NHL Entry Draft 2020 NHL Draft Discussion - PART XIV [We got 3-5]

[BondraTime]

I'm not refuting your point but there seem to be a lot of resources with the top 3 not set in stone. As well as on mackenzies list not everyone had the same top 3 either.
I didn't fully listen to it but yesterday dobberprospects did their podcast about the draft and they did not even consider Stutzle in the top 4 and just put laf byf raymond rossi. I didn't understand it and to be honest the whole conversation they had I found very uninformitive but there was quite a few of them. I'm guessing some of them just didn't speak up, but none voiced any concern with Raymond/Rossi being the 3rd/4th best prospects in the draft.

From everything Dorion and Mann have said it does appear that those top 3 are set in stone but it's interesting that many other sources think otherwise.

They must have changed their rankings, as Stutzle is #4 in the “final” rankings

 

[Frank8]

They must have changed their rankings, as Stutzle is #4 in the “final” rankings

They had three more guys (12 vs 9) voting on the list you're referring to that had Stuzle ahead of Rossi. Given that it was 5-4 in favour of Rossi with the nine guys, it was close.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

I'm not refuting your point but there seem to be a lot of resources with the top 3 not set in stone. As well as on mackenzies list not everyone had the same top 3 either.
I didn't fully listen to it but yesterday dobberprospects did their podcast about the draft and they did not even consider Stutzle in the top 4 and just put laf byf raymond rossi. I didn't understand it and to be honest the whole conversation they had I found very uninformitive but there was quite a few of them. I'm guessing some of them just didn't speak up, but none voiced any concern with Raymond/Rossi being the 3rd/4th best prospects in the draft.

From everything Dorion and Mann have said it does appear that those top 3 are set in stone but it's interesting that many other sources think otherwise.

There's a difference between rankings and a mock draft. If you have a top 3 in a mock draft that isn't Laf then Byfield/Stutzle, you're going to be incorrect. We know who is being taken, the teams have admitted it. The only wildcard is if NYR went rogue with their pick.

As for rankings, the cool thing now is to rank Stutzle lower after he rose to the top in December or so in Bob's rankings. People like to be different/edgy. There are only so few rankings and analysts I think are worth looking at.

 

[BondraTime]

They had three more guys (12 vs 9) voting on the list you're referring to that had Stuzle ahead of Rossi. Given that it was 5-4 in favour of Rossi with the nine guys, it was close.

Yeah I had a look at the guys contributing to the ranking

 

[DJB]

Trent Mann spoke about how size isn’t that big of an issue and mentioned Brayden Point.

And he made sure to talk about compete level as well.

That fits the Rossi mold but not Perfetti and exactly why I think there is zero chance we take Perfetti at 5

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

My favourite line from that was about Rossi, "he walks up and you're like, oh, that's what a man's thighs look like".

There were nine guys on that call, all of them have Laf at 1, Byfield at 2, Raymond at 3

If what you're saying is correct, that's a great example of groupthink and pretty sad. Personally, I don't care for Dobber's or EP rankings.

 

[Artanis]

And he made sure to talk about compete level as well.

That fits the Rossi mold but not Perfetti and exactly why I think there is zero chance we take Perfetti at 5

Haven't heard anything on the draft front eh?

 

[Frank8]

If what you're saying is correct, that's a great example of groupthink and pretty sad. Personally, I don't care for Dobber's or EP rankings.

I would argue the Dobber opinions are the opposite of groupthink - they've been consistent whereas other outlets have shot guys up in the last few months with little to support it.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

I would argue the Dobber opinions are the opposite of groupthink - they've been consistent whereas other outlets have shot guys up in the last few months with little to support it.

To have a full 9 out of 9 think Raymond is #3 is groupthink. To not even have 1 or 2 people think Stutzle is Top 3 when that's what NHL scouts believe is not right.

 

[Frank8]

To have a full 9 out of 9 think Raymond is #3 is groupthink. To not even have 1 or 2 people think Stutzle is Top 3 when that's what NHL scouts believe is not right.

It's pretty easy to find nine people who think Laf and By are the clear number one and two without it being group think.

 

[Rodzilla]

And it shouldn’t be. Take the best players regardless of size. If Rossi is their best player they better take him.

The Sens just haven’t taken “small” (sub 6ft) players over the past 7-8 years outside of 2 or so guys.

watching the small Tampa forwards just destroy the league has been sick. Dont need to be big to play big.


I know some people here would like us to have a team of ogres but that’s just not how it works nowadays.

not saying you dont need big players, just that it’s overrated imo.

wishlist ; Byfield Raymond

i really hope we dont take Askarov, we need skills outside the crease badly. We dont ever draft Russians anyway and Melnyk should stick to being a (poor) owner

 

[DaveMatthew]

watching the small Tampa forwards just destroy the league has been sick. Dont need to be big to play big.


