WJC: 2020 Team USA Roster Talk

[William H Bonney]

I believe Harris played a faired amount on the right side last season in the NCAA, this could potentially give him a spot due to versatility. Don't know Jones/Johnson very well.

Johnson also plays on the right. It certainly helps their chances.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

What are Pinto's chances?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Luckily playing 12-14 minutes a night is a lot different then playing 6. You don’t have to look far to see a lot of players that played 12-14 minutes a night at 19 years old who’ve turned themselves into high end NHLers. Just like you wouldn’t have to look far to find examples of ones who failed. You can’t make blanket statements like that because no two players are the same in their development, you have to actually watch the guys play and make a determination that way. Having seen Farabee play, I think he’s better off in the NHL playing 12-14 minutes a night (so long as he doesn’t fall to the 4th line) then he is playing in the AHL.

No, I will blanket statements about 12-14 minutes. It’s poor development. I’m sure there are players who turned into successful NHL’ers playing 6 minutes. The amount of minutes is rather inconsequential towards whether development is good or bad when it’s lower than 14. These players that end up as good players got there in spite of the bad development they received.

How can a player get in a rhythm playing less than a regular shift and almost certainly playing regularly with the worst players on the team? Their minutes towards the end of games are very dependent on if they have good/bad shifts in a very small sample size. You are using the same logic that’s used for players that play 6 per game. The philosophy is no different. Let’s get to some specifics here. What specifically is better about this type of development?

 

[flyers0909]

How can a player get in a rhythm playing less than a regular shift and almost certainly playing regularly with the worst players on the team? Their minutes towards the end of games are very dependent on if they have good/bad shifts in a very small sample size. You are using the same logic that’s used for players that play 6 per game. The philosophy is no different. Let’s get to some specifics here. What specifically is better about this type of development?

He's playing with Kevin Hayes and Scott Laughton and in the 5 games they've played toghether they're at 61 CF%/xGF%. What is wrong with a 19 year old playing 3rd line minutes and performing very well?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

He's playing with Kevin Hayes and Scott Laughton and in the 5 games they've played toghether they're at 61 CF%/xGF%. What is wrong with a 19 year old playing 3rd line minutes and performing very well?

12-14 minutes is not third line minutes.

 

[flyers0909]

12-14 minutes is not third line minutes.

At ES it is...

 

[William H Bonney]

12-14 minutes is not third line minutes.

On the Flyers it is. He's 8th in overall TOI/G for forwards. And he's 7th in the only scenario where the concept of a third line is applicable - even strength TOI/G.

 

[flyers0909]

12-14 minutes is not third line minutes.

And who is he playing over? He's been great for a 19 year old but the only way he makes it back into the top 6 in the near future is if they move Giroux back to center.

Giroux-Frost-Konecny
Lindblom-Couturier-Voracek

It's not hurting his development at all having him play well with two established NHL vets (not the worst players on the team like you previously said) in Hayes and Laughton. On top of that he's playing really well and the Flyers can go three lines deep every night and he's a big part of that. He's not going anywhere.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

At ES it is...

Special teams is part of hockey.

You are distorting what I said. I said usually 12-14 minutes results in playing with bad players. I was discussing the philosophy behind using players in this way.

You can correct me if I'm wrong about any of this. Couturier, Frost, Giroux, Lindbom, Konecny, Voracek, Hayes and Laughton are all playing more right now than Farabee. I believe he's not even playing any special teams either. Didn't Frost take his PP time?

And Farabee's minutes have only dropped recently. If Frost has passed him on the depth chart, that doesn't bode well when JVR starts to find his way back up the lineup and when Patrick returns. It's probably going to result in Farabee out of the top 9 entirely. And when that happens, 4th line with no special teams is an awful recipe for a 19 year old. It's slightly better to be 3rd line on a line with better linemates without special teams. It's still not good, if the overall minutes are low.

