2020 Offseason Thread Part VIII

[deadhead]

I'm still uncertain why Gus was acquired. Why make this logjam? It makes holding on to the inhuman slob commonly referred to as "Hagg" even less sensible.

So really, I can't figure out why the f*** they're overpaying Hagg and wasting a contract slot on him.

Gus was acquired because the Flyers were thin on RHDs, Gus like Ghost has been a top offensive defenseman in the past, and if you can afford the depth, more is better than less.

If an upgrade shakes loose, it's better to deal from a position of strength.

Savard would be a very good fit, he's a big RHD, on a one year deal, won't cost too much in a trade and solves the top 4.
Now Gus/Ghost become offensive specialists and PP, but don't have to get near the PK.

Columbus has $9M in cap space so they could absorb the $3.5M extra from taking on JVR.
They might want Ghost or Gus b/c they don't really have a PP QB, neither Jones or Werenski have excelled in that role.
But then the Flyers would have to take a salary back.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Gus was acquired because the Flyers were thin on RHDs, Gus like Ghost has been a top offensive defenseman in the past, and if you can afford the depth, more is better than less.

If an upgrade shakes loose, it's better to deal from a position of strength.

Savard would be a very good fit, he's a big RHD, on a one year deal, won't cost too much in a trade and solves the top 4.
Now Gus/Ghost become offensive specialists and PP, but don't have to get near the PK.

Columbus has $9M in cap space so they could absorb the $3.5M extra from taking on JVR.
They might want Ghost or Gus b/c they don't really have a PP QB, neither Jones or Werenski have excelled in that role.
But then the Flyers would have to take a salary back.

Handedness is overrated. Cap space isn't.

There's no reason to have Hagg on this roster now. Signing him was stupid. Signing him and then acquiring another dman was baffling. Keeping him now continues to be stupid.

 

[deadhead]

Hagg is here for depth and b/c Flyers' defense is one of the smallest in the NHL.
If someone like Attard or St Ivany show they're ready to be at least a #7, I think Hagg is gone.

But HCs like to have options. Having a bunch of 190 lb D-men who are mobile but also road kill if refs swallow their whistles limits your options.

If Hagg wasn't here, we'd have someone at the vet minimum in his place, so the cap hit is pretty small.

 

[David St Hubbins]

Probably need to throw in another asset but it's interesting for sure. Wouldn't they want a D back tho if they are in compete now mode? Asking for JVR and Gus/Gost maybe? Then Flyers get an additional pick/prospect maybe.

Surprisingly Columbus has a on of cap space: moving Savard and his $4.25M gives them ~$13.5 in cap this year. Adding Gustafson and JVR only takes $10M of that with $3M falling off at end of this year. Taking Ghost and making him expansion bait (or protecting him along with Jones and Werenski if he works out) would still leave $2M this year and not squeeze them too badly going forward. But from a cap perspective Hagg works best, and would require less of a pick back, if anything.

 

[renberg]

I'm still uncertain why Gus was acquired. Why make this logjam?

No one knew that a player like Savard would be available at the time that Gus was acquired. Additionally, if Columbus knew that the Flyers were short on defense, the cost for Savard would be higher. It could end up being as others have said, JVR and Ghost, Hagg or Friedman. I have no issue with that price. We'll have to see if the rumor is true and then who is involved in the deal. It could end up being bigger. Columbus might want to move Jenner, He's been in and out of Torts' dog house.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Handedness is overrated. Cap space isn't.

There's no reason to have Hagg on this roster now. Signing him was stupid. Signing him and then acquiring another dman was baffling. Keeping him now continues to be stupid.

If you sign Hagg with 40m of cap space, even then would it make sense?

 

[Striiker]

I still don't see why so many people want to move JVR so bad. (ignoring meme reasons)

He's been very good since signing here, both production- and possession-wise. Especially when you account for how he's been used.

Lets do a blind comparison, just for fun

Over the last two seasons...​	Games Played​	Total Points/60​	Total Goals/60​	Total Assists/60​	Individual Expected Goals/60 ​	CF% (rel)​	xGF% (rel)​
Player A​	149​	2.58​	1.05​	1.53​	0.90​	56.33 (9.21)​	55.20 (7.61)​
Player B​	132​	2.54​	1.33​	1.21​	1.07​	55.70 (6.97)​	58.00 (10.68)​
Player C​	140​	2.28​	1.00​	1.29​	0.85​	50.58 (2.10)​	50.56 (2.16)​

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Spoiler

Player A = Couturier
Player B = JVR
Player C = Hayes

And if we're desperate to clear out cap space, this isn't where we should be starting.

 

[deadhead]

The reason to move JVR is not cap space this season, but the next two when they need to sign young players.
But the real motivation is simply to free up PT for young wingers.

