Speculation: 2019 Off-Season Thread - Part 6

[Rschmitz]

Take a look where these goals are coming from. Look at the release. He doesn't need a ton of time and space to cause havoc and manufacture some offense.

 

[DFC]

Take a look where these goals are coming from. Look at the release. He doesn't need a ton of time and space to cause havoc and manufacture some offense.

My first thought is: My God the Oilers face a lot of back-ups. Another thing to think about in the Kuch vs. McDavid debate that I hadn't considered.

I like his release, yeah, but I mean... shades of Brett Connolly. And yeah, Connolly went on to become a solid player, but it took a while. I can't help but wonder how his game can be so bad that he can't be an impact player with that release. In Connolly's case, it was like he didn't process the game, mentally, fast enough to react to situations. Not sure if that's the case here, but it's gotta be something.

 

[Rschmitz]

My first thought is: My God the Oilers face a lot of back-ups. Another thing to think about in the Kuch vs. McDavid debate that I hadn't considered.

I like his release, yeah, but I mean... shades of Brett Connolly. And yeah, Connolly went on to become a solid player, but it took a while. I can't help but wonder how his game can be so bad that he can't be an impact player with that release. In Connolly's case, it was like he didn't process the game, mentally, fast enough to react to situations. Not sure if that's the case here, but it's gotta be something.

I'm surprised you think that. They both were big, fast guys. However, Connolly was a cerebral perimeter player, his smarts was one of the big positives to him when we drafted him. JP reminds me of a bigger, faster, more talented Richard Panik. JP has the makings of a very good power forward if he can find some consistency to his game.

 

[DFC]

I'm surprised you think that. They both were big, fast guys. However, Connolly was a cerebral perimeter player, JP reminds me of a bigger, faster, more talented Richard Panik. JP has the makings of a very good power forward if he can find some consistency to his game.

I'm just talking about his release, not general play style. Most of Connolly's goals with us were based on his quick release.

I'm not pretending to know a whole lot about JP, by any means. I just know it's not a good sign that he's struggled this much to secure a role on a team that bad, so I can only assume it would be that much harder, or at least take that much longer, for him to put it together here.

Not saying we sh0uldn't pursue it. Just saying he's risky, so our offer should send equal risks their way.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Martel's not a bad idea. They'd never go for it, but he would probably be a decent 3rd liner there, which is roughly what they're asking for. It's just, at least on HF, that means one of OUR 3rd liners, who'd likely be a top-sixer in Edmonton.

Because of position, but Killorn and Palat/Joseph/Gourde would 100% be on their first line. Position is why I'm not including Celery.

 

[Outl4w]

Because of position, but Killorn and Palat/Joseph/Gourde would 100% be on their first line. Position is why I'm not including Celery.

Lets be real no one wants Celery. Now that Italian stud is another answer. Put him with McDavid and he could easily rack up the assist as a winger.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Take a look where these goals are coming from. Look at the release. He doesn't need a ton of time and space to cause havoc and manufacture some offense.

Manufacture offense? I see a very opportunistic player, which isn't a bad thing, not someone driving the offense. I don't see the power forward you think he is, where is the Rick Nash swinging wide around the defender to drive the net? A lot of that is McDavid or someone else doing 90% of the work and he cleans up, which again isn't a bad thing. I just don't think he'll be worth the cost, didn't you say Raddysh? Who can do all those same things but is waiver exempt and developed by us. Is he even better than Joseph? He's more skilled for sure but Joseph fits our style better while being able to PK and better defensively. So I don't see a spot for him that makes sense for us or him.

 

[Rschmitz]

Manufacture offense? I see a very opportunistic player, which isn't a bad thing, not someone driving the offense. I don't see the power forward you think he is, where is the Rick Nash swinging wide around the defender to drive the net? A lot of that is McDavid or someone else doing 90% of the work and he cleans up, which again isn't a bad thing. I just don't think he'll be worth the cost, didn't you say Raddysh? Who can do all those same things but is waiver exempt and developed by us. Is he even better than Joseph? He's more skilled for sure but Joseph fits our style better while being able to PK and better defensively. So I don't see a spot for him that makes sense for us or him.

