Speculation: 2020-21 Management/Coach/Owner Discussion

[Smirnov2Chistov]

Sad to hear this, but it’s been expected. Everyone else has been doing it already

 

[bumperkisser]

Good for the owners for holding out this long. Sucks that it had to be done

 

[Kalv]

At least our MGMT is doing it in a respectful manner. Some other teams looked really messy already in the spring.

 

[Static]

At least our MGMT is doing it in a respectful manner. Some other teams looked really messy already in the spring.

I don't know what kind of a respectful way a billionaire can lay off a bunch of employees days before Christmas. It was a nicely tailored PR statement at least, I'm sure they will take solace in that.

 

[Kalv]

I don't know what kind of a respectful way a billionaire can lay off a bunch of employees days before Christmas. It was a nicely tailored PR statement at least, I'm sure they will take solace in that.

Laying them off just after Christmas or New Years' would not be cheerful as well.
Even if they are Billionaires, it's not like their pockets are full of cash to throw away. Their wealth is a lot of assets. They have proved over and over again that they are decent owners, with investments in the infrastructure, charities, etc. While of course, it sucks that they had to do it but I have no hard feelings towards them.

Also, this paints some picture about what to expect from the next season. Things have to be far from clear or certain.

 

[Static]

Laying them off just after Christmas or New Years' would not be cheerful as well.
Even if they are Billionaires, it's not like their pockets are full of cash to throw away. Their wealth is a lot of assets. They have proved over and over again that they are decent owners, with investments in the infrastructure, charities, etc. While of course, it sucks that they had to do it but I have no hard feelings towards them.

Also, this paints some picture about what to expect from the next season. Things have to be far from clear or certain.

Billionaires spend their money on a lot of dumb, unnecessary shit, paying their employees is not one of them.

People can do whatever they want with their money, but I do believe there is a moral obligation to help if you can in a great time of need
and they can. This decision is gross.

 

[AngelDuck]

Laying them off just after Christmas or New Years' would not be cheerful as well.
Even if they are Billionaires, it's not like their pockets are full of cash to throw away. Their wealth is a lot of assets. They have proved over and over again that they are decent owners, with investments in the infrastructure, charities, etc. While of course, it sucks that they had to do it but I have no hard feelings towards them.

Also, this paints some picture about what to expect from the next season. Things have to be far from clear or certain.

They have way more easily liquidated assets than you think.

It’s hard for us common folks to fathom how much they really have.

it’s really a sad thing that we defend these decisions as a society, instead of condemning them like we should

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Billionaires spend their money on a lot of dumb, unnecessary shit, paying their employees is not one of them.

People can do whatever they want with their money, but I do believe there is a moral obligation to help if you can in a great time of need
and they can. This decision is gross.

Yeah. There's no rule against being an asshole. But guess what - if you're a fabulously wealthy person with no material concerns beyond maintaining your fabulous wealth, and you choose this path - you're an asshole.

 

[bumperkisser]

I gotta say. The amount of entitled posters condemning our owners is quite surprising.

Have any of you guys ever put the blood sweat and tears into running a business? And a successful business at that? Its not like one day they just suddenly became billionaires and said screw these employees, my yacht needs gas so I'm not gonna pay Tom and Jerry.

Too few people appreciate the struggles that entrepreneurs go through and just act like entitled children expecting someone to look out for them. They see the result of the hard work and deem somehow that it's unfair that someone else succeeded and demand retribution.

These owners have proven already in the past that they care about the people and their employees. Their track record shows that this decision was probably not taken lightly.

In no way am I saying paying these people for another month or 2 months would bankrupt the Samueli's. But to EXPECT UNGRATEFULLY and then CONDEMN them for stopping when they've supported these people for longer than many other owners in the league is poor taste and imo speaks to the psychology of the crowd. If they stopped paying after new years I bet the same crowd would say what a bunch of crummy owners. Way to ruin someone's 2021.

