2021/22 Roster Thread XVI: Onto the trade deadline (March 21) and beyond

[Cody Webster]

Isn’t it generally accepted that the 2023 draft is better than the 2022 draft? Are people really criticizing the Flyers for acquiring picks in a deeper draft?

Feels like if they would have acquired 2022 picks the same posters would complain about them not getting 2023 picks instead.

Deeper maybe in the first round, it doesn't matter when you get to the third round. Enough with the justifications

 

[Ghosts Beer]

If it’s a deeper first round, then all else being equal it’s a deeper rest of the draft, unless the other rounds are shallower than usual.

 

[deadhead]

Lol

ITYS. Look forward to seeing him on the Flyers, this is a "ZIto move," look at Marchment who started in the ECHL, then 3 years in the AHL, Zito trades Maglin for him, and has become a top six forward. Not saying Hodgson will be that good, but Marchment didn't make the NHL until he was 25.

Finding cheap assets like this is one key to being competitive, it's been the MO in TB and Florida.
It's something the Flyers haven't done under Holmgren and Hextall, Lindblom is the only "find" I can think of, Myers seemed to be, Zamula may turn out to be.
But the Flyers never found those college FAs, AHL under the radar types, etc. VdV, Luby, Manning, Varone, Knight, etc. - that was about the best they could do.
Willman and MacEwen seem to be more of the same, not enough skill to even stand out on the 4th line.

 

[Nizzle]

Matt Read was good for a while

 

[Strawberry Fields]

Here's my take no one asked for, because I'm mostly here for the memes and laughs.

The Brassard move is fine to me. My issue is not even attempting to acquire any 2022 picks in a year where you're already floundering and blew your second rounder. Ignore the bungling of the whole Giroux shit show. Teams love dmen like Braun in the playoffs. There wasn't a single team that offered up a 2022 2nd? The Rangers, who had two (yes, they traded one for Copp)? You're trading a guy you've been playing on your top pair to a rival and not forcing every bit of value you can?

Martin Jones. It's a lost season. You're going nowhere. Teams want goalies (Edmonton flatout inquired about him months ago, Toronto lost the guy they just signed as insurance to waivers). You have young goalies the pipeline you've barely given a look. Why keep him? No one's offering a 5th for him (perhaps even a desperate 4th)? The Phantoms excuse, screw that. The Phantoms, even if they squeak into the AHL playoffs, aren't going far, I'm sorry.

There's nothing wrong with picking up some lottery tickets for down the road. But you've barely made any picks the last couple years. The cupboards are getting bare again and you suck again. Why not go for some now, when you need them and have already squandered some of them? Outside of G, no one is under the illusion that we had the level of moveable assets that Montreal or Anaheim did, but there's still no reason you have to settle or tie your own hands on every. Single. Move.

 

[Tarpongg]

WHAT?!

Just had a mini heart attack thinking… when things get so bad the team finally has to pull the trigger on Chuck, watch Flahr become interim, and eventually permanent GM, after an exhaustive interview process of course

 

[deadhead]

Flahr seems to be a better drafter than Hextall, who really didn't do much else after his first season other than sign JVR and Weise and trade for Mrazek.

 

[FLYguy3911]

They were in a different position but let's just pretend that Zegras goes the way of Patrick. Suddenly they wouldn't seem like such a promising team on the rise.

This team was just dealt a bad set of cards at every occasion and it ultimately led to them being stuck with the worst GM in the league to make sure its lasts.

I'm just talking about this deadline.

The Ducks sold off Manson, Lindholm, Rackell, Deslauriers and used cap space to absorb Dadonov's contract. A good GM turns Giroux, Risto, Braun (and Brassard and Jones) into a similar collection of picks. FYI, the WAR calculations have the Ducks players that went out worth a combined ~0.5 win this year. Even with Risto in the negatives, the Flyers group has been worth ~3 wins this year.

*Anaheim also got Calle Clang who is an excellent goalie prospect (not Hextall's best trade).

This deadline, starting with the Ristolainen extension, was a failure.

 

[Psuhockey]

I just don't know how you could have any confidence projecting the quality of the 2022 third and fourth rounds much less the 2023 third and fourth rounds. It's just such a ridiculous preference and shows their incompetence. These teams have draft boards of less than 100 players usually. If you are good at your jobs, most of those names are going to be gone by the time those rounds roll around. How many names could you possibly have on a 2023 draft board at this point?

They had a 5 player 2020 draft because of the pandemic. They punted on the 2021 draft also because of the pandemic and the picks they did make mostly stunk. They did not add a single 2022 draft pick in a non-competitive season and have a pick in the 30s going to Arizona because they can't evaluate talent. I mean at some point you have to make some picks if you want to improve the (putrid) roster.