I don't think he drives the offense. I consider manufacturing offense, as being able to create scoring opportunities by creating space of disrupting the defense. That is something JP does very well.

 

[HoseEmDown]

I don't think he drives the offense. I consider manufacturing offense, as being able to create scoring opportunities by creating space of disrupting the defense. That is something JP does very well.

None of those goals had me saying "wow this kid is special". There was about 15 goals in that sequence, 3 had me saying that's some bad goaltending, 3 I said that's some bad defending, 3 I said that 97 fellow is damn good, 3 I said that's a nice shot with a quick release and accuracy and 3 I said that's a guy who reads the play well and got to the right area. I didn't see anything that we don't already have in some of our players or prospects. I just saw a typical NHL player who can score goals when set up by a better player, score with their NHL shot or by getting to the dirty areas. None of that screams we need to get this guy and I'm willing to pay a pretty price for it.

 

[Rschmitz]

None of those goals had me saying "wow this kid is special". There was about 15 goals in that sequence, 3 had me saying that's some bad goaltending, 3 I said that's some bad defending, 3 I said that 97 fellow is damn good, 3 I said that's a nice shot with a quick release and accuracy and 3 I said that's a guy who reads the play well and got to the right area. I didn't see anything that we don't already have in some of our players or prospects. I just saw a typical NHL player who can score goals when set up by a better player, score with their NHL shot or by getting to the dirty areas. None of that screams we need to get this guy and I'm willing to pay a pretty price for it.

Do you consider Raddysh a pretty price? If JP looked like a can't miss prospect, he wouldn't be available

 

[These Are The Days]

Do you consider Raddysh a pretty price? If JP looked like a can't miss prospect, he wouldn't be available

I absolutely do. We can still call him up and down as needed if he needs more development. JP consistently struggles at the NHL level and as soon as things go wrong for him that's basically gonna be it because he's already left the Oilers because he didn't want a lesser role with the team upon said struggles

 

[HoseEmDown]

Do you consider Raddysh a pretty price? If JP looked like a can't miss prospect, he wouldn't be available

Yes. They're the same age, similar sized and similar styled kids. Puljujarvi developed faster but Raddysh to me has caught up to him or is pretty close to the same as this point. Puljujarvi is still a bit more skilled and has the shooting to be potential more lethal in that catagory with Raddysh being the better playmaker. So it's like trading a potential 30-30 kid for a potential 20-40 one but the latter is still waiver exempt for two more seasons.

 

[Rschmitz]

I absolutely do. We can still call him up and down as needed if he needs more development. JP consistently struggles at the NHL level and as soon as things go wrong for him that's basically gonna be it because he's already left the Oilers because he didn't want a lesser role with the team upon said struggles

All this really says to me is that JP is riskier. Of course he is, that's why he's available. He also has an incredibly high ceiling due to his physical tool set and offensive skill set.

 

[Rschmitz]

Yes. They're the same age, similar sized and similar styled kids. Puljujarvi developed faster but Raddysh to me has caught up to him or is pretty close to the same as this point. Puljujarvi is still a bit more skilled and has the shooting to be potential more lethal in that catagory with Raddysh being the better playmaker. So it's like trading a potential 30-30 kid for a potential 20-40 one but the latter is still waiver exempt for two more seasons.

IDK. It's true that Puljujarvi basically has to earn a spot, and needs to do so as a top 9 guy out of the gate, but it's also true that he actually has the speed to keep up with our scoring liners. He's a potential top line elite winger, where as Raddysh is basically going to be a complimentary guy. We won't get the opportunity to draft a guy with latent physical ability and offensive prowess as long as we are contending, this is how we'll acquire them if we do.

 

[DFC]

All this really says to me is that JP is riskier. Of course he is, that's why he's available. He also has an incredibly high ceiling due to his physical tool set and offensive skill set.

Yeah, but that risk can't be discounted. He's very, very risky. Whereas Raddysh, at the very least, looks like he's gonna have an NHL career. To me, the higher floor is more valuable, especially when weighed against a prospect who's already asked out of an organization and refusing to play for them.

