Speculation: 2019 Trade Deadline

[DInTheB]

If Nyquist wants more than the Wings want to pay, but also refuses to waive at all...

It's been a while since we had justified anger like that, just saying.

The only person to be angry at is Holland. Gus wanted a full NTC for a reason. Holland gave him what he wanted.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Trading a player just to lose now is also pretty stupid. Nyquist could still be a pretty valuable player for us for several more years, he's not a vital piece but also not someone we should be desperate to throw away for any return.

So what if he stays for 20 more games then signs elsewhere? Wouldn't any compensation be better than zero? This is a no-brainer trade him at all costs and if you want him to return sign him July 1. Unless he vetoes a trade him being on the wings tomorrow after 3pm is inexcusable!

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

The only person to be angry at is Holland. Gus wanted a full NTC for a reason. Holland gave him what he wanted.

I think it'd be reasonable to be angry at Nyquist. We gave him great years here, treated him well, and now he torpedoes our return for him because he doesn't want to play in the playoffs this spring.

I would be extremely disappointed to re-sign a player who made that decision. Not only is he not doing the organization a favor, but he's also showing near-zero desire to win. I don't want the kids around a guy like that. That's the mid-2000s "Detroit Red Wings as country club" thing all over again.

 

[DInTheB]

I think it'd be reasonable to be angry at Nyquist. We gave him great years here, treated him well, and now he torpedoes our return for him because he doesn't want to play in the playoffs this spring.

I would be extremely disappointed to re-sign a player who made that decision.

Gus was a pro the entire time he was here. He fulfilled his end of the bargain. I certainly wouldn’t blame a guy who doesn’t want to uproot his life for a few months, only to then uproot it again this summer.

Plus Ken has known since December we were going to be sellers. I am sure, despite what’s said in public, that Ken has spoken to Gus’ agent to get a sense on if he would waive his NTC. For all we know, Ken has known for a while Gus wouldn’t, but now he’s trying to leverage him into waiving it.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Gus was a pro the entire time he was here. He fulfilled his end of the bargain. I certainly wouldn’t blame a guy who doesn’t want to uproot his life for a few months, only to then uproot it again this summer.

Plus Ken has known since December we were going to be sellers. I am sure, despite what’s said in public, that Ken has spoken to Gus’ agent to get a sense on if he would waive his NTC. For all we know, Ken has known for a while Gus wouldn’t, but now he’s trying to leverage him into waiving it.

I don't *not* blame Holland (I mean, look at my username). I just blame Nyquist, too.

 

[DInTheB]

I don't *not* blame Holland (I mean, look at my username). I just blame Nyquist, too.

I understand. I just personally don’t think it’s reasonable to blame a player for not waiving a clause he rightfully earned during his contract negotiation.

 

[Winger98]

I think it'd be reasonable to be angry at Nyquist. We gave him great years here, treated him well, and now he torpedoes our return for him because he doesn't want to play in the playoffs this spring.

I would be extremely disappointed to re-sign a player who made that decision. Not only is he not doing the organization a favor, but he's also showing near-zero desire to win. I don't want the kids around a guy like that. That's the mid-2000s "Detroit Red Wings as country club" thing all over again.

I think his wife's pregnant. Him not wanting to move to another team may have nothing to do with the playoffs, the wings, or anything uniquely hockey related. Frankly, I wouldn't hold that against him.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I think his wife's pregnant. Him not wanting to move to another team may have nothing to do with the playoffs, the wings, or anything uniquely hockey related. Frankly, I wouldn't hold that against him.

Although I notice that HSJ says Nyquist is willing to waive the thing. Hmm.

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/...ngs-could-move-nhl-trade-deadline/2961224002/

 

[DInTheB]

Although I notice that HSJ says Nyquist is willing to waive the thing. Hmm.

These Detroit Red Wings could be moved by Monday's NHL trade deadline

Which is cool. If his wife is pregnant though, I cannot imagine him wanting to waive it to head to a place like Calgary or Winnipeg.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

So what if he stays for 20 more games then signs elsewhere? Wouldn't any compensation be better than zero? This is a no-brainer trade him at all costs and if you want him to return sign him July 1. Unless he vetoes a trade him being on the wings tomorrow after 3pm is inexcusable!