We have three weeks until the roster is picked. I didn't say that Farabee will or will not be on this team. I didn't say he should or should not be on this team. I mentioned it as an option. You'd be lying to yourself, if you said that a guy getting 12-14 minutes in recent games, who doesn't play special teams, whose dropping on the depth chart and is 19 years old is a lock for the roster in three weeks. No age eligible player in the NHL shouldn't be a lock to not play at the WJC's, unless he's in a big role. Farabee isn't, and it should be a decision that goes right up to the deadline.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

On the Flyers it is. He's 8th in overall TOI/G for forwards. And he's 7th in the only scenario where the concept of a third line is applicable - even strength TOI/G.

And his minutes are dropping recently. He's exited the top 6 recently, and Frost is now in the top 6 after previously being in the AHL. There's no reason to be intellectually dishonest about this.

I don't know what you or I as fans of USAH and our World Junior team have to gain by Farabee playing 12-14 minutes per game in the NHL. It's bad for our team, and I don't think its good for the player's long-term development, even if he wasn't WJC eligible, to be playing 12-14 minutes per game. Form changes, as do roles on teams. As of now, I'm struggling to see why Farabee isn't an option for this team. Whether he's ultimately loaned to this team in three weeks is an entirely different discussion. Hughes plays over 16 minutes per game on the season. His lowest TOI in the last 10 is 13:55. He's an example of a player who should be about as close to a lock to not play for this team as there is. Farabee is not, in my opinion.

 

[Tripod]

Farabee isn't an option...because he is in the NHL playing on the 3rd line and had 4 points in the last 5 games. He is helping the Flyers win games.

Simple as that.

And at ES...he is playing 1 minute less than Voracek, 35 seconds less than Konecny. It's not like he is getting way less than others...except special teams. But with Giroux, Jake, Konecny,JVR, Couts, Lindblom, and Frost as the 7 forwards and Provy, Niky and Ghost as the 3 D, there is not enough room for everyone on the PP. Just like if/when Patrick comes back. No room at the inn so play well at ES and when you get a chance, play well.

 

[William H Bonney]

And his minutes are dropping recently. He's exited the top 6 recently, and Frost is now in the top 6 after previously being in the AHL. There's no reason to be intellectually dishonest about this.

Literally no one is contesting that his minutes have dropped. They're contesting your baseless claim that he's not playing 3rd line minutes, which is factually incorrect and the thing being peddled that's intellectually dishonest. Hence why you're now trying to move the goalposts of your argument to "top 6" and not "4th line minutes."

The position Frost is playing has nothing to do with Farabee and whether or not he's going to be available for the WJC.

I don't know what you or I as fans of USAH and our World Junior team have to gain by Farabee playing 12-14 minutes per game in the NHL. It's bad for our team, and I don't think its good for the player's long-term development, even if he wasn't WJC eligible, to be playing 12-14 minutes per game. Form changes, as do roles on teams. As of now, I'm struggling to see why Farabee isn't an option for this team. Whether he's ultimately loaned to this team in three weeks is an entirely different discussion. Hughes plays over 16 minutes per game on the season. His lowest TOI in the last 10 is 13:55. He's an example of a player who should be about as close to a lock to not play for this team as there is. Farabee is not, in my opinion.

There are many appropriate and successful development paths for a player and you've provided zero evidence that a 19 year old rookie averaging 14:53 TOI/GP in the NHL is detrimental to his development. Your opinion is that it's "poor development", which is fine, but let's not pretend that it's fact because you've offered no evidence. And it's also beside the point. You've been arguing for weeks that Farabee would/could be available, originally claiming AV would send him down within the month, and the first time you offered reasoning for it was:

I don’t know how the Flyers can justify letting a 19 year old play 4th line minutes in the NHL over AHL and playing a big WJC role.

And that reasoning was immediately corrected with the truth. But the TOI argument has basically been your justification ever since:

It’s not a lock, but with his recent ice time, Farabee is trending well to be on this team.

