NHL Entry Draft 2020 NHL Draft Discussion - PART 2

[bert]

The consolation prize... assuming no Laf or Byf.


So Who is it going to be? Who would you take next between

Raymond, Stutzle, Rossi, Perfetti, Drysdale, Holtz, Lundell, somebody else?

Pick ONE

Its not an easy choice and I think they are all good picks but , having to pick just one.. I am going with Stutzle.

I am taking Stutzle then Raymond ahead of Rossi for sure its not even a question for me. I really wish we could have seen Rossi at the WJC, he has truly incredible vision and hockey sense but there is no other elite part of his game that I can see translating to consistently beating NHL defenders. He is fully grown and really cant get any heavier or it likely effects his speed which isnt a detriment but isnt an asset either. He is having a truly phenomenal season and I think he will be a solid NHL player but I am not sure if he becomes a first line player at the NHL level. He is responsible defensively so he will be at worst a 2nd line player but I am really not sure how much better he is going to get. He is a very polished product his floor is low but I am not sure about his ceiling. Where as Stutzle if anything is closer to the Lafreniere and Byfield tier. I think Raymond is the front runner of the next level. I do see a distinct top 4 in this draft. Then another 4/5 players (not sure about Lundell) then another drop off.

Lafreniere

Byfield
Stutzle

Raymond

Drysdale
Perfetti
Rossi
Holtz
Lundell

Thats how I see it and if the sens get any combination of one of the top 4 then one of the next 5 that will be one heck of a draft for Ottawa.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

My notables:

North American Skaters
1. Alexis Lafreniere, 2. Quinton Byfield, 3. Jamie Drysdale, 4. Cole Perfetti, 5. Marco Rossi, 6. Dawson Mercer, 9. Jack Quinn, 10. Dylan Holloway, 12. Connor Zary, 13. Hendrix Lapierre, 14. Ozzy Wiesblatt, 17. Jacob Perreault, 21. William Cuylle, 23. Justin Sourdif, 28. Yan Kuznetsov, 29. Vasiliy Ponomarev, 30. Jake Neighbours, 31. Brendan Brisson, 32. Ryan O'Rourke, 34. Dylan Peterson, 35. Luke Tuch,

38. Jaromir Pytlik, 39. Antonio Stranges, 42. Ryan Francis, 44. Tyler Kleven, 52. Carter Savoie, 65. Cross Hanas, 72. Ruben Rafkin, 75. Carsen Richels, 79. Yevgeni Oksentyuk, 86. Luke Prokop, 87. Landon Slaggert, 90. Zayde Wisdom, 91. Blake Biondi,

93. Adam Raska, 94. Egor Sokolov, 112. Artem Shlaine, 120. Carson Bantle, 135. Trevor Kuntar, 157. Michal Gut, 192. Jeremie Biakabutaka, 199. Anthony Tabak

Unranked North American Skaters:
Matthew Rempe, Grant Slukynsky, Nick Capone, Logan Barlage, Tag Bertuzzi, Cole Hansen, Ryan Kirwan, Tanner Latsch, Kyle Mandleur, Alex Young

International Skaters
1. Tim Stutzle, 2. Lucas Raymond, 3. Alexander Holtz, 5. Rodion Amirov, 8. John-Jason Peterka, 9. Jan Mysak, 18. Shakir Mukhamadulin, 20. Maxim Groshev, 23. Maxim Beryozkin, 27. Alexander Nikishin, 28. Marat Khusnutdinov, 32. Bogdan Trineyev, 46. Alexander Gordin, 51. Ivan Zinchenko, 62. Kirill Kondyrev, 128. Danil Gutik

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Note: list only includes first year draft eligible players; over age players will be listed later in the month.
My notables:
1st Round
1. Alexis Lafreniere, 2. Quinton Byfield, 3. Alexander Holtz, 4. Cole Perfetti, 5. Tim Stutzle, 6. Marco Rossi, 7. Jamie Drysdale, 8. Lucas Raymond, 9. Rodion Amirov, 12. Dylan Holloway, 13. Jan Mysak, 16. Connor Zary, 17. Marat Khusnutdinov, 19. Vasily Ponomaryov, 20. Jacob Perreault, 21. Justin Sourdif, 22. Shakir Mukhamadulin, 30. Jake Neighbours, 31. Brendan Brisson

