Rumor: 2019-2020 Trade Rumours and Free Agent Discussion Version 8 | we're on a break Ed.

[Northern Avs Fan]

I remember the days of this board poking fun at Edmonton fans saying Petry was better than EJ... they were right, and quadrupedally so now.

Much like Bear/Makar

 

[Richard88]

I used the contract predictor tool with some rounding just to see what kind of salaries we should be expecting, THIS IS BY NO MEANS A ROSTER PREDICTION!

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If I remember right players earning $925k or less need to get a 5% raise on their QO. So O'Connor will get 5% above his current $925k salary on his next contract, rather than the $750k in that roster. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though.

 

[henchman21]

If I remember right players earning $925k or less need to get a 5% raise on their QO. So O'Connor will get 5% above his current $925k salary on his next contract, rather than the $750k in that roster. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though.

LOC would need a raise, but not from 925, but from 832.5.

 

[Richard88]

LOC would need a raise, but not from 925, but from 832.5.

Good point, thanks for clarifying. I overlooked that he had bonuses in his current deal.

 

[dahrougem2]

I remember the days of this board poking fun at Edmonton fans saying Petry was better than EJ... they were right, and quadrupedally so now.

Let's be fair here. Up until 2017-2018, Erik Johnson was the better defensemen.

Petry's simply aged a lot better and oddly enough seemed to have gotten better with his aging whereas Johnson's taken the more natural course of regressing.

That said, Jeff Petry is an absolute disaster when given a top pairing role any time Shea Weber is out with an injury.

 

[AvsCOL]

Uh, I could definitely see Graves getting a contract like that. In fact, if they keep it below $4 million I'll be relieved. Dude was on pace to put up over 10 goals, over 20 assists, and play major minutes for a Stanley Cup contending team. He's the de facto #3 defenseman playing in a #2 role and is used in nearly all situations. And say whatever you want about it, his agent is going to bring up his plus/minus numbers. $4 million would not be viewed as overpayment. Even on a short term deal you're not getting a huge discount.

I think it’d be a silly move to sign him long term with such a short resume. He was great this year, but you don’t commit that much until he proves it. They still have RFA control and I’d be comfortable doing 1-2 years at $2.5-3.0mil, bridge type.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I think it’d be a silly move to sign him long term with such a short resume. He was great this year, but you don’t commit that much until he proves it. They still have RFA control and I’d be comfortable doing 1-2 years at $2.5-3.0mil, bridge type.

I don’t know what Graves will get, but I’m guessing it’ll be around $3.5M.

He would get more on the open market. Look at what Myers got last off-season at 29 years old. Gravy had a real nice season and is 25-years old. I bet he’d be up around $5M as a UFA.

 

[Balthazar]

I don’t know what Graves will get, but I’m guessing it’ll be around $3.5M.

He would get more on the open market. Look at what Myers got last off-season at 29 years old. Gravy had a real nice season and is 25-years old. I bet he’d be up around $5M as a UFA.

Apples and oranges though. Myers had been in the NHL for 11 years while Graves has been there for one single year (at age 25). The risk factor is quite different. For all we know Graves could be a one year wonder who'll spend the rest of his career in the AHL. He sure wouldn't be the first.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Apples and oranges though. Myers had been in the NHL for 11 years while Graves has been there for one single year (at age 25). The risk factor is quite different. For all we know Graves could be a one year wonder who'll spend the rest of his career in the AHL. He sure wouldn't be the first.

It goes both ways. Graves had a better year going into his contract than Myers did. Myers had more previous success, but also a lot of not so good play too.

I’m not saying Graves is going to replicate his performance, but he would get a decent pay day as a UFA.

I really don’t think Graves is going back to the AHL anytime soon. Even if he regresses I still think he’s a bottom pair defender.

 

[Foppa2118]

My dream was to get at least high 2nd for Zadarov and draft Ryan O'Rourke, but I'm starting to think he might be better trade bait for a team looking for cap relief. Toronto will have some holes to fill back there so they could be a prime target.

Carrying on the Avalanche tradition of Irish O's.