And people have been countering your claims/hopes that he will be available based on your reasoning, which has either been factually incorrect (i.e. "4th line minutes") or unsupported (i.e. "12-14 per game is poor development").

We get it. You think the Flyers should release him for the tournament because you think his usage is bad for his development. But basically no one else agrees that's it bad and/or that he's going to be released, including the Flyers fans that watch him every night, and based on the questions you've been posing to them, it seems like you haven't even been watching him play anyway.

 

[William H Bonney]

Special teams is part of hockey.

You are distorting what I said. I said usually 12-14 minutes results in playing with bad players. I was discussing the philosophy behind using players in this way.

No, he's not distorting. You literally said:

How can a player get in a rhythm playing less than a regular shift and almost certainly playing regularly with the worst players on the team?

And he pointed out that wasn't true, so you claimed:

12-14 minutes is not third line minutes.

Which again wasn't true. Countering your literal statements isn't distortion.

You can correct me if I'm wrong about any of this. Couturier, Frost, Giroux, Lindbom, Konecny, Voracek, Hayes and Laughton are all playing more right now than Farabee. I believe he's not even playing any special teams either. Didn't Frost take his PP time?

We already told you Frost is getting his PP time right now.

And Farabee's minutes have only dropped recently. If Frost has passed him on the depth chart, that doesn't bode well when JVR starts to find his way back up the lineup and when Patrick returns. It's probably going to result in Farabee out of the top 9 entirely. And when that happens, 4th line with no special teams is an awful recipe for a 19 year old. It's slightly better to be 3rd line on a line with better linemates without special teams. It's still not good, if the overall minutes are low.

Frost and Farabee don't even play the same position. Frost is the one getting the PP time right now, but that hardly qualifies as "passing him on the depth chart," especially as Frost plays more sheltered minutes and gets less 5-on-5 time than Farabee despite centering the #1 line.

Farabee's overall TOI/G has gone down since Frost was called up 8 games ago due to the PP usage, but his EV TOI/G has actually gone up by 21 seconds per game. In those 8 games, Farabee's EV TOI has ranked 3rd, T-9th, 8th, 9th, 6th, 5th, 5th, 6th of the forwards - so even at its worst, still not 4th line minutes.

Sure, 4th line with no special teams wouldn't be ideal for a 19 year old. But it's not happening right now and despite your hypotheticals - JVR "find[ing] his way back up the lineup" or "Patrick return[ing]" - it's also possible that Farabee reclaims his PP spot, or Frost gets sent back to the AHL, or one of their top 6 guys gets injured, or the guy with a horrible concussion history and no return date doesn't return soon or isn't up to par when he does, etc. The point being is a lot of things could happen and not all of them are bad for Farabee.

 

[Dodospice]

No, I will blanket statements about 12-14 minutes. It’s poor development. I’m sure there are players who turned into successful NHL’ers playing 6 minutes. The amount of minutes is rather inconsequential towards whether development is good or bad when it’s lower than 14. These players that end up as good players got there in spite of the bad development they received.

How can a player get in a rhythm playing less than a regular shift and almost certainly playing regularly with the worst players on the team? Their minutes towards the end of games are very dependent on if they have good/bad shifts in a very small sample size. You are using the same logic that’s used for players that play 6 per game. The philosophy is no different. Let’s get to some specifics here. What specifically is better about this type of development?

IMO, it’s better for a guy to play 12-14 minutes a night in the NHL when they’ve clearly showed they’re capable of playing at this level then then are playing in the AHL. He’s showed he’s an NHL capable player, why would you then send him back a level to the AHL? If he stops getting 3rd line minutes, then it’s another question altogether and at that point I’d send him down but as long as he’s getting a regular shift in the top 9, which he is then IMO it’s the best place for his development because to me he’s showed that he belongs at this level.

If you don’t want NHL teams calling up their prospects until they’re top 6 ready and prepared to give them special teams roles then you’re going to be waiting a long time. You’d be waiting years to call guys up that are clearly ready to play and contribute at the NHL level, it doesn’t make sense to do that and the reality is that most teams would never be able to wait. He played over 14 minutes tonight, scored a goal and was top 9 in ice time for the team. That to me is good for his development.