The reality of it is the world is in a state of chaos right now, and instead of lamenting and complaining about someone doing a good thing by trying to pay someone for well past when our season was over, how about we start appreciating the gesture that they made in the first place when they never even had to do this. Not just the Samueli's, appreciate the kind gestures that people in your everyday life, them even more so!

 

[Static]

I gotta say. The amount of entitled posters condemning our owners is quite surprising.

Have any of you guys ever put the blood sweat and tears into running a business? And a successful business at that? Its not like one day they just suddenly became billionaires and said screw these employees, my yacht needs gas so I'm not gonna pay Tom and Jerry.

Too few people appreciate the struggles that entrepreneurs go through and just act like entitled children expecting someone to look out for them. They see the result of the hard work and deem somehow that it's unfair that someone else succeeded and demand retribution.

These owners have proven already in the past that they care about the people and their employees. Their track record shows that this decision was probably not taken lightly.

In no way am I saying paying these people for another month or 2 months would bankrupt the Samueli's. But to EXPECT UNGRATEFULLY and then CONDEMN them for stopping when they've supported these people for longer than many other owners in the league is poor taste and imo speaks to the psychology of the crowd. If they stopped paying after new years I bet the same crowd would say what a bunch of crummy owners. Way to ruin someone's 2021.

The reality of it is the world is in a state of chaos right now, and instead of lamenting and complaining about someone doing a good thing by trying to pay someone for well past when our season was over, how about we start appreciating the gesture that they made in the first place when they never even had to do this. Not just the Samueli's, appreciate the kind gestures that people in your everyday life, them even more so!

This right here is what is wrong with the world. No, I don't expect them to take care of the people who lift and run their business (business is run on...labor), because that just isn't what people in their position do. People in their position view employees as dollars, and they adjust accordingly. Nevermind that as billionaires they wouldn't even feel the cost of paying these peoples' salaries. They wouldn't flinch.

No, I didn't expect them to do the right thing, I just hoped they would, and they didn't. I envy the Samueli's position, because they can positively affect peoples' lives with a push of a button over a phone and go about their day if they so choose.

It's their right to make whatever decision they want in regards to their company and their money, and it's my right to criticize their greed and lack of compassion.

 

[Static]

All of this is very on brand for them. They have always come off as completely detached and only see their mistakes well after the fact, if anyone gets them to notice at all. I'm sure in two years we will get a nice formal interview where they thank those who made "great sacrifices" during a tough time. They might even get a nice plaque in the arena.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I believe the owners are getting shafted on this thread. As others have mentioned, so many other franchises made furloughs long, long ago. Getting furloughed is never a good thing, but there are other contexts involved.

In hockey terms, if you're put in a losing situation, then you're just set up to lose. Many companies in California are feeling this. The Samueli's are no different. Months ago, Disneyland let go 28,000 workers because California policy was to remain shutdown. At that same time, the policy in Florida was to be partially open to where Disney World was open. Because Disney World was partially open, they can produce capital. Because Disneyland remained closed, then there is no capital being generated.

This is why I do not think Anaheim would be hockey hub, let alone any other CA team, because the policy in CA is to remain shutdown. The SF 49ers football team cannot play in their stadium in Santa Clara due to now policies and one of the new policies is to be quarantined for 14 days if are travelling beyond 150 miles from Santa Clara. This means the 49ers have to relocate their organization to Arizona for a couple of games, until Dec 21, 2020 (the proposed designated date of policy relief).

Bringing it back to the owners. Just looking at owning the Honda Center. They not only hold hockey games, but also some college basketball games, rodeos, monster jams, and a plethora of concerts. All that money generated is no longer there. Then factor in all those companies who pay for sponsorships to all of these venues when there are no venues. That's also revenue lost.

The Samueli's do not know when the policies will change to where they can start to generate capital again. They've held out far longer than many other franchises and companies. That means they have been hemorrhaging for quite some time making payments while not generating any capital, which implies they are losing money. We know they are already losing money owning the Ducks, but conflate that with paying workers without generating any monies and it becomes exacerbated. (Sure, the Ducks' value has gone up, but to get that value, then they'd have to sell the Ducks to get that value... liquidating ownership of the Ducks.)