2nd Round
35. Jack Quinn, 36. Dawson Mercer, 41. Hendrix Lapierre, 43. Tyler Kleven, 49. JJ Peterka, 50. Jaromir Pytlik, 55. Ryan Francis, 57. Antonio Stranges, 58. Ozzy Wiesblatt, 60. Luke Tuch

3rd Round
66. Yan Kuznetsov, 68. Maxim Groshev, 70. Blake Biondi, 72. Landon Slaggert, 76. Will Cuylle, 77. Alexander Nikishin, 78. Artem Shlaine, 83. Ryan O'Rourke, 88. Michal Gut, 92. Bogdan Trineyev

4th Round
98. Carsen Richels, 99. Cole Hansen, 102. Adam Raska, 112. Carter Savoie, 116. Carson Bantle, 117. Cross Hanas, 123. Ruben Rafkin

5th Round
131. Kirill Kondyrev, 139. Dylan Peterson

6th Round
186. Tanner Latsch

7th Round
202. Ryan Kirwan

On Watch List
235. Jeremie Biakabutaka, 245. Matthew Rempe, 254. Zayde Wisdom, 259. Anthony Tabak, 266. Luke Prokop, 275. Maxim Beryozkin

Unlisted
Grant Slukynsky, Nick Capone

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

Everyone's 3-8 is different, going to be very interesting to see how the draft plays out.

 

[MatchesMalone]

Well which one is it? Is it better to play first line minutes with all the best players on the team or play second line without the best players with easier matchups? You cant have it both ways. There are positives and negatives to both aspects I dont really think its fair to hold it against a player.

I never said he benefits from playing on the top line, just that he benefits from playing on a stacked team. You can call it "having it both ways" if you want, but playing on a team that good has benefits either way - it would be a detriment if it keeps a player out of the top six altogether, but if that was still a problem for an 18 year old then that would be a different matter.

Probably his numbers would be even better if he was on the top line, but he's still benefitting from the overall quality of the team, due to the reasons I discussed. I wouldn't say I'm "holding it against" the player, just trying to weigh all of the factors into evaluating the stats. Granted, most (maybe all?) of the CHL prospects putting up better numbers than him are playing on their teams' top lines... but they're also playing top line matchups.

Also saying that he is benefiting from playing with Belanger... Quinn is making the players around him better not vice versa. You have admitted you havent watched him much but this argument suggests that you are unfamiliar with the player. Hoelscher is a nice player he gets Quinn the puck but one player is driving that line. If you watch the 67's highlites you will see the types of goals he is scoring and the plays he is making, he brings you out of your seat.

Not everything has to be so black and white. I have no doubt that Quinn is driving his line and creates much of his own offense, but still, playing with good players tends to help one's stats.

But if you dont believe me then here are some people with a more tangible track record than me.

OHL Prospects: Midseason Top 50 for the 2020 NHL Entry Draft

2020 Draft Prospect Rankings | NHL Draft Prospect Rankings

Sportsnet’s 2020 NHL Draft Prospect Rankings: January - Sportsnet.ca

Cool, thanks for the sources. Wow, that high on Central? Interesting. I'm definitely looking forward to watching him again.

I agree with your stance on comparing age group production when a player is a late. But sometimes there are other factors you have to take into account, this is Quinns second year in the league

Good point that I hadn't considered seriously enough.

 

[MatchesMalone]

The consolation prize... assuming no Laf or Byf.


So Who is it going to be? Who would you take next between

Raymond, Stutzle, Rossi, Perfetti, Drysdale, Holtz, Lundell, somebody else?

Pick ONE

Its not an easy choice and I think they are all good picks but , having to pick just one.. I am going with Stutzle.

Right now I'm gonna say Holtz, but its splitting hairs between him, Raymond, Stützle and Drysdale.

 

[Peptic Balcers]

Really like what I've been seeing from Jack Quinn. He was a guy that showed flashes of skill last year but was buried on the 4th line. He's been getting top 6 minutes and power play time now, much better opportunity. Wasn't on my top 50 radar to start the year but he looks better with every game. Could easily see him in the 20-30 range in june

 

[bert]

I never said he benefits from playing on the top line, just that he benefits from playing on a stacked team. You can call it "having it both ways" if you want, but playing on a team that good has benefits either way - it would be a detriment if it keeps a player out of the top six altogether, but if that was still a problem for an 18 year old then that would be a different matter.