I don’t even think we’re having this discussion if he isn’t WJC eligible.

 

[Tripod]

Might as well update Farabee...5 points in his last 6 games.

Coach AV trusted him out there when the Leafs pulled Anderson and he got rewarded with an EN goal....had 3 SOG in total.

Played 14:14....4 seconds of PP, 14:10 at ES.

Played more at ES than Konecny, Lindblom, JVR, Frost, etc.. He is helping make the Flyers a 3 line scoring threat.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

You probably have a better chance at seeing Farabee at the WC’s in spring than at the WJC’s at this point.

He’s holding his own & helping the team win games. I don’t really see what going down levels does at this point.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Literally no one is contesting that his minutes have dropped. They're contesting your baseless claim that he's not playing 3rd line minutes, which is factually incorrect and the thing being peddled that's intellectually dishonest. Hence why you're now trying to move the goalposts of your argument to "top 6" and not "4th line minutes."

Thats funny. Here's what you said.

On the Flyers it is. He's 8th in overall TOI/G for forwards. And he's 7th in the only scenario where the concept of a third line is applicable - even strength TOI/G.

This ignores that he's been playing less recently. So you seem to now disagree with what you said earlier. Why is that? Otherwise, why would it be relevant to bring up his minutes for the full season when you are acknowledging his minutes are now lower?

There are many appropriate and successful development paths for a player and you've provided zero evidence that a 19 year old rookie averaging 14:53 TOI/GP in the NHL is detrimental to his development.

Here you go again with the misleading numbers that don't account for his current minutes. Make up your mind about what you are arguing.

You've been arguing for weeks that Farabee would/could be available, originally claiming AV would send him down within the month, and the first time you offered reasoning for it was:

And that reasoning was immediately corrected with the truth. But the TOI argument has basically been your justification ever since:

You aren't helping your argument here. His TOI has decreased, so it looks like I was right. He's now about 12-14 minutes per game. Thats 4th line minutes. Whether he's 8th on the team for the season is irrelevant because he's not playing nearly 15 minutes per game anymore.

And people have been countering your claims/hopes that he will be available based on your reasoning, which has either been factually incorrect (i.e. "4th line minutes") or unsupported (i.e. "12-14 per game is poor development").

This is just ridiculous. Opinions are not factual matters. He's playing 12-14 minutes per game. You don't prove that wrong because you cite some irrelevant stat to his current minutes, and even if you were going to try to make 4th line minutes a subjective measure, you've not provided the data for what 4th line minutes would be. Until then, suggesting my opinion is factually incorrect is the only thing here that's unsupported. Besides, I've not seen any justification for why it isn't poor development. Why don't you make an argument for it since you seem to buy into it? I've explained my opinion of why its bad development.

We get it. You think the Flyers should release him for the tournament because you think his usage is bad for his development. But basically no one else agrees that's it bad and/or that he's going to be released, including the Flyers fans that watch him every night, and based on the questions you've been posing to them, it seems like you haven't even been watching him play anyway.

Whose basically no one else? Two people in here who disagree with me and a few Flyers fans that have a short sided view of what's best for their team's prospect because they'd rather watch their first round pick in the NHL, even if it's for low minutes. I'm not really bothered by these kinds of fans. I argued the same thing against Coyotes and Blackhawks fans this season relating to other prospects. I think there are probably a lot fewer people that take a stand like I do wanting to see these prospects develop best instead of playing in the NHL as soon as possible. Does that make what I'm saying less valid? It's pretty weak to try to claim more people agree with you than with me. It doesn't make your argument stronger or mine weaker.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

No, he's not distorting. You literally said:


And he pointed out that wasn't true, so you claimed:

You are being intellectually dishonest, and I'm now losing respect for your opinions because you are trying to claim things you know are, at best, deceiving.

