GDT: 2019 NHL Entry Draft in Vancouver, BC 5:00 PDT/8:00 EST NBSCN

[Maximus]

What sort contract do you give Kreider? Return for Kreider now will be bigger than at the deadline. Keeping him until the deadline makes no sense. He is either part of the core (extend him) or not (trade him).

Here's what I think Darko and I kind of answered it on the other post. I may be on an island but I don't think 7 for 7 is unreasonable...do you? I'd even go 7.5 for 7. I think he's the kind of player that won't just deteriorate as he hits his mid 30's. He's always been in great great shape...he's not injury prone and so long as this continues, his speed and physicality is invaluable.

With the first round done for this year, in some multi player transaction, unless I could get a first round pick for 2020 and more, I'd try my best to sign him to a contract I indicated above if I were Gorton. There is something to be said to keeping life long Rangers like Kreider if you can. He's very valuable and provides intangible most of the player we have don't have.

I might disagree a bit with you in that if we can't extend him and his contract demands don't jive with Gorton's, I think we can easily get a 2020 first rounder at the deadline as well. Not sure why you think the return for him now would be any different than at the deadline when some playoff bound team might think adding a Kreider could be the difference in a first round playoff exit or a long playoff run.

One caveat tho is obviously if we end up signing Panarin, than obviously Kreider has to go. As much as I love and want Panarin, I'm not feeling as confident as I was even a few weeks ago that we will end up getting him.

 

[Barnaby]

Everyone talks about what trade assets Kreider can return and the value that will bring back to the organization, but what about the value he could bring this season in helping to teach Kakko and Kravtsov? Allowing them to fly under the radar and get favorable match ups, where they wont need to be "the guy" right away in their rookie years.

I am not saying we shouldnt trade him, I think he should be at the very least traded for assets at the trade deadline, but I do think there is a question if he is more valuable sticking around for a few months while some of the young kids get their feet wet and learn how to use their bodies to protect themselves and the puck. If the right deal comes across now, or after free agency starts then sure, trade him

there other types of value he brings besides assets via trade that should also be weighed

I’d rather trade him now IF the value is there. If not I’d hold him. The issue with just holding him until the deadline is you are taking on risk. What if he gets a concussion, hurts his back, or rips a knee. You walk away with nothing. Also, what if you’re a bubble team. Do you sell him off then and send that message to the team, hold and lose him, or maybe give him the big money on a bad contract. If he’s dealt now then you can use cap money elsewhere if you choose and avoid all that BS. Who wants constant questions or a mountain of Brooks articles like with Hayes last year

 

[aufheben]

You honestly don’t know half the story with him.

I am not a fan.

All I know is MSL took absurd heat for all that bullshit in 2014, despite being one of the most respected players in the league up to that point. He built up an arrogant team in Tampa (that still hasn’t won anything,) and dipped (which, given their unutterable implosion this spring, gives me a suspicious vibe however illogical that may be.) Today, he walks up in his nice cut suit to the podium, and very casually goes completely off the board, despite now running a team that is desperate for talent.

On here, (and everywhere else, I imagine,) he’s absolutely worshipped, the brilliant architect, a leader of men. I can’t shake the feeling that there’s some greasy shit there under the rug there. He’s the Tom Cruise of the hockey world. I’m not going to pry...any unsavory behavior or activity would not surprise me at all.

 

[Maximus]

I’d rather trade him now IF the value is there. If not I’d hold him. The issue with just holding him until the deadline is you are taking on risk. What if he gets a concussion, hurts his back, or rips a knee. You walk away with nothing. Also, what if you’re a bubble team. Do you sell him off then and send that message to the team, hold and lose him, or maybe give him the big money on a bad contract. If he’s dealt now then you can use cap money elsewhere if you choose and avoid all that BS. Who wants constant questions or a mountain of Brooks articles like with Hayes last year

Let me ask you this. Do you agree that if we dealt him now if the value is there like you subscribe too, that we have to get no less than a 1st round pick in 2020 and probably more...yes? I mean what else of value for THIS year could we get for Kreider that would be worth trading him for...right?