Probably his numbers would be even better if he was on the top line, but he's still benefitting from the overall quality of the team, due to the reasons I discussed. I wouldn't say I'm "holding it against" the player, just trying to weigh all of the factors into evaluating the stats. Granted, most (maybe all?) of the CHL prospects putting up better numbers than him are playing on their teams' top lines... but they're also playing top line matchups.



Not everything has to be so black and white. I have no doubt that Quinn is driving his line and creates much of his own offense, but still, playing with good players tends to help one's stats.

In regards to playing on a good team yes it has its benefits but also helps if he was on a bad team playing on the first line getting 20+ minutes a game likely with better players than Quinn consistently plays with on his line this season. I do think there are positives and negatives to both scenarios.

Anyway appreciate the response and the discussion.

 

[GCK]

Button has moved Stutzle ahead of Byfield.

 

[InTkachukWeTrust]

Button has moved Stutzle ahead of Byfield.

I would say both players are on par. They’re completely different skill sets. I guess it just depends what you need.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

Button has moved Stutzle ahead of Byfield.

Button is an idiot and I wouldn't listen to anything he says.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

 

[tstracuzza]

Raymond over Rossi is laughable at this point

He couldn’t stick in the SHL and people think he’s NHL ready now... no chance

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Here are some excerpts on some players based on the free aspect of game reports from hockeyprospect.com
2020 NHL Draft Archives - HockeyProspect.com

Maxim Groshev

One NHL Scout “He’s like the old school Russians, built solid like a tank but he has skill.” I thought that was a quote that describes him

Ryan Kirwan

Has the best shot and release in the USHL. Just seemed like a (somewhat) mobile cannon tonight. Wasn’t too interested in the rest of the game, however...Kirwan showcased and NHL Caliber shot on the Power Play, one with a half wind up one-timer...Good skating base, but doesn’t really push the pace too much. Shot is a major weapon. Plays the right point on the PP and cranks one timers

Carter Savoie

A hard forechecker and tough on the puck when he wants to be. ...He showed off his ability to be a force on the puck tonight, being very steady and hard to knock off....He shows moments of great hustle and keeps his feet moving with the puck or chasing the puck down....Not the best skater but has good hockey IQ and anticipations. He knows where to be on the ice. He was mostly noticeable on the power play

Trevor Kuntar

Seems like he wants to play a power forward style of game…there’s some battle to him, a little bit of sandpaper.

Dylan Peterson

Peterson is a total package from an “ability” perspective. He has the size, great wheels, terrific hands, and he’s a smart player....Just a horse of a winger. Already very advanced and well-rounded for his age. Lot of talent and creativity....He’s got an intriguing combination of size, speed and skill.

Marat Khusnutdinov

Great work ethic. He worked hard in his own zone and always provided an honest effort on the backcheck. He showed good support deep in his zone

Ozzy Wiesblatt

Has a ton of speed and plays a real high energy, chippy style. ...High energy, “fast twitch” offensive winger. Flashes a good deal of stick skills and an array of creative moves or attempts at moves...He is very quick on his skates and shows great hustle

Tyler Kleven

Big, burly defenseman who is not shy about initiating contact. At his size and strength, he can crush virtually anyone in the league...Kleven played a solid shutdown style of game and showed impressive abilities as a strong reliable defenseman. He played a very mean game in his own zone...His physical play and overall skating ability are very intriguing for a six-and-a-half-foot defenseman,

Vasili Ponomaryov

Highly skilled player who likes to have the puck on his stick. Explosive skater, quick and agile stick handler and possesses a strong, quick release....He was a standout in terms of his two-way game today, creating scoring chances with his speed and playmaking abilities.

 

[JungleBeat]

Raymond over Rossi is laughable at this point

He couldn’t stick in the SHL and people think he’s NHL ready now... no chance

Not really. Raymond is playing limited minutes on a top SHL team in a professional league that is top three in the world. What do you expect him to do with less than 10 minutes of ice time? Raymond is also younger than Rossi who’s probably one of the oldest players in the draft. Its close but not laughable.