I didn't mention or allude to a single thing about Farabee in that post that you are quoting from. Why don't you quote the whole thing instead of a section that you think could help your narrative? I made a post about my philosophy. You seem to have a different philosophy, yet all you are doing here is trying to mislead about my philosophy.

Frost and Farabee don't even play the same position. Frost is the one getting the PP time right now, but that hardly qualifies as "passing him on the depth chart," especially as Frost plays more sheltered minutes and gets less 5-on-5 time than Farabee despite centering the #1 line.

Farabee's overall TOI/G has gone down since Frost was called up 8 games ago due to the PP usage, but his EV TOI/G has actually gone up by 21 seconds per game. In those 8 games, Farabee's EV TOI has ranked 3rd, T-9th, 8th, 9th, 6th, 5th, 5th, 6th of the forwards - so even at its worst, still not 4th line minutes.

Sure, 4th line with no special teams wouldn't be ideal for a 19 year old. But it's not happening right now and despite your hypotheticals - JVR "find[ing] his way back up the lineup" or "Patrick return[ing]" - it's also possible that Farabee reclaims his PP spot, or Frost gets sent back to the AHL, or one of their top 6 guys gets injured, or the guy with a horrible concussion history and no return date doesn't return soon or isn't up to par when he does, etc. The point being is a lot of things could happen and not all of them are bad for Farabee.

Why does it matter if they don't play the same position if the top six is the same except for the difference with one going out of the top six recently and the other going into the top six recently? It would seem to matter that Frost is taking the PP time that Farabee had, but let's introduce irrelevant facts like thy don't play the same position. I'm sure you'll fool everyone in this thread into thinking that matters so much because no one here watches hockey and knows that teams move around positions for players all the time, and when a winger exits the top six and a center enters, a player playing center can move to winger.

His even strength time is another largely irrelevant consideration. It's certainly irrelevant compared to his all situations minutes. When you try introducing something like that, you know you are putting up the lesser argument.

And I never said that his situation couldn't change. It could change in a few ways between now and when the roster is picked. I didn't say otherwise. Don't try to frame my argument differently than what I say.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

He’s showed he’s an NHL capable player, why would you then send him back a level to the AHL?

Because he's 19 years old, and he's not a finished product. He still needs to improve a lot to reach his potential. Nearly every first round pick can take a regular shift in the NHL, if you give it to them. They are talented players, and picked in the first round for a reason.

If you invest a first round pick in a player, you probably expect them to be a big part of your team's future. You probably aren't only expecting them to fill lower roles on your team at 19 years old. You have bigger plans for their place in the organization. Teams should prioritize what will be best for a player's long-term development.

 

[William H Bonney]

Thats funny. Here's what you said.

On the Flyers it is. He's 8th in overall TOI/G for forwards. And he's 7th in the only scenario where the concept of a third line is applicable - even strength TOI/G.

This ignores that he's been playing less recently. So you seem to now disagree with what you said earlier. Why is that? Otherwise, why would it be relevant to bring up his minutes for the full season when you are acknowledging his minutes are now lower?

No, I don't disagree with what I said earlier because the response you've highlighted above wasn't in response to whether "he's been playing less recently" it was in response to this post from you:

12-14 minutes is not third line minutes.

It had nothing to do with whether or not he's been playing less recently. It was about your factually incorrect claim that he's not playing third line minutes, which he is, even if his overall TOI/G is down. And I posted the stats to show his even strength TOI/G has actually gone up recently.

Here you go again with the misleading numbers that don't account for his current minutes. Make up your mind about what you are arguing.

Do you really not understand how average TOI/G is calculated? Of course it accounts for his current minutes. This is elementary level math and it's so easy you don't even have to calculate it yourself.

You aren't helping your argument here. His TOI has decreased, so it looks like I was right. He's now about 12-14 minutes per game. Thats 4th line minutes. Whether he's 8th on the team for the season is irrelevant because he's not playing nearly 15 minutes per game anymore.