Obviously injuries are a risk with all players but for arguments sake, we can agree that Kreider hasn't been an injury prone player as other than that fluke of a blood clot he got which thank the good lord he recovered from, I don't recall him missing many games his entire Ranger career...yes?

Now this is obviously predicated on us NOT getting Panarin. So if we can agree Kreider makes it to the deadline healthy, he's doing his typical 50-60 point thing on pace for 30 goals or so and he's agreeable to a reasonable contract in the 7-7.5 for 7 range why would we even want to deal him?

Like I said on a few other posts, I don't see any reason unless he's unreasonable with his contract demands or if Panarin signs with us that there is even a thought of dealing Kreider as he'd be a perfect compliment for the skill sets of the Kakko's, Kratsov's of the world....agreed?

 

[Maximus]

All I know is MSL took absurd heat for all that bull**** in 2014, despite being one of the most respected players in the league up to that point. He built up an arrogant team in Tampa (that still hasn’t won anything,) and dipped (which, given their unutterable implosion this spring, gives me a suspicious vibe however illogical that may be.) Today, he walks up in his nice cut suit to the podium, and very casually goes completely off the board, despite now running a team that is desperate for talent.

On here, (and everywhere else, I imagine,) he’s absolutely worshiped, the brilliant architect, a leader of men. I can’t shake the feeling that there’s some greasy **** there under the rug there. He’s the Tom Cruise of the hockey world. I’m not going to pry...any unsavory behavior or activity would not surprise me at all.

Without going back and reading thru hundreds of posts, I'm assuming your referring too Yzerman. What exactly do you suspect he's up too and is the reason for your anger at him and what was Edge referring too?

I agree with you that he f***ed up bigtime tonight with his Seider pick as any novice GM could have known he easily could have traded down, acquired more assets which Detroit desperately needs and still gotten his guy.

 

[Maximus]

Was at the draft party in NYC and just got back home so my thoughts on Round 1 are coming in very late....

For starters, what a messy draft party. So many aspects were sloppy. From John Gianone and crew chatting during the draft to a really awkward interview with Adam Fox live in front of everyone. It was an abomination!! The worst part about it was MSG showing the 1st ten picks then completely ending the party. Had to go to 218 W 35th St just to finish watching the draft. Putrid managing on their part!! Plus side, though, they had some prospects there to sign stuff and take pics (aforementioned Fox, Barron, Keane, Rykov and Shesterkin). Ended up snagging a duel Russian signed shirt at the end. FYI, they both speak pretty good English!!

As for the draft, I wasn't expecting a lot of picks that some of these teams made. Three defensemen going in the top 10, some guys who weren't even taken in the 1st round who deserved to have been. WTF??? So far, the best classes are Colorado and LA. Both came away with two stud prospects a piece. Buffalo with an underrated 1st round, as well. LOLOLOL Islanders!!

Stoked the Rangers didn't **** it up. They got their man and still have yet to trade anyone!!

Plenty can still be had at. Can't believe Lavoie, Kaliyev, Brink and Matt Robertson are still on the board!! This will be a hectic 2nd day!! I'll be up to keep you all updated!!

Edit:

@Oscar Lindberg @Machinehead @Raspewtin

Mad dope meeting you guys tonight!! 'Till next time!!

Good stuff Joey Bones. Suprised they would have kicked y'all out after just 10 picks...not kool at all as I would have been very pissed.

I saw as well from a video or two that RJ Barrett and that other Knicks draft pick was there which was pretty kool as they seemed to be well received. I think this Barrett guy is going to be a nice addition to the Knicks.

The videos I've seen on YouTube indicated the place was rocking and rolling when the Kakko picked was made which was really kool to see. Also kool that you met up with a few Ranger brothers as well.