Don't blame the owners of any company or business, blame the policies they have to abide by. Florida is partially open and has allowed partial capacities in their home football games, but CA just forced out one of its own teams to play in another state despite having no fans in the stadium at all. Disney owns both Disneyland and Disney World, but one remains closed and is forced to furlough 28,000 employees whereas the other is partially open, who also was a hub for the NBA playoffs. The situation sucks, but if work isn't available, then capital also isn't available.

The Samueli's have proven time and time again that they go above and beyond. It seems as though now they have to help themselves first in a dire situation for them and their organization. You know who is hiring en masse? Amazon. Why? Because they are generating capital as everyone is using them in this environment. The policy favors Amazon while many other companies are furloughing employees or companies shutdown completely.

 

[bumperkisser]

This right here is what is wrong with the world. No, I don't expect them to take care of the people who lift and run their business (business is run on...labor), because that just isn't what people in their position do. People in their position view employees as dollars, and they adjust accordingly. Nevermind that as billionaires they wouldn't even feel the cost of paying these peoples' salaries. They wouldn't flinch.

No, I didn't expect them to do the right thing, I just hoped they would, and they didn't. I envy the Samueli's position, because they can positively affect peoples' lives with a push of a button over a phone and go about their day if they so choose.

It's their right to make whatever decision they want in regards to their company and their money, and it's my right to criticize their greed and lack of compassion.

Yes. Business is run on labour. That labour has an exchange for a salary. When the business is closed, and they're still paying for labour that isn't even happening, I'd say that's pretty good. And to top it all off it's been 6? Months? since they've been closed. So basically it's been 6 months of donations out of pocket.

And as stated above, billionaire is a statement if net worth, not liquid cash. It's not like they have a billion dollars sitting as cash. Usually businesses are run on cash flow and money in from revenue pays expenses. If there's no revenue, there's no cash to pay expenses.

I also think it's very self-righteous to just claim that the RIGHT thing to do is for them to just continue bleeding out of their own pocket to serve the community. This is once again the entitlement I'm talking about. If that is the case, I hope you put your money where your mouth is and have also been sponsoring others at a relatively same rate over the past 6 months.

I'm not sure why you're talking about rights when I never said anything about this. Obviously anyone can do anything. We're having a discussion about perspective.

If you're feeling envious, I bet you wouldn't have been envious when they were barely starting out grinding away and going through the years it takes to build it up to anything that's worth mentioning.

Perhaps you too should open up a business and then you can affect their lives with a push of a button. No need to be envious, even 1 makes a difference.

 

[Static]

Yes. Business is run on labour. That labour has an exchange for a salary. When the business is closed, and they're still paying for labour that isn't even happening, I'd say that's pretty good. And to top it all off it's been 6? Months? since they've been closed. So basically it's been 6 months of donations out of pocket.

And as stated above, billionaire is a statement if net worth, not liquid cash. It's not like they have a billion dollars sitting as cash. Usually businesses are run on cash flow and money in from revenue pays expenses. If there's no revenue, there's no cash to pay expenses.

I also think it's very self-righteous to just claim that the RIGHT thing to do is for them to just continue bleeding out of their own pocket to serve the community. This is once again the entitlement I'm talking about. If that is the case, I hope you put your money where your mouth is and have also been sponsoring others at a relatively same rate over the past 6 months.

I'm not sure why you're talking about rights when I never said anything about this. Obviously anyone can do anything. We're having a discussion about perspective.

If you're feeling envious, I bet you wouldn't have been envious when they were barely starting out grinding away and going through the years it takes to build it up to anything that's worth mentioning.

Perhaps you too should open up a business and then you can affect their lives with a push of a button. No need to be envious, even 1 makes a difference.