No one is arguing his TOI hasn't decreased. And yes, even 12-14 minutes per game isn't 4th line minutes on the Flyers.

Whether he's 8th on the team for the season is irrelevant because he's not playing nearly 15 minutes per game anymore.

Weird. His last two games he was 8th (14:21) and 9th (14:14) in TOI/G and played nearly 15 minutes in both. I guess you have a different definition of "anymore."

This is just ridiculous. Opinions are not factual matters. He's playing 12-14 minutes per game. You don't prove that wrong because you cite some irrelevant stat to his current minutes, and even if you were going to try to make 4th line minutes a subjective measure, you've not provided the data for what 4th line minutes would be. Until then, suggesting my opinion is factually incorrect is the only thing here that's unsupported. Besides, I've not seen any justification for why it isn't poor development. Why don't you make an argument for it since you seem to buy into it? I've explained my opinion of why its bad development.

He's playing 12-14 minutes per game.

This is not a factual statement. What you mean is "he's playing 12-14 minutes [in his last 8 games]." That would be factually correct. And no one was countering his recent TOI/G stats, but questioning your ability to understand context. 4th line minutes is not a "subjective measure" - the word you're looking for is objective, it is an objective measure, and he's not playing 4th line minutes currently or on average.

I haven't claimed that it may not be bad development for Farabee. I said that you offered no evidence for your claim beyond your subjective opinion. If you have no evidence, fine.

Whose basically no one else? Two people in here who disagree with me and a few Flyers fans that have a short sided view of what's best for their team's prospect because they'd rather watch their first round pick in the NHL, even if it's for low minutes. I'm not really bothered by these kinds of fans. I argued the same thing against Coyotes and Blackhawks fans this season relating to other prospects. I think there are probably a lot fewer people that take a stand like I do wanting to see these prospects develop best instead of playing in the NHL as soon as possible. Does that make what I'm saying less valid? It's pretty weak to try to claim more people agree with you than with me. It doesn't make your argument stronger or mine weaker.

It's literally what it means: no one else in here agrees with you. That doesn't mean you're wrong by default (i.e. poor development or Farabee possibly playing in the WJC) even if your objective reasoning has been factually incorrect. But I do think it's funny that you're taking such a stance on a prospect's developmental path when you're clearly not even watching any of his games.

 

[William H Bonney]

You are being intellectually dishonest, and I'm now losing respect for your opinions because you are trying to claim things you know are, at best, deceiving.

I didn't mention or allude to a single thing about Farabee in that post that you are quoting from. Why don't you quote the whole thing instead of a section that you think could help your narrative? I made a post about my philosophy. You seem to have a different philosophy, yet all you are doing here is trying to mislead about my philosophy.

Oh no, what will I do without your respect? But sure, here's the whole discussion thread about it:

No way in hell do the Flyers release Farabee to be on this team. Keep dreaming.

He's hit 13 and a half minutes once in the last six games. He's barely playing. The team doesn't need to be selected for another three weeks. There's more than enough time for him to be sent here, if he keeps playing such low minutes. The Flyers would be doing him a disservice to keep playing him these minutes, and not send him down to the AHL. And if he's in the AHL, there's no reason he shouldn't be on the WJC team.

His minutes have been low of late and I know it’s being pushed up by some other games but he’s averaging nearly 15 minutes a night on the season.. 4 points in his last 5 games, it makes it tough to send a guy to the AHL/release him for this tournament regardless of his minutes if he’s producing. I don’t think his development is being stifled by playing 12-14 minutes a night, he seems to me like the type of player that’s NHL ready and benefits more from playing NHL minutes (even if it’s in a limited role) then he does going down to the AHL.

I don’t think any 19 year old benefits from 12-14 minutes per game over 20 in the AHL.

What Winnipeg is doing with Gustafsson is an abomination, and he doesn’t even get 12-14 minutes per game.