 

[HoseEmDown]

IDK. It's true that Puljujarvi basically has to earn a spot, and needs to do so as a top 9 guy out of the gate, but it's also true that he actually has the speed to keep up with our scoring liners. He's a potential top line elite winger, where as Raddysh is basically going to be a complimentary guy. We won't get the opportunity to draft a guy with latent physical ability and offensive prowess as long as we are contending, this is how we'll acquire them if we do.

I don't know how you can watch those videos packages of Puljujarvi and not see a complimentary guy as well? I don't see the potential top line winger you do. I'm not saying Raddysh can be that guy but he was the one driving his line in Syracuse. His last two years in junior after McDavid left he was the focal point of his teams offense and he delivered. I didn't see Puljujarvi in junior but he was never the line driver in his time in the NHL. To me Raddysh has the potential to be a complimentary guy in the top 6, like Puljujarvi can be, or he can be the key cog on a 3rd line while I don't think Puljujarvi can be.

 

[Rschmitz]

I don't know how you can watch those videos packages of Puljujarvi and not see a complimentary guy as well? I don't see the potential top line winger you do. I'm not saying Raddysh can be that guy but he was the one driving his line in Syracuse. His last two years in junior after McDavid left he was the focal point of his teams offense and he delivered. I didn't see Puljujarvi in junior but he was never the line driver in his time in the NHL. To me Raddysh has the potential to be a complimentary guy in the top 6, like Puljujarvi can be, or he can be the key cog on a 3rd line while I don't think Puljujarvi can be.

Well here are his junior highlights. Imagine going from this



...to playing with Milan freaking Lucic, his most frequent linemate over the last 3 years, and getting a dozen minutes a game.

 

[These Are The Days]

All this really says to me is that JP is riskier. Of course he is, that's why he's available. He also has an incredibly high ceiling due to his physical tool set and offensive skill set.

The amount of risk I'm willing to take is around Verhaeghe and a 3rd if he looks great in Finland because it's behind the SEL,KHL, NHL and AHL and probably the 5th best league in the world and there is no guarantee his success will even translate.

Honestly if we make this move I want him in Finland for 2 full years. Get through the cap crunch, develop the player and everyone is ready for a once promising prospect to make his Lightning debut with the idea in mind that he's gonna earn his spot

 

[Master P]

If the price is right I don't mind taking a shot at him, but I don't see it happening tbh.

 

[Todd1a]

Well here are his junior highlights. Imagine going from this



...to playing with Milan freaking Lucic, his most frequent linemate over the last 3 years, and getting a dozen minutes a game.

Problem is would he be pissed if we put him in the ahl? Can we does he need waivers?

 

[Rschmitz]

Problem is would he be pissed if we put him in the ahl? Can we does he need waivers?

He would need waivers

 

[ccman68]

Puljujärvi has nice tools but it doesn't really matter when you don't have a brain. The difference between his and Raddysh's hockey IQ is massive. Verhaeghe we could maybe afford to lose but definitely not Raddysh.

 

[Todd1a]

He would need waivers

Damn so he has to be on the nhl roster right away

 

[HoseEmDown]

Well here are his junior highlights. Imagine going from this



...to playing with Milan freaking Lucic, his most frequent linemate over the last 3 years, and getting a dozen minutes a game.

How does playing with Lucic make all your talent disappear? Because he wasn't doing any of those things in the NHL. I think it was a man amongst boys in Finland and when he got to NA he no longer has the size and speed advantage. His skills weren't as good as advertised when he didn't have the time or space he did as a youth. He still has skills and talent I just don't think the gap between him and some of our prospects is as big as it was a few years ago.

 

[Rschmitz]

How does playing with Lucic make all your talent disappear? Because he wasn't doing any of those things in the NHL. I think it was a man amongst boys in Finland and when he got to NA he no longer has the size and speed advantage. His skills weren't as good as advertised when he didn't have the time or space he did as a youth. He still has skills and talent I just don't think the gap between him and some of our prospects is as big as it was a few years ago.

Come on. Were you asking the same question when Drouin played with Boyle and Morrow? Or of Gourde when he was on the third line playing an energy role? Or of St.Louis before he latched onto top 6 minutes?

We've already established that Puljujarvi needs competent talent around him and minutes to be effective. How do you assess and develop any prospect giving them 12 minutes of ice time a night with grinders?