Speculation: 2021-22 Sharks Roster Discussion Part XI

[Barrie22]

Seriously, why does everyone think that Labanc has no trade value? Let’s give him time to establish his game so it can be determined whether he is better off staying with the team or whether he should be traded. I’m so glad management doesn’t just throw away players or assets like it is often suggested on these boards.

How much time do we give him? 10 years? 15 years? He is 26 years old and already has 6 seasons under his belt, this is not some rookie who has untapped potential, he is at the point of his career where he is what he should be and he has gotten worse each and every single year.

 

[Hodge]

How much time do we give him? 10 years? 15 years? He is 26 years old and already has 6 seasons under his belt, this is not some rookie who has untapped potential, he is at the point of his career where he is what he should be and he has gotten worse each and every single year.

He's a career half point per game scorer. That's lower end second line production and his underlying numbers are consistently good as well. He's not a bad or useless player he's just overpaid.

 

[sharks_dynasty]

How much time do we give him? 10 years? 15 years? He is 26 years old and already has 6 seasons under his belt, this is not some rookie who has untapped potential, he is at the point of his career where he is what he should be and he has gotten worse each and every single year.

The guy is just coming back from shoulder injury. Give him till mid season (and hopefully with a better coach that knows how to deploy him correctly) before considering next steps.

 

[STL Shark]

For Labanc you either play him as the 3rd best player on a top 6 Line or you buy him out. If they are looking to save cap I would rather buy Labanc out instead of Vlassic. It provides more cap savings with a shorter and smaller penalty in the future. I actually think this is part of why they decided to shut him down for the rest of the season. I don't think he has any trade value and the asset to trade him is not worth the small cap penalty of a buy out.

Wrong. Unless you can demonstrate that he is fully healthy (which would be done by playing him) then you can't buy him out period.

Re: Vlasic, either you buy him out this year or you're saddled with him being garbage for the remainder of his contract. Due to his signing bonus structure, you either buy him out now and get 2 years of a significant cap savings this year and next or you let it ride because no matter what, the final two years of his contract are going to be expensive due to signing bonuses and the cap savings will be minimal (2.8 million and 1.8 million respectively).

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Seriously, why does everyone think that Labanc has no trade value? Let’s give him time to establish his game so it can be determined whether he is better off staying with the team or whether he should be traded. I’m so glad management doesn’t just throw away players or assets like it is often suggested on these boards.

Because he's injured, overpaid, and not a driver of play. 6 points in 21 games at 4.725 isn't going to garner any interest.

Wrong. Unless you can demonstrate that he is fully healthy (which would be done by playing him) then you can't buy him out period.

Re: Vlasic, either you buy him out this year or you're saddled with him being garbage for the remainder of his contract. Due to his signing bonus structure, you either buy him out now and get 2 years of a significant cap savings this year and next or you let it ride because no matter what, the final two years of his contract are going to be expensive due to signing bonuses and the cap savings will be minimal (2.8 million and 1.8 million respectively).

They can be with consent but they're going to deem him healthy this offseason if they shut him down. You can buy Vlasic out next year too. You do it if space is needed to keep Meier. Otherwise just ride it out.

 

[timorous me]

Scoring is just ridiculous this year - Are Timo/Hertl even top end 1st liners? Timo is seemingly having a elite season but looking at the scoring chart he is 29th in points sandwiched between Sam Reinhart - Robert Thomas - Chris Kreider. Seems like they would make up an elite second line - Team needs to somehow luck into a franchise #1 center and let Couture play on his wing,

I don't think this is exactly an apples-to-apples situation. If you put our guys in a different system, surrounded by more high-end talent, I think they'd be putting up numbers that would elevate their places in the overall scoring standings.

 

[timorous me]

There's a chance, but it's hard to know with Boughner. He seems more interested in attempting to not lose than allowing players to play and develop right now.

I know the writing is on the wall for some of our Barracuda players--their lack of call-ups seems to be a sign that the organization isn't interested in moving forward with them beyond this year--but I still find it quite troubling that there's been so little push to bring up and integrate more young guys into the lineup down the stretch this season. Putting Simek out there as a forward only highlights this issue.

That said, I don't fully blame Boughner for this. It should be an organizational thing, not just your head coach's decision. Obviously our head (DW) has been cut off, but when the job search is presented to us as not urgent because Joe Will and others have "got this" for the time being, I can't help but be concerned because it seems to me the organization lacks any direction and focus right now.

