2020 Offseason Thread Part VIII

[BiggE]

If a vaccine has been distributed by summer, 2021-22 will be judged on a 'normal' basis, though some franchises will face cash flow issues for a couple years down the road.
So the belt tightening that will be required this coming season will be somewhat relaxed, though the Cap will probably stay flat for another season.

If JVR has another solid season (20 goals, 50 points) he'll both be attractive in the ED or in trade with only 2yr/$14M left.

Especially when in actual dollars it’s only 12 million

 

[Beef Invictus]

They didn’t suddenly change their system in each OT. You (& you aren’t the only one) consistently fall into the trap of attributing differences in play to “system” changes.

Usually it’s simply about better execution & momentum.

They did change their system. They went back to bringing two forecheckers while maintaining a net presence. It was a reversion to regular season style. The slop show that occurred during regulation was entirely a choice by AV.

 

[BiggE]

They did change their system. They went back to bringing two forecheckers while maintaining a net presence. It was a reversion to regular season style. The slop show that occurred during regulation was entirely a choice by AV.

Correct. Just as it was his choice to keep Hagg, Grant and the way overused Thompson in the lineup. He’s also the same assclown who chose Dopey Therrien to run the pp.

I swear, the only reason folks think that AV is such a great coach is because he followed Hak and Mimsy.

 

[renberg]

To me the POs this summer were a farce. Was I happy to see hockey? Absolutely. After that, it became a let down. A major factor in winning the Cup is the depth that an organization has (or doesn't). The season is an 82 game slog that leads into the POs. Its that long march that earns the Cup winner the respect that they deserve. What we saw this summer was a sprint after a re-start that ruined the context of the season. Teams that had significant players out with injuries at the shut down got them back which added strength to their roster that wouldn't have been there under other circumstances. Teams that were on top of their physical and mental games lost their edge.
Would TB have won the Cup last year under either situation? Probably. They were that good. However I'm not going to evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of any club under the circumstances that took place this past season.

 

[deadhead]

The Bruins and Flyers were the clear losers of the shutdown.
Montreal was the biggest winner, since it allowed Price to get healthy and play at a high level.
Dallas was also helped as a team full of aging veterans.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

That would be really bad asset management. JVR doesn't have negative value. He only has two more years on his contract after this season. There would be several teams willing to trade for him unless he has a Ghost level bad season.

I'm aware - but we have assets to spare at this moment. I'd rather lose the 7+ mill contract (if there are no takers prior) than keep him beyond this upcoming season.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Heck depending on what I see this upcoming season, I might want to see them protect NAK and expose Jake instead.

Jake will be approaching his 32nd birthday at that point and you have to consider 3 more seasons at 8.25 million. I think TK can be the #1 RW and with Brink and Forester in the pipeline, Jake could be expendable by 2022.

 

[BiggE]

Wow, what a thoughtful and insightful post. Thank you so much.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Considering the type of output Voracek can produce, and the fact that we have no one to immediately replace someone like him and he still has a favorable cap hit, there is zero point to exposing him to the expansion draft. NAK is a dime a dozen. While he plays well on the 4th line grinding it out, protecting him, when many others can replace him, is just dumb.

Jake may be 32 by then, but that doesn't mean he will immediately stop producing. He'll do more for the Flyers in the next 3 or 4 years than NAK would.

JVR, on the other hand, should very much be exposed.

 

[Stizzle]

Heck depending on what I see this upcoming season, I might want to see them protect NAK and expose Jake instead.

I agree with @BiggE. Protecting this 7 is potentially a very viable option. Gaining cap flexibility and/or dumping contracts is extremely difficult these days. It has a lot of merit.

1) Giroux (NMC)
2) Hayes (NMC)
3) Couturier
4) Konecny
5) Patrick
6) Lindblom
7) NAK

Protecting this set of players doesn't even guarantee they'd take JVR or Voracek. Seattle could easily take a potentially cheap value in Friedman, for example. Lots of teams will be angling for Seattle to take big salaried players. Not just us. Seattle will have tons of leverage over the market.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

If JVR and Ghost are gone next season, Flyers will have over 32.5M to spend on Sanheim, Hart and Patrick (they do still need to sign Myers this year). So I'm not sure why getting rid of Voracek would be entirely necessary for cap reasons if JVR and Ghost are gone before the 21-22 season start.

 

[Flyer lurker]

I agree with @BiggE. Protecting this 7 is potentially a very viable option. Gaining cap flexibility and/or dumping contracts is extremely difficult these days. It has a lot of merit.

1) Giroux (NMC)
2) Hayes (NMC)
3) Couturier
4) Konecny
5) Patrick
6) Lindblom
7) NAK

Protecting this set of players doesn't even guarantee they'd take JVR or Voracek. Seattle could easily take a potentially cheap value in Friedman, for example. Lots of teams will be angling for Seattle to take big salaried players. Not just us. Seattle will have tons of leverage over the market.

Voracek or NAK or Laughton (if resigned) is the only decision to make.

 

[renberg]

The Bruins and Flyers were the clear losers of the shutdown.
Montreal was the biggest winner, since it allowed Price to get healthy and play at a high level.
Dallas was also helped as a team full of aging veterans.

The Jackets getting Seth Jones back helped them as well.

