GDT: 2019 Trade Deadline: Part Two/ The Wrath of Holland

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Excuse a potentially dumb question, but by getting the "lower" of SJ and Florida's pick, does that mean the better one or worse one? Have heard picks being described as high/low both ways. Obviously Florida's pick will almost certainly be better, just not sure if that is concerned lower.

Think of it as the better pick instead of higher or lower...

Florida is likely to draft earlier than San Jose so Ottawa gets that pick.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Or some people only watch the red wings so they overvalue our players. Nyquist is so easy to replace/get a better player if you are willing to spend 5.5x5!!!

Name all those players you could get for that payment who are better than Gus.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Other deadline day developments: Ken will supposedly extend Blashill... Detroit Red Wings to extend Jeff Blashill's deal; what about Ken Holland?

The wrath of Ken indeed.

I can only wink wink and nudge nudge this so much around here guys/gals. But why does everyone keep overlooking that one of the biggest supporters Blashill might have is a guy living in the Detroit area that consults for the Lightning... You know the guy who employed his best friend, the guy that Blashill helped develop his hockey system with...

Hockey people don't have the opinion of this board on Blashill. In fact the opposite when you talk to people around the game be it NHL or USA Hockey Blash is viewed in a fairly positive light. He also has from most accounts a fantastic relationship with our future Captain.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

Looks like there was no real market for Howard if Calgary and St. Louis weren't biting. And it seems KH was only taking a 1st for him. Same goes for Glendening, but Glendening can still move next year.

Hopefully Howard re-signs for 3 years max. preferably 2.

Agree with just keeping Kronwall if all we were offered was a 4th or 5th. Doubt Vanek was getting much more than that either, but he's hurt and has a NTC anyway. So not mad about those two.

Daley and Luke will be trade bait next year. Helm will be more moveable and Big E will be in his last year as well and maybe we can get a skate sharpener for him.

 

[Ezekial]

Other deadline day developments: Ken will supposedly extend Blashill... Detroit Red Wings to extend Jeff Blashill's deal; what about Ken Holland?

The wrath of Ken indeed.

I'm completely fine with it. I know I'm in the minority.

 

[Henkka]

Hopefully Howard re-signs for 3 years max. preferably 2.

2 years should be ideal.

2021 UFA goalie class is pretty good.

Also all money from Bernier frees up at same time.

 

[Invictus12]

But to rebuild through the draft you have to take that risk. The more picks you have the greater the chance at striking paydirt. To get quality picks you have to move on from assets that have value to other teams. So you weigh out a players value to the club VS the futures they could bring in. In this case a 2nd & 3rd is what it is. Not the best return we could hope for but looking at the market it wasn't horrid.

If in 3 years the Wings are making the playoffs and still have prospects in the pipeline looking good, it will be because of moves like this. Moves that add futures for assets that wont be the make or break factor of the team.

I'm more worried about our current and upcoming youngsters in the system now. I think we have some nice pieces but they're mostly grind, shooter, net-front presence type. Outside of Larkin, Nyquist was about the only guy on the team that could thread the needle and I felt we needed more of that, not less. We do have Veleno who could very well be that precision passer but thats probably two years away. So, given the return, I think it would have been more productive to keep Nyquist. On the bright side, (for me) I think Holland is shedding salary so he could go after big fish in the summer like Karlsson or Panarin, or both!! I personaply hope so.

 

[avssuc]

The remaining vets we have will all be phased out over time during either their contract expiring years or the year before so I'm not really worried about them much. With each passing day we're closer to their departure more than anything and I don't they will hinder any kids progress in a long term view.

I wish I could share the same optimism. Abdelkader still has 4 years remaining (not counting this year), and he's an alternate captain (leader on and off the ice). Hopefully the kids don't try to emulate his mediocre, cowardly, and parasitic nature.

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

I'm more worried about our current and upcoming youngsters in the system now. I think we have some nice pieces but they're mostly grind, shooter, net-front presence type. Outside of Larkin, Nyquist was about the only guy on the team that could thread the needle and I felt we needed more of that, not less. We do have Veleno who could very well be that precision passer but thats probably two years away. So, given the return, I think it would have been more productive to keep Nyquist. On the bright side, (for me) I think Holland is shedding salary so he could go after big fish in the summer like Karlsson or Panarin, or both!! I personaply hope so.