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

I know Pederson gets hated on alot around here but at 24 yrs old, I think a case could be made he hasn't hit his ceiling just yet. Hes got 18 pts in 19 games in the AHL. Strong numbers. Would like to see him translate that into production next year with the big club. Just didn't get it done in his time up with the Sharks this year but I thought he did some good things and showed some flashes of skill and smart play. Im still hopeful for him.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I know Pederson gets hated on alot around here but at 24 yrs old, I think a case could be made he hasn't hit his ceiling just yet. Hes got 18 pts in 19 games in the AHL. Strong numbers. Would like to see him translate that into production next year with the big club. Just didn't get it done in his time up with the Sharks this year but I thought he did some good things and showed some flashes of skill and smart play. Im still hopeful for him.

Seems more likely that he's just one of the many players who can produce in the AHL but can't find a spot in the NHL.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Sorry, let me clarify. I meant prior form to injury. Teams that trade for him will want to make sure he is still the same player more or less before making the trade.

Gotcha. Either way it'll take some pot sweetening to get something back with more upside. I don't know what the buy out looks like for him but I wouldn't be against it if they can't dump him. They're going to have to do more than bring in SHL all stars if they want to make the playoffs next season.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

I know Pederson gets hated on alot around here but at 24 yrs old, I think a case could be made he hasn't hit his ceiling just yet. Hes got 18 pts in 19 games in the AHL. Strong numbers. Would like to see him translate that into production next year with the big club. Just didn't get it done in his time up with the Sharks this year but I thought he did some good things and showed some flashes of skill and smart play. Im still hopeful for him.

He hasn't hit his ceiling yet. People are too impatient. Not saying he will develop for sure but I would just keep him as long as it's feasible and continue trying to get consistency out of him. He had a call up a couple weeks ago and where he was pretty great for a 4C. He also had a few games early in the season where he was very good. He's just got to learn how to bring it every game. He should be watching every shift of Bonino to see what he needs to do to stay in the lineup.

 

[Barrie22]

He's a career half point per game scorer. That's lower end second line production and his underlying numbers are consistently good as well. He's not a bad or useless player he's just overpaid.

The guy is just coming back from shoulder injury. Give him till mid season (and hopefully with a better coach that knows how to deploy him correctly) before considering next steps.

He has been tried on the 1st line, failed.
He has been tried on the 2nd line, failed.

If he can't succeed with hert/meier/couture/kane as his line mates while making 4+ million then there is nothing that can be done outside of maybe bringing in mcdavid and draisatl to be his linemates.

 

[Barrie22]

He's a career half point per game scorer. That's lower end second line production and his underlying numbers are consistently good as well. He's not a bad or useless player he's just overpaid.

He has not produced anywhere, outside of being dragged and carried by thornton that 1 year. They have tried him on the top line, 2nd line, 3rd line away from thornton. Each and every line he has failed on, and then he got injured which was a blessing because the sharks could then use his over bloated cap hit elsewhere.

 

[Hodge]

He has not produced anywhere, outside of being dragged and carried by thornton that 1 year. They have tried him on the top line, 2nd line, 3rd line away from thornton. Each and every line he has failed on, and then he got injured which was a blessing because the sharks could then use his over bloated cap hit elsewhere.

He literally scored at a 42 point pace last season playing mostly with Couture and Kane.

 

[Barrie22]

He literally scored at a 42 point pace last season playing mostly with Couture and Kane.

A 40 point 1st liner making nearly 5 million dollars, great. So we have 3rd line numbers making 2nd line money, playing on the 1st line.

But lets just keep him, losing is fun and is what every wants by giving the over priced players more time to fail.

And this does not even take into account he is one of the worst forwards on the team at the defensive side of the game on the team.

 

[Cas]

And this does not even take into account he is one of the worst forwards on the team at the defensive side of the game on the team.

That's a rare talent. There aren't many forwards in the league who could compete for that title.

 

[Hodge]

A 40 point 1st liner making nearly 5 million dollars, great. So we have 3rd line numbers making 2nd line money, playing on the 1st line.

But lets just keep him, losing is fun and is what every wants by giving the over priced players more time to fail.

And this does not even take into account he is one of the worst forwards on the team at the defensive side of the game on the team.

0.5 points per game is low end second line production, even this season where offense has exploded across the league.

Labanc is obviously overpaid which is exactly why trading him this offseason would be shortsighted.

They need to rebuild his value by playing him in the top six and on the power play in the hopes he can stay healthy and score 45-50 points.

Then you trade him in the 2023 offseason. It's not like they need the cap space until then anyway.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

If the team was worried about Labanc’s value, they wouldn’t be shutting him down for the season when they’re playing Simek at forward. I’ll be surprised if Labanc isn’t bought out at this stage.

 

[WTFetus]

If the team was worried about Labanc’s value, they wouldn’t be shutting him down for the season when they’re playing Simek at forward. I’ll be surprised if Labanc isn’t bought out at this stage.