 

[Rebels57]

A Kraken blogger on who he would select from the Flyers for the expansion draft...

Spoiler - it's NAK.

HockeyBuzz.com - Sean Maloughney - Kraken Expansion Draft - Philadelphia Flyers

I'd hate to lose NAK. Even though we have a lot of potential replacements in the pipeline on the way up, there's something I really really enjoy about NAK's game that is sorely lacking in the rest of the lineup.

That's who I would pick too, unless Ghost has a huge bounce back in 20-21. He would be a good value for them and allow them to spend their cap elsewhere.

 

[BiggE]

If JVR and Ghost are gone next season, Flyers will have over 32.5M to spend on Sanheim, Hart and Patrick (they do still need to sign Myers this year). So I'm not sure why getting rid of Voracek would be entirely necessary for cap reasons if JVR and Ghost are gone before the 21-22 season start.

The cap isn’t going to go up much, if at all, by 22-23, so you need to also factor in re-signing Couts, Farabee and Frost as well.

Look, I’m not saying they NEED to protect NAK over Jake. Rather that depending on how both perform this upcoming season, it might be something to consider. I’ve seen very good players, guys like VLC and more recently Simmonds, suffer major drop offs in their play when they hit their early 30s. With a relatively flat cap for the next few seasons, every dollar is more important than ever.

It’s simply something that should be considered in the same way that the Flyers will need to take emotion out of the equation when Giroux’s deal ends and make their decision based purely on if he can still help the team at a cost that is acceptable to both the player and management. It’s just the reality of the situation

 

[Flyerfan4life]

A Kraken blogger on who he would select from the Flyers for the expansion draft...

Spoiler - it's NAK.

HockeyBuzz.com - Sean Maloughney - Kraken Expansion Draft - Philadelphia Flyers

I'd hate to lose NAK. Even though we have a lot of potential replacements in the pipeline on the way up, there's something I really really enjoy about NAK's game that is sorely lacking in the rest of the lineup.

wait, they dont want Hogg ??

 

[flyersnorth]

That's who I would pick too, unless Ghost has a huge bounce back in 20-21. He would be a good value for them and allow them to spend their cap elsewhere.

Yeah, and he's younger and about $6m/year cheaper than JVR.

I guess the question I'd be asking myself if I were the Kraken GM is, which forward spot am I trying to fill?

Top 6 and some PP time? Then JVR would be the obvious choice, IMO, especially with the short term commitment. Buys time to find a longer-term replacement.

If my top 6 is already filled up, then NAK would be my pick.

A lot will depend on how Ghost fares this year and whether he's a viable target or not - or if he's still even with the Flyers by that point.

 

[flyersnorth]

wait, they dont want Hogg ??

Stranger things have happened! I never imagined Vegas would take PEB.

 

[BiggE]

wait, they dont want Hogg ??

I’m pretty sure that no one wants Hagg except the Flyers mgmt and coaching staff

 

[Rebels57]

The cap isn’t going to go up much, if at all, by 22-23, so you need to also factor in re-signing Couts, Farabee and Frost as well.

Look, I’m not saying they NEED to protect NAK over Jake. Rather that depending on how both perform this upcoming season, it might be something to consider. I’ve seen very good players, guys like VLC and more recently Simmonds, suffer major drop offs in their play when they hit their early 30s. With a relatively flat cap for the next few seasons, every dollar is more important than ever.

It’s simply something that should be considered in the same way that the Flyers will need to take emotion out of the equation when Giroux’s deal ends and make their decision based purely on if he can still help the team at a cost that is acceptable to both the player and management. It’s just the reality of the situation

Yeah we should probably wait to see how both play in 20-21 before writing off the idea altogether.

If Jake looks like he has hit the wall and NAK has a breakout year, it will be a tougher choice. There's a massive difference in salary at play here.

 

[BiggE]

Yeah we should probably wait to see how both play in 20-21 before writing off the idea altogether.

If Jake looks like he has hit the wall and NAK has a breakout year, it will be a tougher choice. There's a massive difference in salary at play here.

Exactly

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

What defines breakout for someone like NAK?

Also, Voracek, in a full 82 game season was on a 65 point pace, and considering how the Flyers didn't have a lot of big scorers this year (more spread out), that's still pretty good.

I guess my question is, what do you consider "hitting the wall" for Voracek? Do you think he'll get less than 40 or 50 points in the upcoming season (if there are 60 games)?

 

[Rebels57]

What defines breakout for someone like NAK?

Also, Voracek, in a full 82 game season was on a 65 point pace, and considering how the Flyers didn't have a lot of big scorers this year (more spread out), that's still pretty good.

I guess my question is, what do you consider "hitting the wall" for Voracek? Do you think he'll get less than 40 or 50 points in the upcoming season (if there are 60 games)?

40-50 points in a full season for Jake would signify its time to worry.

For NAK, I would think getting up into that 30-35 ES points mark would be a breakout considering his ice time.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

50 points in 60 games is a worry? That would be a better pace of points than he had this past season. 68 points in a 82 game season.

 

[DancingPanther]

I'd like to keep jake, but if he remains unprotected and is selected, it is defensible and I can see the rationale behind it. That's really all I can ask for as a fan