There are many reasons why you wouldn't just "trade him at all costs". I can't disprove that pick > no pick. However, when the Wings were rolling in the late 90s, they'd trade for a guy at the TDL and then work on convincing him to stay long term. While it is now common knowledge that they're selling and going younger, I think it is short sighted to deal UFAs that aren't nailed down for "whatever". Nyquist should be dealt for a return along the same lines as Zuccarello. Dealing him for materially less than that is far more inexcusable than not dealing him at all. You deal material UFAs when they can give you a material asset. Guys like Steve Ott or Jakub Kindl are "deal at all costs" guys.

I think it'd be reasonable to be angry at Nyquist. We gave him great years here, treated him well, and now he torpedoes our return for him because he doesn't want to play in the playoffs this spring.

I would be extremely disappointed to re-sign a player who made that decision. Not only is he not doing the organization a favor, but he's also showing near-zero desire to win. I don't want the kids around a guy like that. That's the mid-2000s "Detroit Red Wings as country club" thing all over again.

Not reasonable at all. He and his team are putting out a very reasonable salary demand and the Wings are balking at that price. He also has bought into the loyalty and team concept the Wings have espoused and made Detroit his home for his family (with a wife who is pregnant). There is nothing about how Nyquist is acting that means you should be angry at him. He's not avoiding the playoffs... he doesn't want to be moved to an unfamiliar area when his wife is with child.

And frankly, I would want the kids around a guy who was brought up in the Wings system and was around several of the last elite players and leaders this team had. To be able to keep a feel for how an elite organization is supposed to act and treat its players.

 

[WingNut]

The only person to be angry at is Holland. Gus wanted a full NTC for a reason. Holland gave him what he wanted.

If he doesnt waive his NTC he would be a healthy scratch for every game the rest of the year if i was running the team.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

If he doesnt waive his NTC he would be a healthy scratch for every game the rest of the year if i was running the team.

And at the end of the year, you wouldn't be running the team anymore. Hardball **** like that would go over like a lead balloon in the locker room. The team would quit on you en masse if you tried punishing a player for exercising a clause in his contract you gave him.

 

[Perfect Human]

If the return is not good enough, keep him, but if there is a balk, or question in resigning him, trade him immediately to literally any team he will waive his NTC for.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

I have my own personal doubts that Calgary would be on a list of teams Gus would waive his NTC for. I get that they are a contender but I wouldn’t blame anyone for not wanting to play in Calgary. Nothing against the city, but there is a reason it isn’t a huge FA destination.

Is the weather and cold really that much worse than in SE Michigan? Almost every city has nice enough suburbs to find stuff to do for a few months.

That said, you’re probably right due to taxes

 

[DInTheB]

Is the weather and cold really that much worse than in SE Michigan? Almost every city has nice enough suburbs to find stuff to do for a few months.

That said, you’re probably right due to taxes

I think it’s more the travel.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

And at the end of the year, you wouldn't be running the team anymore. Hardball **** like that would go over like a lead balloon in the locker room. The team would quit on you en masse if you tried punishing a player for exercising a clause in his contract you gave him.

Every member of the PA would take notice too. So you would do an incredible amount of damage to your future negotiations.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Is the weather and cold really that much worse than in SE Michigan? Almost every city has nice enough suburbs to find stuff to do for a few months.

That said, you’re probably right due to taxes

Trade deadline guys generally just live out of a hotel room and suitcase or a very temporary business apartment lease. The options there aren't exactly a home and doctor for your pregnant wife, that isn't really how this works. That is why guys have their families stay behind more often than not.

 

[WingNut]

And at the end of the year, you wouldn't be running the team anymore. Hardball **** like that would go over like a lead balloon in the locker room. The team would quit on you en masse if you tried punishing a player for exercising a clause in his contract you gave him.

Good point but I wouldnt care what they thought. Then again I wouldnt give anyone a NTC.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Every member of the PA would take notice too. So you would do an incredible amount of damage to your future negotiations.

Oh yeah.. I didn't even get into that. Basically, an action like that, without a DAMN good reason (see Mike Richards getting caught smuggling drugs as the level of reason) would be an atom bomb on your career.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Good point but I wouldnt care what they thought. Then again I wouldnt give anyone a NTC.

It's not a matter of caring what they think. You would have your team refuse to play. Your ownership and the NHLPA would get your ass fired. It's not whether a couple guys would be angry at you. You'd be spitting in the face of a signed contract and you would wreck not only your reputation but that of your organization.