Ryan O'Reilly
Ryan O'Byrne
Shane O'Brien
Wes O'Neill
Logan O'Connor

Ryan O'Rourke?

 

[Hasbro]

It goes both ways. Graves had a better year going into his contract than Myers did. Myers had more previous success, but also a lot of not so good play too.

Myers is also 6'8". There are enough idiot GMs thinking they can turn him into Chara.

 

[McMetal]

I like Graves more than most, but a bridge is perfectly fair. 2-3 years tops, I don't see the need to do more.

Could he get more in UFA? Sure, but he isn't a UFA, so that's kind of irrelevant. The fact that some desperate GM might go full Jeff Finger for Graves should have no bearing on the negotiations.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I like Graves more than most, but a bridge is perfectly fair. 2-3 years tops, I don't see the need to do more.

Could he get more in UFA? Sure, but he isn't a UFA, so that's kind of irrelevant. The fact that some desperate GM might go full Jeff Finger for Graves should have no bearing on the negotiations.

I tend to agree that he’s not going to get a lot of term.

Do you think Graves has a good chance of being Jeff Finger? I don’t remember Finger to vividly, but I feel like Graves is much better defensively.

 

[Hasbro]

I like Graves more than most, but a bridge is perfectly fair. 2-3 years tops, I don't see the need to do more.

Could he get more in UFA? Sure, but he isn't a UFA, so that's kind of irrelevant. The fact that some desperate GM might go full Jeff Finger for Graves should have no bearing on the negotiations.

Unless they want to offer sheet him, which please do!

 

[McMetal]

I tend to agree that he’s not going to get a lot of term.

Do you think Graves has a good chance of being Jeff Finger? I don’t remember Finger to vividly, but I feel like Graves is much better defensively.

Oh no, I'm not comparing styles or anything. Just saying that if he was on the open market, the lack of quality top 4 D available would make some GMs offer a lot more money and term than he's probably worth. I think Graves is a good #4 when all is said and done, but somebody might pay him like a #2 if a bidding war came to pass.

 

[dahrougem2]

No team out there is stupid enough to offer sheet Ryan Graves. And there are some stupid people running NHL teams.

 

[Balthazar]

I really don’t think Graves is going back to the AHL anytime soon. Even if he regresses I still think he’s a bottom pair defender.

The danger here is the reason he had success in the NHL is because of his risk taking and I don't think it would translate all that well in a bottom pairing role.

IMO if Graves wants a long career in the NHL he needs to work on his defense to complete Makar's game. They have good chemistry together and his only goal going forward should be to stay Makar's partner and become what Marc Methot was to Karlsson in Ottawa.

The other option is to become Nick Holden 2.0.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

The danger here is the reason he had success in the NHL is because of his risk taking and I don't think it would translate all that well in a bottom pairing role.

IMO if Graves wants a long career in the NHL he needs to work on his defense to complete Makar's game. They have good chemistry together and his only goal going forward should be to stay Makar's partner and become what Marc Methot was to Karlsson in Ottawa.

The other option is to become Nick Holden 2.0.

No doubt Graves value moving forward needs to continue to be in the defensive zone. Graves had good offensive numbers this year, but I don’t think he has any offensive upside.

Makar doesn’t need someone to bail him out in his own zone. If Graves is going to keep the spot on that pairing he’ll have to beat out Byram and Girard moving forward.

 

[McMetal]

The danger here is the reason he had success in the NHL is because of his risk taking and I don't think it would translate all that well in a bottom pairing role.

IMO if Graves wants a long career in the NHL he needs to work on his defense to complete Makar's game. They have good chemistry together and his only goal going forward should be to stay Makar's partner and become what Marc Methot was to Karlsson in Ottawa.

The other option is to become Nick Holden 2.0.

Nick Holden has had a pretty good career, though, in the end. Especially as an undrafted player.

As for his risk taking, you have to admit, he does have a pretty good eye for when risks will pay off. Even the best OFDs get burned on a chance every once in a while, but the good ones know when the percentages are in their favor. As long as he knows his limits, he can do enough to keep him in the league for a while.