I hope so too. Hence why I wanted Nyquist gone. Free up money for EK and I wanted Stone but he's off the table. Panarin would be a solid addition too! I'm not worried about our prospects yet, but more kicks at the can helps the problem you're talking about. With more draft selections we can target skill players instead of worrying about making sure the prospects we do select have "character". I understand why people wanted Nyquist to stay, I get it. But really, a 29 year old 45 point winger isn't the be all end all of a team, imo.

 

[jkutswings]

If Holland does get Nyquist on a good contract or an even better free agent I’ll give him props for a shrewd move. Until then I’ll call it’s an exodus of talent for a pair of scratch-n-wins.

You appear to be pessimistic at finding an equivalent or better replacement player, whether in free agency or otherwise. I think finding "another Nyquist" isn't very hard, and then you haven't lost any talent long term, while gaining extra picks. Perhaps we just agree to disagree, and we'll see what happens this summer.

 

[Shaman464]

I'm more worried about our current and upcoming youngsters in the system now. I think we have some nice pieces but they're mostly grind, shooter, net-front presence type. Outside of Larkin, Nyquist was about the only guy on the team that could thread the needle and I felt we needed more of that, not less. We do have Veleno who could very well be that precision passer but thats probably two years away. So, given the return, I think it would have been more productive to keep Nyquist. On the bright side, (for me) I think Holland is shedding salary so he could go after big fish in the summer like Karlsson or Panarin, or both!! I personaply hope so.

Veleno, at least, is supposed to be a good playmaker. The questions that held him back were his goal scoring, and how his playmaking/offensive skill will translate. It may not completely translate, but to say they don't have any playmakers, and potentially really good ones, is not true.

 

[jkutswings]

Name all those players you could get for that payment who are better than Gus.

I think Nyquist will get more like $36M over 6 years. And at that rate, I think you're at least in the conversation for a Kevin Hayes or even an Anders Lee, both of which I would MUCH sooner have than Gus.

 

[SirloinUB]

You appear to be pessimistic at finding an equivalent or better replacement player, whether in free agency or otherwise. I think finding "another Nyquist" isn't very hard, and then you haven't lost any talent long term, while gaining extra picks. Perhaps we just agree to disagree, and we'll see what happens this summer.

The thing is Nyquist wasn’t the problem and he wouldn’t be the problem at 5.5 million. Now they have to replace the output of our second most productive player just to get the team back to its current level, never mind the improvements needed to actually crawl out of the league basement.

 

[DetroitRed]

I can only wink wink and nudge nudge this so much around here guys/gals. But why does everyone keep overlooking that one of the biggest supporters Blashill might have is a guy living in the Detroit area that consults for the Lightning... You know the guy who employed his best friend, the guy that Blashill helped develop his hockey system with...

Hockey people don't have the opinion of this board on Blashill. In fact the opposite when you talk to people around the game be it NHL or USA Hockey Blash is viewed in a fairly positive light. He also has from most accounts a fantastic relationship with our future Captain.

The only problem is that's a good argument for Blashill as a person, an argument for his general professionalism and friendship, but it doesn't take into account his performance in the NHL. You know, these guys who work together are likely very friendly. And what coach wouldn't love Dylan Larkin?

It's certainly no mistake of his, the place the Wings are in, and that's the other thing he has going for him. I think the frustration with him here is based upon him being a little too rigid.

 

[jkutswings]

The thing is Nyquist wasn’t the problem and he wouldn’t be the problem at 5.5 million. Now they have to replace the output of our second most productive player just to get the team back to its current level, never mind the improvements needed to actually crawl out of the league basement.

I'm not saying he's a problem. I'm saying you can either keep him for this meaningless home stretch and get no additional assets, or get a couple extra picks, lose another few games to improve draft stock, and easily find a replacement this summer for a similar cap hit.

 

[Shaman464]

I'm not saying he's a problem. I'm saying you can either keep him for this meaningless home stretch and get no additional assets, or get a couple extra picks, lose another few games to improve draft stock, and easily find a replacement this summer for a similar cap hit.

If Zadina makes it out of camp next year the top 6 wingers look like:

Bert--C--Mantha
AA---C--Zadina

And that's if Ras doesn't take a step forward in the off season. The team has good options for top 6 wing next season. Losing Nyquist isn't nearly as big a deal as people make it out to be. I'd be more interested in finding a 3rd line winger, a reclamation project or someone willing to play on an intermediate length contract.

 

[Bench]

Hockey people don't have the opinion of this board on Blashill. In fact the opposite when you talk to people around the game be it NHL or USA Hockey Blash is viewed in a fairly positive light. He also has from most accounts a fantastic relationship with our future Captain.