I know some people here would like us to have a team of ogres but that’s just not how it works nowadays.

not saying you dont need big players, just that it’s overrated imo.

wishlist ; Byfield Raymond

i really hope we dont take Askarov, we need skills outside the crease badly. We dont ever draft Russians anyway and Melnyk should stick to being a (poor) owner

7 out of the 9 defensemen Tampa had listed on their roster were above 6'2. 6 were over 210 lbs. None were under 6'0.

Tampa had tons of skill, yes. But they were also a big team on the back-end. And at forward, they went out after the sweep last year and added a ton of sandpaper with Blake Coleman, Barclay Goodrow and Pat Maroon.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

It's pretty easy to find nine people who think Laf and By are the clear number one and two without it being group think.

This is true as well about Byfield. Most NHL scouts are split.

 

[JungleBeat]

7 out of the 9 defensemen Tampa had listed on their roster were above 6'2. 6 were over 210 lbs. None were under 6'0.

Tampa had tons of skill, yes. But they were also a big team on the back-end. And at forward, they went out after the sweep last year and added a ton of sandpaper with Blake Coleman, Barclay Goodrow and Pat Maroon.

Their backend is skilled. They’re not big and totally useless like the defence the Sens had in 2017. Imagine a Ceci - Phaneauf pairing getting 20 + minutes.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I think if they get byfield they will go with a winger if they get stutzle they will go with a D that’s my gut feeling.

I think Rossi and Stutzle will give a us a championship potential core

I believe this too.

And I believe we should trade up for Guhle. Chabot can hold down our defense as the all-around guy but we'll need some excellent role players for 2-3-4. JBD and Brann should be able to settle things down on 3-4 and Guhle could be our guy for 2 but on our 2nd pairing.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

Their backend is skilled. They’re not big and totally useless like the defence the Sens had in 2017. Imagine a Ceci - Phaneauf pairing getting 20 + minutes.

They have Luke Schenn and Zach Bogosian

 

[DaveMatthew]

Their backend is skilled. They’re not big and totally useless like the defence the Sens had in 2017. Imagine a Ceci - Phaneauf pairing getting 20 + minutes.

Sure, but size is still relevant. Hedman, Sergachev, Cernak - big and skilled. (They also have some plodders back there, though.)

You can make the argument that big and skilled players (like Sanderson for example) are more valuable than smaller, skilled players (like Drysdale and Rossi).

People often say "BPA, don't focus on size", ignoring that size can be an attribute that makes one player better than another.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

This would be the worst case scenario, good lord .

NHL Mock Draft 2020: Ottawa Senators Select Marco Rossi with No. 5 Pick

 

[JungleBeat]

They have Luke Schenn and Zach Bogosian

On the third pairing. They also got scratched for Jan Rutta a couple games. Bogosian is basically Dion in 2017 yikes.

 

[Frank8]

This would be the worst case scenario, good lord .

NHL Mock Draft 2020: Ottawa Senators Select Marco Rossi with No. 5 Pick

What is it about Rossi you don't like, exactly?

 

[JungleBeat]

Sure, but size is still relevant. Hedman, Sergachev, Cernak - big and skilled. (They also have some plodders back there, though.)

You can make the argument that big and skilled players (like Sanderson for example) are more valuable than smaller, skilled players (like Drysdale and Rossi).

People often say "BPA, don't focus on size", ignoring that size can be an attribute that makes one player better than another.

Depends on the players of course. For example, Makar and Hughes would be taken over plenty of big dmen.

 

[Taluss]

This would be the worst case scenario, good lord .

NHL Mock Draft 2020: Ottawa Senators Select Marco Rossi with No. 5 Pick

Careful... @Sens of Anarchy is going to rip you a new one...

I wouldn’t mind Rossi though, worst case scenario is Askarov or Quinn at 5

 

[DaveMatthew]

Depends on the players of course. For example, Makar and Hughes would be taken over plenty of big dmen.

Sure, but Hedman would be taken over Hughes, in an example like that. Both incredibly skilled, but you’ll take the guy who’s 6’6 instead of 5’10.

Nobody would recommend taking a late-1st round talent in the top 10 because of size, of course.

But when you’re looking at players in the same “tier”, size can definitely be a differentiator.

Sanderson and Drysdale both project to be top 2 defensemen. Sanderson is bigger. That can, and should, be a factor in a drafting decision.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

What is it about Rossi you don't like, exactly?

I don’t hate him, I just think Raymond and Rossi would be the worst case scenario for me. Luckily that’s not going to happen. I have Rossi lower than the other options and it won’t shock me to see him fall

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

Careful... @Sens of Anarchy is going to rip you a new one...

I wouldn’t mind Rossi though, worst case scenario is Askarov or Quinn at 5

I meant in combo with Raymond. If you get stutzle and Rossi it’s way better than Raymond and Rossi