Curious about two things:

What was the reaction at MSG when the Hughes pick was made? Peeps ecstatic that we were in fact getting Kakko or was their booing cause it was the Debbies who were getting Hughes?

What was the reaction at MSG when the Seider pick by Yzerman at 6 overall was made? To me, that was THE only curve ball that was thrown last night. I know myself, most everyone here on the board and even Seider himself were in shock as I know for myself I kept saying "wow...wow...wow...wow..wow"...lol

Were there enough peeps at the Garden who knew their hockey who also knew what a reach that pick was or was it a crowd who was just there because of the Kakko hype and didn't even know who Morris Seider was?....lol

 

[Barnaby]

Let me ask you this. Do you agree that if we dealt him now if the value is there like you subscribe too, that we have to get no less than a 1st round pick in 2020 and probably more...yes? I mean what else of value for THIS year could we get for Kreider that would be worth trading him for...right?

Obviously injuries are a risk with all players but for arguments sake, we can agree that Kreider hasn't been an injury prone player as other than that fluke of a blood clot he got which thank the good lord he recovered from, I don't recall him missing many games his entire Ranger career...yes?

Now this is obviously predicated on us NOT getting Panarin. So if we can agree Kreider makes it to the deadline healthy, he's doing his typical 50-60 point thing on pace for 30 goals or so and he's agreeable to a reasonable contract in the 7-7.5 for 7 range why would we even want to deal him?

Like I said on a few other posts, I don't see any reason unless he's unreasonable with his contract demands or if Panarin signs with us that there is even a thought of dealing Kreider as he'd be a perfect compliment for the skill sets of the Kakko's, Kratsov's of the world....agreed?

I’d expect something along the lines of what Hayes got. If I could get a 2020 first from a bubble team and a good young roster player tomorrow then I’d take it. I’d even retain if more value comes back I.e better player or another pick. I think it might be more likely prior to the season that we get a young guy that they see as a potential core piece - someone mentioned a guy like Kaut. I don’t know enough about him to know if I like that return or not.

I believe we differ because I don’t see 7+million for 7 years to be a reasonable deal for Kreider. I really don’t. He’s a nice piece for 3 or maybe 4 years, but I think the latter half of that contract could potentially be brutal. I don’t think this team is likely to be a serious contender in his first few years so why am I taking on the bad back end rather than potentially find a future core piece? Could he be the next Justin Williams? Sure. Do I think it’s more likely than not? No I don’t. Very few guys perform close to their peak into their mid 30’s nowadays.

You could point to Kreider and say that he’s in great shape so he should age well to 36 (contract would start at 29). You might be right. I look at him and say that he’s only anywheres near as effective as he is because of his superior speed and strength. Once he ages and the difference between he and others is a lot closer, then I think he struggles. My reasoning is that he’s not a high IQ player (never been able to pk despite his speed for example), and I don’t see great hands. I see a guy whose contracts 2nd half could look a lot like 15-18 goals and 35-40 points. That’s an immovable contract. We will want to resign our own guys and bring in some help during those 7 years. I don’t want to struggle with Kakko like the Leafs are struggling with Marner.

 

[Ola]

Extremely deserving!!!

 

[aufheben]

Without going back and reading thru hundreds of posts, I'm assuming your referring too Yzerman. What exactly do you suspect he's up too and is the reason for your anger at him and what was Edge referring too?

I agree with you that he ****ed up bigtime tonight with his Seider pick as any novice GM could have known he easily could have traded down, acquired more assets which Detroit desperately needs and still gotten his guy.

I don’t really suspect him of anything specific. When he walked up and made that pick, my first thought was “You know what, this guy seems like a real asshole.” Could be the nicest guy in the world for all I know, but it did remind me of the other things I mentioned which have always seemed vaguely fishy to me.