I think it's undeniable Blashill does a lot of things well. Any performance needs to be framed around the awful rosters he's been given.

He also has some stubborn usage patterns you see from coaches *coughBabcockcough* that seem to defy modern metrics in favor of more traditional hockey wisdom.

 

[SirloinUB]

I'm not saying he's a problem. I'm saying you can either keep him for this meaningless home stretch and get no additional assets, or get a couple extra picks, lose another few games to improve draft stock, and easily find a replacement this summer for a similar cap hit.

Or you could lock up your second highest scoring player AND add an upgrade rather than just making a lateral move for a lottery ticket.

 

[Dotter]

You would LOVE that contract? Please explain this.

A healthy 50+ point getting winger that brings speed and puck skills to a scoring/skill depleted team traded for a late 2nd and a 3rd round that will more than likely never amount to anything in the NHL of any significance what-so-ever. Sure his goal scoring can be replaced on the UFA open market for probably 1 to 2 million more and could very well turn out to be the next Stephen Weiss debacle. But hey, whatever.

We got that late 2nd pick!!! whoo-hoo

 

[Ezekial]

It's funny, you guys are talking shit about getting #60 picks for a #121 overall. Tatar was a #60 too, our 2-4 drafting has been pretty damn good. Nyquist was a UFA, he didn't come to an agreement with Holland before the trade deadline and he was sent away for assets. That's the f***in breaks, he could still be a wing, too.

 

[Invictus12]

I hope so too. Hence why I wanted Nyquist gone. Free up money for EK and I wanted Stone but he's off the table. Panarin would be a solid addition too! I'm not worried about our prospects yet, but more kicks at the can helps the problem you're talking about. With more draft selections we can target skill players instead of worrying about making sure the prospects we do select have "character". I understand why people wanted Nyquist to stay, I get it. But really, a 29 year old 45 point winger isn't the be all end all of a team, imo.

Its not about them having character as much as them seeing payoff for working hard. Meaning, they can battle for net front presence or presence in the slot but without seeing it turning into results means frustration and often abandoment of those things. For that to work, you need guys who can make plays and ship the puck to them. Outside of Larkin, there's no one to do that. Two seconds, certainly is less of a certainty of that than Nyquist was. As the saying goes, a bird in hand is better than two in a bush. We literally just did the opposite of that.

 

[Invictus12]

You appear to be pessimistic at finding an equivalent or better replacement player, whether in free agency or otherwise. I think finding "another Nyquist" isn't very hard, and then you haven't lost any talent long term, while gaining extra picks. Perhaps we just agree to disagree, and we'll see what happens this summer.

No matter the spin, we traded away certainty for uncertainty. Holland took the risk and I respect it but I'd rather have kep Nyquist and targeted the free agency on top of that.

 

[Invictus12]

Veleno, at least, is supposed to be a good playmaker. The questions that held him back were his goal scoring, and how his playmaking/offensive skill will translate. It may not completely translate, but to say they don't have any playmakers, and potentially really good ones, is not true.

Outside of Larkin, we really don't. Veleno looks promosing and I hope he makes the impact in Detroit but that still remains to be seen. And as I said, I felt we needed more of what Nyquist brought, meaning, adding a Veleno type while also having Nyquist and Larkin would have been more preferable in my view. I don't think (this is all in theory ofcourse) a Rasmussen-Bertuzzi-Svechnikov (at their highest potential) makes for a good line because none of the are know for passing the puck much. This is what we have a lot of on the roster and in the system.

 

[lomekian]

Decent but unremarkable return for a guy who is a very decent second line winger. That said, it was a trade both inevitable and necessary. The fact he wasn't renewed suggests he didn't want to at a price DRW were willing to pay AND not receive trade assets. Come UFA, I'd be happy enough if he came back at anything around 5 x 5.5 ish. More than that, and we may as well see what else is out there. I suspect that unless he has a great time in SJ (and he might), we might see him again in July. Of course if he can bring EK with him, it'll be the best trade we've done in a decade or two!

I suppose ultimately, we're gambling that Zadina will be better than Nyquist in a year or two, and that we can replace his output at least partially via FA.

 

[obey86]

No. It is a choice between retaining a good NHL player or taking picks that, maybe, one day, might be as good if we're real lucky.

It is literally the mystery box situation from family guy.

Thats not really the full choice though. Because you can still spend whatever money would have went to Nyqvist on a good NHL player who is a free agent (or actually Nyqvist himself as he hasn't re-signed with San Jose yet) AND get the draft picks from trading him.