LW: G, Lindblom, Farabee/Laughton, Raffl,
C: Couts, Hayes, Patrick/Frost, Laughton/Bunnaman
RW: Voracek, TK, NAK, Sandin, Laczynski/Allison

Even without bringing anyone back from Europe, it's gonna be pretty crowded.
Moving JVR opens up a spot in the top 9 for Frost.

 

[Prongo]

ROR the new captain of the blues. Ohhhhh the days when we were told he wasn’t/shouldn’t be a target to trade for. f***ing missed that one for sure.

 

[Prongo]

If the Flyers do actually trade JVR and Ghost is taken in the expansion draft, the Flyers would have close to 30 million in cap space next year.

Dougie Hamilton better be a flyer if that happens.

 

[Beef Invictus]

If you sign Hagg with 40m of cap space, even then would it make sense?

No, use that cap space to fold Edmonton and then get McDavid. Don't spend a dime on someone on the shortlist for worst NHL player

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

If the Flyers do actually trade JVR and Ghost is taken in the expansion draft, the Flyers would have close to 30 million in cap space next year.

Dougie Hamilton better be a flyer if that happens.

Oh, don't worry, he definitely will be. This is my darkest timeline and that's the next step.

 

[David St Hubbins]

Oh, don't worry, he definitely will be. This is my darkest timeline and that's the next step.

Cap acting out Dougie's arrival

 

[Starat327]

If you sign Hagg with 40m of cap space, even then would it make sense?

Spending cap for non NHL level players is always a bad idea. Doesnt matter what their name is.

 

[Curufinwe]

I'm still uncertain why Gus was acquired. Why make this logjam? It makes holding on to the inhuman slob commonly referred to as "Hagg" even less sensible.

I'm sure Ghost's long history of knee injuries had a lot to do with it.

 

[Curufinwe]

ROR the new captain of the blues. Ohhhhh the days when we were told he wasn’t/shouldn’t be a target to trade for. f***ing missed that one for sure.

And BSchenn is a Cup winning 2C, and now wearing an A.

Hockey is really weird cause he never looked like being a success as a full time center here.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I'm sure Ghost's long history of knee injuries had a lot to do with it.

They still only needed one of them, and ideally not the one who should be sitting at around 9 or 10 on our depth chart on merit.

 

[Curufinwe]

Injuries don't happen so we don't need depth.

Usually this nonsense is trotted out every September, but now we get it as a Christmas present.

 

[Beef Invictus]

And BSchenn is a Cup winning 2C, and now wearing an A.

Hockey is really weird cause he never looked like being a success as a full time center here.

Can never underestimate the impact that a change of coach/system/usage/teammates can have on a player's results.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Injuries don't happen so we don't need depth.

Usually this nonsense is trotted out every September, but now we get it as a Christmas present.

Hagg isn't depth. Hagg is trash who isn't NHL caliber. We have several players who are better than him. He is wasted cap and an obstacle to players who actually have upside. That's a fact. Put the dunce cap on your own head and think before you speak.

The number of injuries we need to have happen to make Hagg an actual need and worthwhile depth is staggering enough that the season would be over anyhow if it came to pass.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Fletcher sure does seem obsessed with loading up on poor talent. This is a guy who thinks you can never have too many bottom of the barrel players. Bringing back Hagg when you were also gonna bring in a better player anyway and we have plenty of better players to boot is just the most recent example. We also have his decision to get both Grant and Thompson to remake the bottom six in their terrible image to the detriment of the team, and before that his insistence on floating in the raft of turds Stewart crashed into the team on. These moves are more expensive than relying on existing in-house talent, and they also haven't brought a shred of upside over that in-house talent either.

 

[DancingPanther]

Injuries don't happen so we don't need depth.

Usually this nonsense is trotted out every September, but now we get it as a Christmas present.

Funny, usually Robert Hagg is both trotted out every September AND as a Christmas present. At least we were spared this fall.

Classifying Hagg as a depth player sure is....a move

 

[Rebels57]

AV showed last season he has no idea how to use JVR anyway, so they might as well move him if they can improve the Defense.

 

[flyersnorth]

Fletcher sure does seem obsessed with loading up on poor talent.

This was my biggest concern when he was first hired.

It always seems his moves are meh, at best.

I think he's done a decent job so far - he hasn't sacrificed any of our youth or valuable future assets (1sts, 2nds) but his time in Minnesota always felt kinda like those were teams I'd never want to watch because they were incredibly vanilla. Philly doesn't do vanilla. Don't do vanilla here, Fletch.

So, I don't know. I think Gus was a decent move given what was available and given what made sense for the team (no long contract like some of the really bad signings by other teams, not giving up assets chasing a D in trade, making trades and moves with the expansion draft at the forefront).

We're adding Lindblom and Patrick, so we can afford to give up JVR (and at this point it's probably a smart move) - is Savard the right move? If so, I'm guessing a defenseman will be on the way out in another trade.

 

[wankstifier]

Am I too drunk? Gustafsson is a lefty...