again because management may make the calculated risk that no one will claim him because of his salary, so there's really no risk in waiving him, then calling him back up once there's enough cap space.

 

[Just Linda]

I'm not sure which rules you're refering to that Byron's entire cap hit comes back on the books once rec as liked. They could do a paper transaction with Byron and save for the days he's down, just like Evan's, is my understanding...

Claude's comments show they aren't looking tut o get rid of him or trade him. But, if they don't think any team will cl as I'm him because of his high cap hit, then waiving him for a few games for cap reasons won't be getting rid of him...

I think Frolik is one of the guys who will be waived and sent down. Who will the other be? I don't think it will be Evans because I think they want him at center. It could be him because they don't have to worry about losing hin to waivers. BUT, they also want to ice the best team opening night. I can't see them starting off with Byron at 4c. Just can't see it. Like you said, I doubt it we I'll be Lehkonen. My best guess? If Perry doesn't move into the top 12 by the end of camp, it will be him. Why would CJ keep him on the 5th line if he planned on using him the top 12? My 2nd best guess? Byron. Ag as in because management may make the calculated risk that no one will claim him because of his salary, so there's really no risk in waiving him, the calling him back up once there's enough cap space.

Weal?

 

[26Mats]

Weal?

Weal will be waived. But we can only start the season with 12F and 7D and 2G. So Weal, Frolik, Poehling, Ouellet, McNiven, and one more player from team A need to be sent down.

 

[Belial]

I'm not sure which rules you're refering to that Byron's entire cap hit comes back on the books once recalled. They could do a paper transaction with Byron and save for the days he's down, just like Evan's, is my understanding...

No, that's the thing.

Byron makes the same salary no matter where he plays.

The reason it works with Evans it's because he's getting an AHL salary when he's down.

Again because management may make the calculated risk that no one will claim him because of his salary, so there's really no risk in waiving him, then calling him back up once there's enough cap space.

Calculated risk? But why risk? What's the point? It's not like Evans is our first line center or something, the guy has 19 NHL games...

I'm not even sure why they didn't bring in a veteran 4th line center.

They will probably get one at the TDL.

And for calling back Byron when there's enough caps space, well there will never be enough cap space, with him down nothing changes for the cap, it stays flat.

 

[FormerLurker]

No, that's the thing.

Byron makes the same salary no matter where he plays.

The reason it works with Evans it's because he's getting an AHL salary when he's down.



Calculated risk? But why risk? What's the point? It's not like Evans is our first line center or something, the guy has 19 NHL games...

I'm not even sure why they didn't bring in a veteran 4th line center.

They will probably get one at the TDL.

And for calling back Byron when there's enough caps space, well there will never be enough cap space, with him down nothing changes for the cap, it stays flat.

What he makes is irrelevant, it's the cap hit that matters. Even though Byron would earn his full salary, sending him down to the AHL saves $1,075,000 on the cap (daily prorated), while sending Evans down saves just $750,000 on the cap (daily prorated).

Note that I'm not suggesting Byron should be one of the ones sent down, I'm just stating that it would save more on the cap.

 

[Belial]

What he makes is irrelevant, it's the cap hit that matters. Even though Byron would earn his full salary, sending him down to the AHL saves $1,075,000 on the cap (daily prorated), while sending Evans down saves just $750,000 on the cap (daily prorated).

Note that I'm not suggesting Byron should be one of the ones sent down, I'm just stating that it would save more on the cap.

Read the whole discussion.

 

[FormerLurker]

Read the whole discussion.

I read the discussion. You have the mistaken belief that the cap hit is dependent on whether the contract is 1 way or 2 way and that the full 1 way salary counts against the cap if the player is sent down. This isn't true and has been pointed out multiple times in this and many other threads.

 

[FormerLurker]

Yeah youre probably just part of that group of people I mentioned earlier, thats why.
Cya.

You don't see me trying to explain advanced economics or quantum physics here, its hockey. The majority are stupid and or uneducated, the hockey world is a good example of that, its not easy to shine through in this field.

Is that the group you're referring to, i.e. you are implying that Just Linda falls into this group?

One of the distinguishing characteristics of intelligence is having the capacity to understand one's limitations and the ability to recognize where one doesn't have expertise. It appears that Just Linda has this capacity while you don't.

 

[Belial]

I read the discussion. You have the mistaken belief that the cap hit is dependent on whether the contract is 1 way or 2 way and that the full 1 way salary counts against the cap if the player is sent down. This isn't true and has been pointed out multiple times in this and many other threads.

That's not what's being discussed.

 

[FormerLurker]

That's not what's being discussed.

That IS what's being discussed. You said "And it's true that they would save more cap space in the long run by sending Evans down instead of waiving Byron." This isn't true.

The fact that Evans is on a 2 way salary is irrelevant. Let's say the regular season is 125 days long. Each day Byron is in the AHL the Habs save 1/125 * $1,075,000 on the cap, i.e. $8,600. Each day Evans is in the AHL they save 1/125 * $750,000, i.e. $6,000.

 

[Belial]

That IS what's being discussed. You said "And it's true that they would save more cap space in the long run by sending Evans down instead of waiving Byron." This isn't true.

The fact that Evans is on a 2 way salary is irrelevant. Let's say the regular season is 125 days long. Each day Byron is in the AHL the Habs save 1/125 * $1,075,000 on the cap, i.e. $8,600. Each day Evans is in the AHL they save 1/125 * $750,000, i.e. $6,000.

You're right, for some reason I thought there was no deduction happening on a daily basis on that 1M$. Got confused in numbers.

And this is not because I confused the one-way with two-way contracts.

I know there's that 1,075M$ that's getting buried when someone with a one-way contract gets sent down.

I just didn't know that it works as if he was being paid an AHL salary towards the final cap hit.

So the confusion was in something else.

 

[The Great Weal]

I dont know why teams would definitely claim Perry. I wouldnt be surprised if no other team was interested. There will also likely be better options available.

 

[Number 57]

A lot of people here don't seem to understand that Montreal is OVER the cap and that more likely than not Weal, Kulak AND Byron will be waived to save some cash.

Remember that in a year where the team will finally be competitive, cap space will be important in order to add a key player at the trade deadline. Can't do that if we're up against it.

While sending down Evans or Frolik or Perry seems reasonable, it doesn't save much cap because they are making minimum salary.

 

[FrankMTL]

So this is happening today. Will be nice to see some sort of competition even though I'm sure it won't be very physical.



Even with these "simulated games" I can't see how players won't be rusty the first few games of the year...I don't think it will be the "prettiest" hockey to start the year.

Teams that gel the quickest will have a better chance to rack up some points at the start of the season.

 

[Treb]

You're right, for some reason I thought there was no deduction happening on a daily basis on that 1M$. Got confused in numbers.

And this is not because I confused the one-way with two-way contracts.

I know there's that 1,075M$ that's getting buried when someone with a one-way contract gets sent down.

I just didn't know that it works as if he was being paid an AHL salary towards the final cap hit.

So the confusion was in something else.

Salary cap is calculated daily. The NHL season will be 116 days.

Jake Evans in the AHL/Byron up saves 6.47k per day.
Jake Evans up/Byron in the AHL saves 9.27k per day.

2.8k of space per day is not worth risking losing Byron IMO.

The easy way to gain cap space would be to send Evans, KK, Suzuki and Romanov down between games, thus saving 29.59k (6.47+7.97+7.44+7.71) without requiring any waivers. Evans would only need to miss the Toronto game on the 13 and the team would be camp compliant for the next game with him up.