This just reeks of Flahr pulling up to Chuck's office and saying 'hey everyone is saying 2023 is the year, we should target those picks' without sitting down and doing the math on it (yes you can do the math on these things). The talent levels out at a certain point every single year and it's well before the third round.

Hopefully Flahr and Fletcher won’t be making the picks in 2013 so it might actually by accident work out for the Flyers.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Hopefully Flahr and Fletcher won’t be making the picks in 2013 so it might actually by accident work out for the Flyers.

I'd like a re-do on the 2013 draft also.

 

[Psuhockey]

I'd like a re-do on the 2013 draft also.

Should of taken Pulock over Morin.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Finishing in the bottom 5 and gained no picks for this year's draft during the trade deadline. And some people are still defending this shit

bottoms gunna bottom.

 

[deadhead]

I'm just talking about this deadline.

The Ducks sold off Manson, Lindholm, Rackell, Deslauriers and used cap space to absorb Dadonov's contract. A good GM turns Giroux, Risto, Braun (and Brassard and Jones) into a similar collection of picks. FYI, the WAR calculations have the Ducks players that went out worth a combined ~0.5 win this year. Even with Risto in the negatives, the Flyers group has been worth ~3 wins this year.

*Anaheim also got Calle Clang who is an excellent goalie prospect (not Hextall's best trade).

This deadline, starting with the Ristolainen extension, was a failure.

Now, had the Flyers traded Risto, yes, they could have had a good haul. But don't take the WAR too seriously, I don't think GMs value players based on this year's WAR, rather, the player's career and how they think they'll fit.

Lindholm probably agreed to an extension as part of the trade. That upped his value.
Risto would have brought more than Manson
Rackell is younger and more durable than Brassard.

 

[deadhead]

I don't think they're that concerned with 2022 later picks, one thing Hextall did was leave a bunch of later draft picks that have taken a long time to arrive, but will be showing up this year, Cates, Lycksell, Fedotov, as well as Fletcher/Flahr's first draft, Brink, Attard, and 2nd draft, Foerster, Wisdom, Desnoyers, McClennon, with York and Zamula and the AHL players they're keeping. So more depth prospects isn't a priority, the offseason need is quality, #5 or so will help.

 

[smokey]

Tippett, Frost and Rat are all pending RFA's. Allison and Lac are eligible for arbitration. Sandstrom is a pending G6UFA. Even ignoring all the other pending RFA's they should or should not re-sign, that's at least 6 mill off of next years projected cap space of around 8 mill. Who the heck are they going to sign in the summer? Also, quite funny to think that even without the extensions to Frost or Tippett (or any other pending RFA), next years roster will cost just slightly over 1 mill less than it does today. And that's a roster lacking a back up goalie.

 

[AdamParrot]

I was thinking about the Flyers and what I'd do/make if I was a GM of the Flyers since next summer.

I would listen offers for EVERY player on the team.

My only players, who could be fit (and also have at least OK contract) in my lineups are:

xxx-Couturier-Konecny
Farabee-xxx-xxx
Lindblom-Frost-Allison
xxx-xxx-xxx

Sanhiem-Ellis
York-xxx
Hogberg/Zamula-xxx

Hart
xxx

That's 9 holes. NINE.

LOL.

And also I doubt that someone would trade for players like Hayes or Ristolainen, lmao.

 

[Petr Svoboda Mullet]

Tippett, Frost and Rat are all pending RFA's. Allison and Lac are eligible for arbitration. Sandstrom is a pending G6UFA. Even ignoring all the other pending RFA's they should or should not re-sign, that's at least 6 mill off of next years projected cap space of around 8 mill. Who the heck are they going to sign in the summer? Also, quite funny to think that even without the extensions to Frost or Tippett (or any other pending RFA), next years roster will cost just slightly over 1 mill less than it does today. And that's a roster lacking a back up goalie.

As far as I can tell, they’ll have enough cap space to sign their RFA’s, a back up goalie and probably a low cost vet center and defensemen. This team is going to be garbage next year.

 

[Striiker]

Tippett, Frost and Rat are all pending RFA's. Allison and Lac are eligible for arbitration. Sandstrom is a pending G6UFA. Even ignoring all the other pending RFA's they should or should not re-sign, that's at least 6 mill off of next years projected cap space of around 8 mill. Who the heck are they going to sign in the summer? Also, quite funny to think that even without the extensions to Frost or Tippett (or any other pending RFA), next years roster will cost just slightly over 1 mill less than it does today. And that's a roster lacking a back up goalie.

Don’t worry about cap space. Chuck will open up tons by removing good players, that way he can keep all the bad ones and add new bad ones.