Luckily playing 12-14 minutes a night is a lot different then playing 6. You don’t have to look far to see a lot of players that played 12-14 minutes a night at 19 years old who’ve turned themselves into high end NHLers. Just like you wouldn’t have to look far to find examples of ones who failed. You can’t make blanket statements like that because no two players are the same in their development, you have to actually watch the guys play and make a determination that way. Having seen Farabee play, I think he’s better off in the NHL playing 12-14 minutes a night (so long as he doesn’t fall to the 4th line) then he is playing in the AHL.

No, I will blanket statements about 12-14 minutes. It’s poor development. I’m sure there are players who turned into successful NHL’ers playing 6 minutes. The amount of minutes is rather inconsequential towards whether development is good or bad when it’s lower than 14. These players that end up as good players got there in spite of the bad development they received.

How can a player get in a rhythm playing less than a regular shift and almost certainly playing regularly with the worst players on the team? Their minutes towards the end of games are very dependent on if they have good/bad shifts in a very small sample size. You are using the same logic that’s used for players that play 6 per game. The philosophy is no different. Let’s get to some specifics here. What specifically is better about this type of development?

He's playing with Kevin Hayes and Scott Laughton and in the 5 games they've played toghether they're at 61 CF%/xGF%. What is wrong with a 19 year old playing 3rd line minutes and performing very well?

12-14 minutes is not third line minutes.

The discussion is about Farabee, the two of you disagree, @Dodospice says you can't make blanket statements about player development paths, you say yes you can, someone else points out factual inaccuracies about your blanket statement and how it's incorrect for Farabee, and you make a factually incorrect counterpoint to the retort to your blanket statement.

If that post wasn't about Farabee, in a thread of replies about Farabee, it sure is odd to go on arguing against the counterpoint made about that post as it relates to Farabee instead of just saying "this isn't about Farabee." Odd.

Why does it matter if they don't play the same position if the top six is the same except for the difference with one going out of the top six recently and the other going into the top six recently? It would seem to matter that Frost is taking the PP time that Farabee had, but let's introduce irrelevant facts like thy don't play the same position. I'm sure you'll fool everyone in this thread into thinking that matters so much because no one here watches hockey and knows that teams move around positions for players all the time, and when a winger exits the top six and a center enters, a player playing center can move to winger.

The arrogance on this is impressive even for you.

His even strength time is another largely irrelevant consideration. It's certainly irrelevant compared to his all situations minutes. When you try introducing something like that, you know you are putting up the lesser argument.

Not when you won't shut up about him playing "4th line minutes." EV TOI is an objective measure of that.

 

[Kent Nilsson]

This is getting a bit ridiculous gents.

 

[iginlafan77]

Farabee has played third line even strength minutes mostly. He hasn't had the power play time lately, and that makes his total toi less.
He's still a contributing player, and doesn't look out of place on an NHL third line. No reason to send him down.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

He’d be a welcome addition, but I doubt it. His minutes aren’t bad in NJ and there would have to be a big PR spin for why they are uprooting their 1OA from the NHL.

Not that I am holding out any hope or, picking at your answer, just curious. But what PR spin ? The Devils aren’t going anywhere and Shero just sent his coach packing. How would a month away for the 10A hurt League perception of how the prospect is being developed or be a PR hazard ?

 

[NUhockey]

Because he's 19 years old, and he's not a finished product. He still needs to improve a lot to reach his potential. Nearly every first round pick can take a regular shift in the NHL, if you give it to them. They are talented players, and picked in the first round for a reason.

If you invest a first round pick in a player, you probably expect them to be a big part of your team's future. You probably aren't only expecting them to fill lower roles on your team at 19 years old. You have bigger plans for their place in the organization. Teams should prioritize what will be best for a player's long-term development.

Player development isn't as rigid as you make it out to be. Here's an average stat: you posting 20 times a day. Maybe that should be cut down for reflection and actual research.

This is getting a bit ridiculous gents.

The guy's blowing smoke up Bonney's ass with bullshit player development claims.

Please for the love of God can the camp roster come out so we can talk about that