 

[Nickmo82]

So, those in the know - Who f***ed up in the 1st round and who did a fantastic job?

 

[Ola]

1. After last years draft I was pretty cocky in relation to other fan rankings, because the players I was certain would rise did so and players I was low on went lower and so forth.

This year that wasn’t the case. Like a team could make a bad pick or have preferences or someone interviewed really bad or what not — but you still can feel an underlying trend and my opinions wasn’t really shared this time around... From my POV Rees vs Pelletier shouldn’t be on the planet. The high potential CHL players got the nod much earlier than what I would have preferred, and so forth.

Some humble pie shall be served and I will try to bring it down a notch.

2. A few thoughts, no matter what, there are some really good players available after the 1st.

From the early 20s (at least from Holmstrom) you get players that I would bet my right arm on that are 50 or later on some teams lists, and there will be a bunch of guys available post 31 that are well into 1st round territory on many teams lists.

I wouldn’t rule out some trade action today. Think many teams — Gorts included — could see a great value in getting to make ‘their pick’.

3. So no trades happened? Let’s bring out the pitch forks (sp/choice of words)!!!

Seriously, no trades happen, besides the Philly trade. NONE. That speaks a heck of a lot more about the NHL GMs than it does of Gorton’s willingness to make a move and the correctness of the reports we got. NHL GMs have no incentive to make trades and be bold. If they do nothing their job is safe, if they do anything they can get crucified for it since it’s a mine field out there. Every other team was rumored to want to do something, only two teams did anything. And nothing significant happened.

I have no reason whatsoever to question the correctness of any report — and everything was already backed up by earlier reports by insiders like Brooks, Dreger, Friedman and McKenzie — and I am 100% sure that Gorts was pushing for it hard. Don’t kill the messengers.

 

[eco's bones]

The most off the board and worst pick of the first round was the Islanders and Simon Holmstrom at 23.

Best fall in your lap pick was#4--Bowen Byram to the Kings. IMO Chicago takes Dach a bit too early and Detroit takes Seider way too early.

In the only trade of the night I don't understand why Arizona felt the need to move their 14 and 45 to the Flyers to grab Soderstrom at 11. Soderstrom very likely would have been available to them at 14. To me that was a deal that didn't need to be made.

By 17 the best 17 players were gone IMO which led to the fiasco at 18 with a Dallas owner looking like a clow by f***ing up Thomas Harley's name.

Could turn out very well but Ottawa reaches for Thomson at 19.

I did not like Pittsburgh's 21 pick of Poulin--he should have been a very late 1st or a second. They would have been better taking Lavoie.

I did not like Tampa's 27 pick of Foote--IMO he's a mid to late 2nd. The same with Anaheim's Brayden Tracey at 29.

Told my Bruins friends days ago that their team was going to draft Beecher who is from my hometown at 30. Just seemed a perfect fit to me.

Forwards left--Bobby Brink, Pavel Dorofeyev, Raphael Lavoie, Nils Hoglander, Arthur Kaliyev, Samuel Fagemo, Patrik Puistola, Brett Leason, Robert Mastrosimone, Ilya Nikolayev, Ryder Donovan, Albin Grewe, Egor Afansayev, Jonathan Rees.

Defensemen--Matthew Robertson, Kaedan Korczak, Vladislav Kolyachonok, Mikko Kokkonen, Artemi Knyazev.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Really glad we didn't trade Buch.

Annoyed we didn't trade Kreider but there's still time.

Yzerman is a piece of shit.

 

[NYRangers0723]

Really glad we didn't trade Buch.

Annoyed we didn't trade Kreider but there's still time.

Yzerman is a piece of ****.

Rangers did the right thing. Glad we just didnt just trade him unless we were getting back a huge return

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Rangers did the right thing. Glad we just didnt just trade him unless we were getting back a huge return

We are not going to get a huge return for an expiring contract.

And we should not pay a guy big money who will be 29 when that contract starts. That is only emphasized by the fact that he remains incredibly inconsistent.