 

[Salva Mea]

lundell and raymond if no lafre or byfield... it will be dream..

also rossi-perfetti and stutzle - option..



wow. this draft will be our bridge or heaven or hell

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I am taking Stutzle then Raymond ahead of Rossi for sure its not even a question for me. I really wish we could have seen Rossi at the WJC, he has truly incredible vision and hockey sense but there is no other elite part of his game that I can see translating to consistently beating NHL defenders. He is fully grown and really cant get any heavier or it likely effects his speed which isnt a detriment but isnt an asset either. He is having a truly phenomenal season and I think he will be a solid NHL player but I am not sure if he becomes a first line player at the NHL level. He is responsible defensively so he will be at worst a 2nd line player but I am really not sure how much better he is going to get. He is a very polished product his floor is low but I am not sure about his ceiling. Where as Stutzle if anything is closer to the Lafreniere and Byfield tier. I think Raymond is the front runner of the next level. I do see a distinct top 4 in this draft. Then another 4/5 players (not sure about Lundell) then another drop off.

Lafreniere

Byfield
Stutzle

Raymond

Drysdale
Perfetti
Rossi
Holtz
Lundell

Thats how I see it and if the sens get any combination of one of the top 4 then one of the next 5 that will be one heck of a draft for Ottawa.

ehh is he here without the WJC

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Raymond over Rossi is laughable at this point

He couldn’t stick in the SHL and people think he’s NHL ready now... no chance

Raymond over rossi is almost universal.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I would say both players are on par. They’re completely different skill sets. I guess it just depends what you need.

I don't see how or why they are on par

 

[MatchesMalone]

Not really. Raymond is playing limited minutes on a top SHL team in a professional league that is top three in the world. What do you expect him to do with less than 10 minutes of ice time? Raymond is also younger than Rossi who’s probably one of the oldest players in the draft. Its close but not laughable.

Haha I dunno who the hell told that guy Raymond was NHL-ready. He needs to find better sources. The great appeal about Raymond is how NHL-translatable his game is: drives the middle of the ice, battles in front of the net, does everything full speed, aggressive forechecker and backchecker. The only weakness right now is, well, physical weakness. He's just not strong enough to play his game to its full potential at the pro level. He's likely a couple years from the NHL, but he's gonna be a star.

 

[bert]

Raymond over Rossi is laughable at this point

He couldn’t stick in the SHL and people think he’s NHL ready now... no chance

Its about projecting the player about what they will be when they develop. Secondly your statement is incorrect Raymond is currently playing on the best and deepest team in the SHL.

ehh is he here without the WJC

Well he has the best production of a 17 year old ever in the DEL. So the reason he was even on the radar is because of that but the raw ability and elite skill he showed off at the WJC is definitely part of it. Impossible to ignore, youd have to be blind not to see it.

I don't see how or why they are on par

Tune into a game i guess. The highlites arent a bad indicator either. This is a good thing for the sens, I am not sure why you are against it. Raymond is right there with them too.

 

[ijif]

ehh is he here without the WJC

I can't speak for others, but I had him at #3 before he played a game in the DEL.

 

[MatchesMalone]

I can't speak for others, but I had him at #3 before he played a game in the DEL.

Can confirm. I thought you were insane when you said he's probably better than Raymond.

Stützle actually fell for me after World Juniors. I had it Lafreniere, Byfield, Holtz, Stützle, Raymond.

I hadn't seen Stützle until he turned pro, but then was floored by how poised and crafty he looked at the pro level, picking apart seasoned veterans, in addition to the obvious speed and skill. But I had slight concerns about his finishing ability and perimeter-style game that I attributed to him playing pro. So when he still had the same issues at World Juniors, while Raymond picked up where he left off at the U18s, but another level up, they swapped spots for me.

But yeah, for people who haven't seen Stützle until World Juniors, of course he moved up some lists.

 

[BondraTime]

ehh is he here without the WJC

Yes, look at his past 2 seasons and every international event he's been in.

The lowest he was prior to the World Juniors was 7, while he was as high as 3

 

[HSF]

What's wrong with bumping up players having an excellent WJC? Its a great tournament to see players play against their peers. Sure your whole opinion shouldn't be based on that but I think it definitely holds a lot of value