2020-21 Norris Trophy candidates: Adam Fox, Victor Hedman, Cale Makar

[viach]

Mike Chambers from DP:

"The Avs’ Cale Makar got my No. 1 vote for the Norris Trophy (best defenseman), which is among six awards voted on by the Professional Hockey Writers Association (including the Hart). But from what I’m hearing from many of my PHWA peers, the 22-year-old Makar will get more secondary votes than firsts based on his age and the belief he’s still no Victor Hedman in terms of two-way dominance at the position.
Look for Hedman, the 6-foot-6 Lightning standout, to win the Norris for the second time, and first since 2018."

 

[majormajor]

Nobody is close to Hedman as best defenseman despite like 10 defenseman having better seasons than him this past year?

I wouldn't be upset about it if it was only 10 guys in the league. He was the 6th best D-man on his team in April!

Mike Chambers from DP:

"The Avs’ Cale Makar got my No. 1 vote for the Norris Trophy (best defenseman), which is among six awards voted on by the Professional Hockey Writers Association (including the Hart). But from what I’m hearing from many of my PHWA peers, the 22-year-old Makar will get more secondary votes than firsts based on his age and the belief he’s still no Victor Hedman in terms of two-way dominance at the position.
Look for Hedman, the 6-foot-6 Lightning standout, to win the Norris for the second time, and first since 2018."

This disaster means we need some kind of reform. We need some kind of monitoring device so that we know they actually watch the games for these players. Most PHWA members didn't watch Tampa until the playoffs began.

That or embrace a more selective panel that actually sits down and watches all of the video together, in an intensive period, before coming up with a decision.

 

[ICanMotteBelieveIt]

Fox should win it, Makar should be 2nd, Hedman 3rd.

But I think Hedman will win it, since it's an reputation award.

Also I think it's dumb as f*** that not making the playoffs should factor in.

It's supposed to go out to the best D-man for the season. It's not Fox's fault the Rangers ended up in the toughest division and that Makar & Hedman plays on better teams.

As long as Hedman doesn't win it, I'm happy.

And I'm a fellow swede. I just think he hasn't earned it this year.

 

[Reality Czech]

Mike Chambers from DP:

"The Avs’ Cale Makar got my No. 1 vote for the Norris Trophy (best defenseman), which is among six awards voted on by the Professional Hockey Writers Association (including the Hart). But from what I’m hearing from many of my PHWA peers, the 22-year-old Makar will get more secondary votes than firsts based on his age and the belief he’s still no Victor Hedman in terms of two-way dominance at the position.
Look for Hedman, the 6-foot-6 Lightning standout, to win the Norris for the second time, and first since 2018."

It's not a belief, it's a fact.

 

[Phil McKraken]

Nobody is close to Hedman as best defenseman despite like 10 defenseman having better seasons than him this past year? Fox and Makar were much better than Hedman this past season

Not until Hedman started playing injured in May. It's true that they had better seasons because of that, and awards shouldn't take injuries into account, but if I'm playing a game tonight I'm going with Hedman.

 

[LOFIN]

Makar is better than Fox offensively, but Fox is way, way better than Makar defensively. Fox is absolutely the kind of player that casual fans will simply never fully appreciate because they don’t see him day in and day out and I am quite fine with that honestly.

Disagreed. He might be better, but saying he is way better is just BS.

 

[The S5]

Well, Hedman is tall, so he's got that going for him. Oh, yeah, he plays with some extremely talented offensive players who pump up his points totals, so there is that too.
Kidding aside, he is a really fantastic player and one every team would love to have on their side. As far as him being the best defenseman in the league, well, that can be debated. What's silly is that people so easily eat the pablum doled out by the media. I guaranty that the majority of people on this site that coronate Hedman as "the best", haven't watched the guy nearly enough to make any type of educated evaluation.
Same goes for Fox or Makar, either of whom should win the Norris this year.

 

[Lays]

Not until Hedman started playing injured in May. It's true that they had better seasons because of that, and awards shouldn't take injuries into account, but if I'm playing a game tonight I'm going with Hedman.

Uh yeah, Fox and Makar were better the entire season. It wasn’t close either

 

[Rabid Ranger]

So, Hedman, Makar, and then Fox? That's how I expect the voting to go and it will be backwards! Not a shocker though.

 

[Phil McKraken]

Uh yeah, Fox and Makar were better the entire season. It wasn’t close either

Hedman led all defensemen in both points and points per game until his injury.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Hedman led all defensemen in both points and points per game until his injury.

Do you think scoring is the best indicator of a defenseman's performance?

 

[Rschmitz]

Do you think scoring is the best indicator of a defenseman's performance?

It's typically what most of the voters look at. If defensive game was as important as it should be, than Hedman would have more than just 1 Norris.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

It's typically what most of the voters look at. If defensive game was as important as it should be, than Hedman would have more than just 1 Norris.

But that wasn't what was being contested. The point that was made was that Fox and Makar were better defenseman this year.

 

[Rschmitz]

But that wasn't what was being contested. The point that was made was that Fox and Makar were better defenseman this year.