I volunteer at food shelters and am a registered nurse. When I say I'm envious of their ability to help people without having to lift a finger it's because I see people weekly risking much more than money. That's my perspective.

I hope whatever they buy with the money they save from cutting people loose is worth it. I really do.

 

[Static]

I believe the owners are getting shafted on this thread. As others have mentioned, so many other franchises made furloughs long, long ago. Getting furloughed is never a good thing, but there are other contexts involved.

In hockey terms, if you're put in a losing situation, then you're just set up to lose. Many companies in California are feeling this. The Samueli's are no different. Months ago, Disneyland let go 28,000 workers because California policy was to remain shutdown. At that same time, the policy in Florida was to be partially open to where Disney World was open. Because Disney World was partially open, they can produce capital. Because Disneyland remained closed, then there is no capital being generated.

This is why I do not think Anaheim would be hockey hub, let alone any other CA team, because the policy in CA is to remain shutdown. The SF 49ers football team cannot play in their stadium in Santa Clara due to now policies and one of the new policies is to be quarantined for 14 days if are travelling beyond 150 miles from Santa Clara. This means the 49ers have to relocate their organization to Arizona for a couple of games, until Dec 21, 2020 (the proposed designated date of policy relief).

Bringing it back to the owners. Just looking at owning the Honda Center. They not only hold hockey games, but also some college basketball games, rodeos, monster jams, and a plethora of concerts. All that money generated is no longer there. Then factor in all those companies who pay for sponsorships to all of these venues when there are no venues. That's also revenue lost.

The Samueli's do not know when the policies will change to where they can start to generate capital again. They've held out far longer than many other franchises and companies. That means they have been hemorrhaging for quite some time making payments while not generating any capital, which implies they are losing money. We know they are already losing money owning the Ducks, but conflate that with paying workers without generating any monies and it becomes exacerbated. (Sure, the Ducks' value has gone up, but to get that value, then they'd have to sell the Ducks to get that value... liquidating ownership of the Ducks.)

Don't blame the owners of any company or business, blame the policies they have to abide by. Florida is partially open and has allowed partial capacities in their home football games, but CA just forced out one of its own teams to play in another state despite having no fans in the stadium at all. Disney owns both Disneyland and Disney World, but one remains closed and is forced to furlough 28,000 employees whereas the other is partially open, who also was a hub for the NBA playoffs. The situation sucks, but if work isn't available, then capital also isn't available.

The Samueli's have proven time and time again that they go above and beyond. It seems as though now they have to help themselves first in a dire situation for them and their organization. You know who is hiring en masse? Amazon. Why? Because they are generating capital as everyone is using them in this environment. The policy favors Amazon while many other companies are furloughing employees or companies shutdown completely.

This isnt all needed. The short version is, they have more than enough money to not do this and not change their everyday life as well, but they chose not to. That's it.

 

[duxfan1101]

I truly appreciate the work that the Samuelis have done in Orange County. They have grown the game here so much since they took over and they have even made donations to the synagogue that my family is a part of. I also remember them being among the first owners in all of the major NA sports to commit to paying their employees for a lengthy period of time at the beginning of the pandemic, which is made even more impressive to me by the fact that the Ducks likely generate an amount of revenue that would rank them near the bottom of NA teams.

With that being said, the fact that they made these cuts at this time is strange. If they had the ability to pay people up to this point, I would have thought they could just keep going until things were back to normal. However, I won't claim that I know what their situation is. I'm sure they have their reasons, I just wish there was a little more transparency, which, unfortunately, will likely never happen.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

This isnt all needed. The short version is, they have more than enough money to not do this and not change their everyday life as well, but they chose not to. That's it.

Do they? It's all in perspectives. But it appears you're pushing for a particular economic system. With that said, the Samueli's, when generating capital, have given back to the community as well as taken the gamble to create grassroots hockey.