 

[dahrougem2]

Nick Holden has had a pretty good career, though, in the end. Especially as an undrafted player.

As for his risk taking, you have to admit, he does have a pretty good eye for when risks will pay off. Even the best OFDs get burned on a chance every once in a while, but the good ones know when the percentages are in their favor. As long as he knows his limits, he can do enough to keep him in the league for a while.

I don't think he knows his limits.

What epitomizes Ryan Graves, to me, is the game we played in Montreal when Landeskog returned from an injury. Makar was rushing up the ice with the puck and takes the puck hard to the net, and who is it joining the rush with him that crashes the net and scores? Ryan Graves.

Yes, he scored. But the point is he didn't have the awareness to realize it was his own defensive partner going hard to the net and should maybe hang back. He had his mind made up that he was joining that rush regardless.

It's hard to call scoring a goal an error in judgement, but it's those little errors in judgement that will cost him moving forward in my opinion. Maybe he proves me - and others - wrong, but I don't have high hopes if he continues to play that high risk.

 

[McMetal]

I don't think he knows his limits.

What epitomizes Ryan Graves, to me, is the game we played in Montreal when Landeskog returned from an injury. Makar was rushing up the ice with the puck and takes the puck hard to the net, and who is it joining the rush with him that crashes the net and scores? Ryan Graves.

Yes, he scored. But the point is he didn't have the awareness to realize it was his own defensive partner going hard to the net and should maybe hang back. He had his mind made up that he was joining that rush regardless.

It's hard to call scoring a goal an error in judgement, but it's those little errors in judgement that will cost him moving forward in my opinion. Maybe he proves me - and others - wrong, but I don't have high hopes if he continues to play that high risk.

You have a perfectly legitimate point, but also, he DID score the goal. Maybe the dice just rolled in his favor a lot this season, but I think it's worth entertaining the possibility that there was more to it than luck, too.

 

[Richard88]

No team out there is stupid enough to offer sheet Ryan Graves. And there are some stupid people running NHL teams.

If we are looking to bridge Graves with a 2-3 year deal at $2.5m-3m it might be appealing to another team to try to OS him at $4.227m x 4-5 years and only give up a 2nd as compensation. That's over double the guaranteed dollars he would get on a bridge so the temptation might be there for Graves. We'd likely match it and then trade him in 2021, but it would be a risk because we could be stuck with a $4m+ contract for a few years that doesn't look so good if he regresses.

 

[AvsCOL]

If we are looking to bridge Graves with a 2-3 year deal at $2.5m-3m it might be appealing to another team to try to OS him at $4.227m x 4-5 years and only give up a 2nd as compensation. That's over double the guaranteed dollars he would get on a bridge so the temptation might be there for Graves. We'd likely match it and then trade him in 2021, but it would be a risk because we could be stuck with a $4m+ contract for a few years that doesn't look so good if he regresses.

You could say that about any RFA, but Graves would have to agree to the contract as well.

I think the likely contract ends up being 2 years x $3mil, which is more than fair imo.

 

[Richard88]

You could say that about any RFA, but Graves would have to agree to the contract as well.

I think the likely contract ends up being 2 years x $3mil, which is more than fair imo.

I didn't say that I think it's likely that he gets offersheeted, I just said that it might be something that's appealing to some team to consider.

Graves probably prefers to stay in Colorado, but if our offer is $3m x 2 years ($6m total) and he another team offers $4.2m x 5 years ($21m) then it would likely be tough to say no to that extra guaranteed $15m. Especially for a player hardly a year out from riding AHL buses for a living.

 

[henchman21]

Let's be fair here. Up until 2017-2018, Erik Johnson was the better defensemen.

Petry's simply aged a lot better and oddly enough seemed to have gotten better with his aging whereas Johnson's taken the more natural course of regressing.

That said, Jeff Petry is an absolute disaster when given a top pairing role any time Shea Weber is out with an injury.

EJ was clearly better for 2-3 seasons... but I think people forget how bad EJ was prior to Roy.