I was responding to that comment verbatim with respect to Norris trophy voting, I wasn't following the thread or the context. I am sorry if my point was irrelevant

 

[Lays]

Hedman led all defensemen in both points and points per game until his injury.

Cool Adam Fox played against the toughest competition in the league and put up more points than Hedman. Hedman didn’t even play the hardest minutes on his own team, that was McDonagh. Check literally any advanced stat from this year, Fox was better in every which way you want to spin it

 

[Phil McKraken]

Cool Adam Fox played against the toughest competition in the league and put up more points than Hedman. Hedman didn’t even play the hardest minutes on his own team, that was McDonagh. Check literally any advanced stat from this year, Fox was better in every which way you want to spin it

Both Hedman's points and advanced stats were better than those of Fox pre his injury in May.

 

[Fataldogg]

Both Hedman's points and advanced stats were better than those of Fox pre his injury in May.

Injured or not, you cannot excuse 6-7 weeks of poor play. I remember reading on here, even from Lightning fans, that Hedman completely underwhelmed the last month and a half. It is an award for the year.

Of the three, I have 1. Fox, 2. Makar, 3. Hedman. To be honest, Hedman doesn't even deserve to be a finalist given how competitive the field was this year. I would not have him in the top-3. Had Makar not missed 25% of the season, I would have him ay #1.

If Hedman wins, which seems likely, its going to be one of the most divisive Norris wins of the past decade.

Hedman is the best defense man in the NHL. He just wasn't this season.

 

[Phil McKraken]

Injured or not, you cannot excuse 6-7 weeks of poor play. I remember reading on here, even from Lightning fans, that Hedman completely underwhelmed the last month and a half. It is an award for the year.

Of the three, I have 1. Fox, 2. Makar, 3. Hedman. To be honest, Hedman doesn't even deserve to be a finalist given how competitive the field was this year. I would not have him in the top-3. Had Makar not missed 25% of the season, I would have him ay #1.

If Hedman wins, which seems likely, its going to be one of the most divisive Norris wins of the past decade.

Hedman is the best defense man in the NHL. He just wasn't this season.

Well that was the argument all along. Hedman shouldn't win it since he didn't have the best season, but he is the best d-man in the league and probably would have won it if healthy.

 

[DialUp]

This whole debate about "deserving" or "who was the best this year" blah blah is exhausting. All it does it cause resentment to the PHWA. The solution is to have a minimum age for the Norris win. Young players can get "honorable up-and-coming mentions" so we don't have to worry about reputation wins. Problem solved. Move the f*** on, Fox and Makar will win theirs in a year where they are clearly not the best D-man but that they were due. It's OK. One day Hedman will be old and will be shit. If there was a D-man even close to Hedman that wasn't early 20's that guy would have won't it over Makar and Fox anyway and we all know it.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

This whole debate about "deserving" or "who was the best this year" blah blah is exhausting. All it does it cause resentment to the PHWA. The solution is to have a minimum age for the Norris win. Young players can get "honorable up-and-coming mentions" so we don't have to worry about reputation wins. Problem solved. Move the f*** on, Fox and Makar will win theirs in a year where they are clearly not the best D-man but that they were due. It's OK. One day Hedman will be old and will be shit. If there was a D-man even close to Hedman that wasn't early 20's that guy would have won't it over Makar and Fox anyway and we all know it.

That's really dumb.

If a rookie/sophmore comes in and puts up 80+ points while being at least decent defensively, they'll win the Norris regardless of their age.

 

[DialUp]

That's really dumb.

If a rookie/sophmore comes in and puts up 80+ points while being at least decent defensively, they'll win the Norris regardless of their age.

It's already dumb. There is no guarantee that 80+ rookie/soph is going to win under the current unspoken rules because of the whole "who would you want out there in crunch time" name rep mindset. Mind as well make it all that much more dumber.

 

[Sempiternal]

Either now or later, the torch will be passed to Makar.

 

[majormajor]

Both Hedman's points and advanced stats were better than those of Fox pre his injury in May.

That's not quite right.

In the first ~6 weeks of the season Hedman was doing great. He got a lot of attention for his scoring early. After that I'm not sure if he was any better than Fox and Makar, some of the advanced stats for him weren't as impressive. And the injury was I think March 30th, not in May. He played awfully throughout April and into early May.

 

[majormajor]

This whole debate about "deserving" or "who was the best this year" blah blah is exhausting. All it does it cause resentment to the PHWA. The solution is to have a minimum age for the Norris win. Young players can get "honorable up-and-coming mentions" so we don't have to worry about reputation wins. Problem solved. Move the f*** on, Fox and Makar will win theirs in a year where they are clearly not the best D-man but that they were due. It's OK. One day Hedman will be old and will be shit. If there was a D-man even close to Hedman that wasn't early 20's that guy would have won't it over Makar and Fox anyway and we all know it.

So your solution is to just separate Norris from "best D-man of the year" and have it mean something else...

Perhaps you can do that and call it the Noris Trophy, and not tell the writers that things changed. And then have people who certifiably watch the games vote for the new Norris Trophy.

 

[ted2019]

Fox/Makar/Hedman