JVR is most likely and then probably at least one of TK or Sanheim will be traded. That’s around $11-12m right there, minus whatever awful trash we get in return.

Next year will be just like this one, except even worse.

 

[Curufinwe]

Giroux had his presser today and flat out declined to answer if Fla was his only choice. We all know G, he’s not going to step outside the line on this stuff. That means Fletcher must have notified teams that G just wanted to go to Fla. G likely did not leak it. That’s terrible terrible negotiating. Just tell Florida that they are looking at getting something big from another team. Thai guy is a doofus. I really and truly think he’s a doofus.

I don't get why people indulge in these sorts of mental gymnastics to avoid the reality that Giroux only wanted to go to Florida that we've already had confirmed from a bunch of different sources, including the GM of Colorado.

 

[landsbergfan]

Here's my take no one asked for, because I'm mostly here for the memes and laughs.

The Brassard move is fine to me. My issue is not even attempting to acquire any 2022 picks in a year where you're already floundering and blew your second rounder. Ignore the bungling of the whole Giroux shit show. Teams love dmen like Braun in the playoffs. There wasn't a single team that offered up a 2022 2nd? The Rangers, who had two (yes, they traded one for Copp)? You're trading a guy you've been playing on your top pair to a rival and not forcing every bit of value you can?

Martin Jones. It's a lost season. You're going nowhere. Teams want goalies (Edmonton flatout inquired about him months ago, Toronto lost the guy they just signed as insurance to waivers). You have young goalies the pipeline you've barely given a look. Why keep him? No one's offering a 5th for him (perhaps even a desperate 4th)? The Phantoms excuse, screw that. The Phantoms, even if they squeak into the AHL playoffs, aren't going far, I'm sorry.

There's nothing wrong with picking up some lottery tickets for down the road. But you've barely made any picks the last couple years. The cupboards are getting bare again and you suck again. Why not go for some now, when you need them and have already squandered some of them? Outside of G, no one is under the illusion that we had the level of moveable assets that Montreal or Anaheim did, but there's still no reason you have to settle or tie your own hands on every. Single. Move.

There was so much lost value, and when you combine it with knowing Fletcher will be shipping out picks over the next two drafts in an attempt at "winning now" it is even more ominous.

Wouldn't surprise me if we make 4 picks this draft

 

[landsbergfan]

Development! Surely we see Frost back at wing so they can get Nate Thompson back in the mix

 

[Beef Invictus]

Development! Surely we see Frost back at wing so they can get Nate Thompson back in the mix

It's very important to see what the young guys can do in a lost season.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

How in the f*** does Fletch at this point think it's worth playing Nate when he's not an NHLer at all anymore? Why not play any of the actual kids we f***ing have? What point does this serve? Oh right, because he has to give a name to Dave Scott to reiterate and someone for him to stroke to...

f*** you Chuck.

 

[TheKingPin]

I don't get why people indulge in these sorts of mental gymnastics to avoid the reality that Giroux only wanted to go to Florida that we've already had confirmed from a bunch of different sources, including the GM of Colorado.

Not the point. The point is it doesn’t matter what G wanted to do. He likely was quiet on it and Fletcher likely told teams like Boston “Sorry he just wants Florida”. He should not be doing that but it seems certain he was. He’s an idiot in terms of street smarts. I should know, I was more the same until my wife has wised me up ha!

 

[deadhead]

The only lost value was what they could have gotten for Risto, but then they'd need to find a RHD - if Attard isn't ready for a 2RHD role, that's cap room and picks.
Jones might have gotten a 5th, anything higher and I'm sure he'd have a different address today.
G was what it was. Braun had multiple suitors, if someone offered a 2nd, he'd be there.

If they lack cap room to go get a FA, good.
JVR is no loss, he's on the downslope, hopefully they can move him at 50% retained, otherwise try at the TDL.
Atkinson is coming off a peak year, sell high.
Provorov/Sanheim are an expendable asset with the emergence of York, Zamula around the corner, and Andrae two years away.

Farabee - Couts - TK
Laughton - Hayes - Brink
Lindblom - Frost - Tippett
Ratcliffe - Laczynski - Allison
[Foerster, Wisdom, Desnoyers, N Cates, Lycksell, McClennon, Hodgson, Willman, Sushko, Strome, P Brown, Sandin in LHV]

York - Ellis
Sanheim- Risto
Zamula - Attard
[Hogberg, Wylie, Millman, St Ivany, Zech in LHV]

Hart - Fedotov
[Sandstrom, Ersson, Ustimenko in LHV]

That's with JVR moved at 50% retained, Atkinson traded, blockbuster move with Provorov/Sanheim.
One player over 30 (Ellis), 2 players 30 years old, 2 players 28 (Laughton, Risto)