Are you expecting both Labanc and Simek to be bought out? That doesn’t seem reasonable no matter how rich Hasso is.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Are you expecting both Labanc and Simek to be bought out? That doesn’t seem reasonable no matter how rich Hasso is.

Simek, no. They can use a warm body on defense next year but Labanc yeah, I do.

 

[Hodge]

Buying Labanc out this offseason would be idiotic. At least give him a full season in the top six and see if he plays well enough to be tradable with a year left on his deal. If he doesn't you can always buy him out next offseason and save a year of dead cap hit.

 

[timorous me]

Buying Labanc out this offseason would be idiotic. At least give him a full season in the top six and see if he plays well enough to be tradable with a year left on his deal. If he doesn't you can always buy him out next offseason and save a year of dead cap hit.

I know people are down on Labanc, and for good reason, but you have to take a lot of factors into account when deciding on a buyout, and I don't think he fits the bill.

Is there potential for Labanc to rebound? First you look at his age: 26. This year was a lost year. Was he atrocious last year? I wouldn't say he was good, but he wasn't a complete lost cause. His salary isn't a giant albatross. He needs to step it up, and be utilized better (both at even strength and especially the power play, where he has the potential to be something of a power play specialist), but there's reason to believe he could still be a decent contributor, if not worth his whole salary. And he only has two years left on that deal.

Compare him to Martin Jones. There's a case where the buyout made sense. Compare him to Marc-Edouard Vlasic. There's another buyout that makes sense, particularly if the front office is going to attempt to build a better team. Take Vlasic's age, take his extended trajectory, take his potential for rebounding (basically zero at this point), take the contract length and salary. Big, big difference compared to Labanc, if you ask me.

 

[tiburon12]

If I'm the new Sharks management, I'm canning Boughner (obv) and bringing in a college coach or someone with experience with young, creative players. With Reimer and Khakonen in nets, the team can absolutely lean more on offense than play this boring and offense-averse system.

With a coach like this in place for a few seasons, the team can better transition to a younger game where skill wins games. COL, CAR, FLA, TOR, and other top teams win with skill and creativity, and while the Sharks certainly don't have the rosters those teams have, if they start developing their young guys in a system that highlights their skills, the team overall will be in a better position 1-3 years down the line.

Plus, a system like that will better make use of Karlsson and Burns. And even if that system creates too many defensive problems, it may boost the trade value of Burns or Couture or whomever may want/need to be moved.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

If I'm the new Sharks management, I'm canning Boughner (obv) and bringing in a college coach or someone with experience with young, creative players. With Reimer and Khakonen in nets, the team can absolutely lean more on offense than play this boring and offense-averse system.

With a coach like this in place for a few seasons, the team can better transition to a younger game where skill wins games. COL, CAR, FLA, TOR, and other top teams win with skill and creativity, and while the Sharks certainly don't have the rosters those teams have, if they start developing their young guys in a system that highlights their skills, the team overall will be in a better position 1-3 years down the line.

Plus, a system like that will better make use of Karlsson and Burns. And even if that system creates too many defensive problems, it may boost the trade value of Burns or Couture or whomever may want/need to be moved.

As like a tertiary benefit of what you described, they would be much more entertaining to watch. I know the org has to at least pay lip service to “competing” but I think we can all see that the team is a ways away from seriously doing that. At the very least they could try to be entertaining.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

I know people are down on Labanc, and for good reason, but you have to take a lot of factors into account when deciding on a buyout, and I don't think he fits the bill.

Is there potential for Labanc to rebound? First you look at his age: 26. This year was a lost year. Was he atrocious last year? I wouldn't say he was good, but he wasn't a complete lost cause. His salary isn't a giant albatross. He needs to step it up, and be utilized better (both at even strength and especially the power play, where he has the potential to be something of a power play specialist), but there's reason to believe he could still be a decent contributor, if not worth his whole salary. And he only has two years left on that deal.
Compare him to Martin Jones. There's a case where the buyout made sense. Compare him to Marc-Edouard Vlasic. There's another buyout that makes sense, particularly if the front office is going to attempt to build a better team. Take Vlasic's age, take his extended trajectory, take his potential for rebounding (basically zero at this point), take the contract length and salary. Big, big difference compared to Labanc, if you ask me.

They intended to compete for the playoffs so it's too big a risk to go in with his salary slot not producing in the top 6. They have to jettison him somehow without retaining more than 1mil so they can use that money somewhere else to improve scoring. At this point he doesn't generate scoring enough for his salary and the track record is getting long. Time to go IMO.

MEV buyout is twice as long and doesn't provide as much benefit in to of the important years. I'm fine if they do it but it'll take more than that to generate cap space for needed additions.