Again, Disneyland remains closed and had to furlough 28,000 employees due to CA state policies, but Disney World is open (partially open) due to a different state policy in Florida. Both are owned by the same company. I'm sure the company would like to be employing workers because that means they're generating capital. I'd like to hear your comment on this particular situation since you cannot respond to a detailed rebuttal.

 

[Static]

Do they? It's all in perspectives. But it appears you're pushing for a particular economic system. With that said, the Samueli's, when generating capital, have given back to the community as well as taken the gamble to create grassroots hockey.

Again, Disneyland remains closed and had to furlough 28,000 employees due to CA state policies, but Disney World is open (partially open) due to a different state policy in Florida. Both are owned by the same company. I'm sure the company would like to be employing workers because that means they're generating capital. I'd like to hear your comment on this particular situation since you cannot respond to a detailed rebuttal.

My rebuttal is billionaires can afford to pay their employee salaries. If you don't believe that, or want to get into some weird debate about "capital", then I have nothing for you here. They can afford it.

 

[bumperkisser]

I volunteer at food shelters and am a registered nurse. When I say I'm envious of their ability to help people without having to lift a finger it's because I see people weekly risking much more than money. That's my perspective.

I hope whatever they buy with the money they save from cutting people loose is worth it. I really do.

Thank you for the work that you do.

We're talking about money though. That's why Im specifically using a apples to apples comparison. A relative % for net worth when comparing ourselves to the Samueli's might be a few hundred or a few grand or 10 grand.

Just speaking for myself, I know that if someone asked me to give 1-2 grand right now over the next 6 months when I'm not generating income I wouldn't do it. So that is why I applaud them for doing it. Do I wish they paid longer? Absolutely. But to condemn them I think is unfair.

 

[bumperkisser]

My rebuttal is billionaires can afford to pay their employee salaries. If you don't believe that, or want to get into some weird debate about "capital", then I have nothing for you here. They can afford it.

It's unfortunate that you are taking such a hard stance. You're not even trying to see the other side of the situation here and understanding the other perspective.

 

[Static]

It's unfortunate that you are taking such a hard stance. You're not even trying to see the other side of the situation here and understanding the other perspective.

I don't understand what the other side is. Do you not understand how wealthy these people are? Henry was estimated to be worth 5.6 billion this year. Do you know how unfathomable that is? I understand that isn't liquid, but I also understand that sort of valuation gets a person a hell of a line of credit. These peoples' salaries are pennies, halves of pennies compared to that.

I won't pretend to know your financial situation, but I would estimate $1-2 thousand a month is not chump change to you. Now imagine you lay people off over losing $10 a month, $1 a month. That's what these salaries are compared to their wealth.

They can do what they want with their money, but they can help these people and they are making the decision not to. Their right, but I think it's terrible.

 

[Static]

We don't have to argue about it anymore. It's just distressing that people like them are defended.

 

[AngelDuck]

I don’t understand the notion that because other owners did it slightly earlier now makes it completely okay for the Samueli’s to do it.

This is a real problem for all owners(and almost every other Uber-rich person)

31 wrongs don’t make a right

 

[Deuce22]

People are people. Just because someone is wealthy, that doesn't mean they are altruistic. I'm also sure that there are poor people who are selfish. Assigning what people should do to help others in this world by how much money they have is a waste of time. The world would be a better place if everyone was generous (monetarily and otherwise) but this will never be the case. Best if we do what we can do to be generous and helpful, that's all each of us can control.

 

[pbgoalie]

Ive lost my ass financially during this

IVe borrowed equity I’m
Lucky to have and I was getting ready to open my business when the current upswing in cases in Orange County basically makes it too unsafe to operate.
I’m trying to gather resources, but right now we are planning on selling our home, again we are (currently) blessed to have some equity if we can move it, but it’s still home so a tough time.

just background, but I personally believe when people start talking about how to spend other people’s money or assets we are moving a dangerous direction

Its no my place to judge anyone on what they do with they’re money.

I don’t believe there’s an “acceptable loss” anyone should foist on someone else