Frankly, I would have much rather given Zucc 4-5 years at 5-6 mil. Then 7 years over 7 to Kreider.

 

[NYRangers0723]

In km

We are not going to get a huge return for an expiring contract.

And we should not pay a guy big money who will be 29 when that contract starts. That is only emphasized by the fact that he remains incredibly inconsistent.

Frankly, I would have much rather given Zucc 4-5 years at 5-6 mil. Then 7 years over 7 to Kreider.

Obviously you are not a fan of his which is fine but he brings a lot of things that are not easily replaceable. His net presence alone whether its delections or screens is big.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

In km
Obviously you are not a fan of his which is fine but he brings a lot of things that are not easily replaceable. His net presence alone whether its delections or screens is big.

I am a fan of his. Just as I was a fan of Hayes, Zucc, McDonagh, etc. Liking a player and what they bring, has nothing to do with the logic behind whether we should retain or move on from them.

I like Kreider a lot. I think he has a lot of good assets to his game. But this is a business and I try to never let my personal feelings get in the way of what is best for the team. I realize a lot of people are attached to Kreider and that is only exacerbated by the fact that he is one of only 3 players to have made those runs to the ECF back in the early days of our success. Thus, the nostalgia factor obviously comes into play for a lot of fans.

But I am not interested in ponying up big bucks for his consistent inconsistency especially when the majority of the contract will be played out on the wrong side of 30.

The only player in my lifetime I have ever not wanted to move on from strictly for personal reasons is Lundqvist.

 

[NYRangers0723]

I am a fan of his. Just as I was a fan of Hayes, Zucc, McDonagh, etc. Liking a player and what they bring, has nothing to do with the logic behind whether we should retain or move on from them.

I like Kreider a lot. I think he has a lot of good assets to his game. But this is a business and I try to never let my personal feelings get in the way of what is best for the team. I realize a lot of people are attached to Kreider and that is only exacerbated by the fact that he is one of only 3 players to have made those runs to the ECF back in the early days of our success. Thus, the nostalgia factor obviously comes into play for a lot of fans.

But I am not interested in ponying up big bucks for his consistent inconsistency especially when the majority of the contract will be played out on the wrong side of 30.

The only player in my lifetime I have ever not wanted to move on from strictly for personal reasons is Lundqvist.

There is no "nostalgia factor".

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

There is no "nostalgia factor".

I'm sure for a lot of the fan base, there is. Maybe not for you. But in general, we tend to overvalue our own guys.

Would we, as fans, be wanting to go all in on Kreider if he were available via FA? I know I wouldn't.

 

[NYRangers0723]

I'm sure for a lot of the fan base, there is. Maybe not for you. But in general, we tend to overvalue our own guys.

Would we, as fans, be wanting to go all in on Kreider if he were available via FA? I know I wouldn't.

dont agree

 

[Ghost of jas]

Okay, there's still on lot of talent on the board. I really want Dorfeyev. I would definitely be interested in trading up for Brink. And Shane Pinto looks intriguing. Puistola, Hoglander, Afanasayev, Leason and Fagemo would also be ggod targets.

 

[Blue Blooded]

Trade up to get at least one of Brink/Kaliyev and make sure to get at least one of Doro/Fagemo.

 

[SnowFort]

After sleeping on it, I really, really, really want Brink. Like take the two seconds, he’s a first round talent.

 

[Blue Blooded]

After sleeping on it, I really, really, really want Brink. Like take the two seconds, he’s a first round talent.

I wouldn't have considered it a bad pick if someone reached for either of Brink/Kaliyev in the top 10 and they are still on the board in day 2. We need to move up to the very top of the second here, prefereably twice.

 

[Crease]

Kaliyev and Brink are amazing values right now, but Trouba and Fox were absolutely worth 20 and 37. Interested to see if the Rangers try to move up from 49.