All this being said, I actually don't mind NTCs as the vast majority of the time for a material deal, they're waived. Most teams trading for rentals are the type of teams guys want to go play for. They aren't this huge barrier to negotiations that most people want to make them. NMCs are bad when you know an expansion draft is coming, but really, how many deals that aren't a desperate gasp to recoup something, anything from a UFA (usually a mid round pick) are actually derailed by a guy not waiving?

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

There are many reasons why you wouldn't just "trade him at all costs". I can't disprove that pick > no pick. However, when the Wings were rolling in the late 90s, they'd trade for a guy at the TDL and then work on convincing him to stay long term. While it is now common knowledge that they're selling and going younger, I think it is short sighted to deal UFAs that aren't nailed down for "whatever". Nyquist should be dealt for a return along the same lines as Zuccarello. Dealing him for materially less than that is far more inexcusable than not dealing him at all. You deal material UFAs when they can give you a material asset. Guys like Steve Ott or Jakub Kindl are "deal at all costs" guys.




Not reasonable at all. He and his team are putting out a very reasonable salary demand and the Wings are balking at that price. He also has bought into the loyalty and team concept the Wings have espoused and made Detroit his home for his family (with a wife who is pregnant). There is nothing about how Nyquist is acting that means you should be angry at him. He's not avoiding the playoffs... he doesn't want to be moved to an unfamiliar area when his wife is with child.

And frankly, I would want the kids around a guy who was brought up in the Wings system and was around several of the last elite players and leaders this team had. To be able to keep a feel for how an elite organization is supposed to act and treat its players.

Personally, 5.5M x 5 is not a reasonable ask from Nyquist. It's an overpayment.
The term is a year too long and the salary is .500M too much.
Just my opinion.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Personally, 5.5M x 5 is not a reasonable ask from Nyquist. It's an overpayment.
The term is a year too long and the salary is .500M too much.
Just my opinion.

I think that is his market deal, I mean he should get a slight bump over Tatar who got the 5 X 5.3. That is the natural progression of the cap percentage, maybe even a little cheaper.

I don't think it is unreasonable. I do like that Wings have taken harder stances on this with Jensen and Nyquist. I don't think either guy has had a really unreasonable ask, but the Wings aren't in a position to give these contracts with where they are as an organization. I like that we are seeing that as their position.

It also does indicate to me they are gearing up to go big game hunting. I know that will make some nervous, but I think that is the lesson Holland learned when Hossa skipped town on him and he went after depth in the last cycle. He isn't doing that again.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Personally, 5.5M x 5 is not a reasonable ask from Nyquist. It's an overpayment.
The term is a year too long and the salary is .500M too much.
Just my opinion.

That's not unreasonable.

His actual salary this very season is 5.5M. His cap hit for the last four years was 4.75M. Nyquist as a full UFA is only worth 250k more per season than a contract that ate two RFA years?

I'm not saying he should be signed for it, but it's not a crazy request. Crazy would be 7x7. That would be one he should be laughed out of the board room for asking. If your initial salary ask is only 500k over AAV and 1 year too long? You're being perfectly reasonable. It's called negotiations.

The Wings also have ground for keeping his salary and contract pretty close to what it is now (4x4.75) because Nyquist is basically a 45-50 point winger who isn't overly physical.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I've said it several times and I'll say it once more: Ken Holland is petrified of making hard decisions. At one point we had the highest number of NTC/NMCs in the league. He handed them out along with far too much term and rich AAV far beyond what should be considered reasonable. This is yet another case of him not holding a line with regard to giving out yet another unmovable contract, a true Holland specialty. I also wanted to try to move Nyquist prior to the start of the season when it would be easier for Nyquist and his family to manage things like his wife being pregnant. At this point I hope Nyquist hits free agency unless we have Yzerman calling the shots. What will likely happen if Holland is still running the show is he'll give Nyquist 4-6 years at an AAV north of 5.5 million and of course he'll learn nothing and throw in a NTC.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

While obviously I hope we can get something for Nyquist, I can’t blame a man for exercising a right he negotiated for in his contract. If that happens, I still wouldn’t consider this a bad TDL by Kenny if he can pull off any of these trades

1) Howard to Calgary for Smith and a 2nd. Sign him back in off season

2) Daley to Pittsburgh for a 3rd

3) Helm (1m retained) or Glendenning to a contender for a 4th (for Helm) or 3rd (for Glenny)