Rumor: 2019-2020 Trade Rumours and Free Agent Discussion Version 8 | we're on a break Ed.

[dahrougem2]

I don't recall him being a disaster per se, he just happened to be a good player on an uproariously bad team year in and year out. I even recall thinking the Habs got away with highway robbery when the Oilers got so little for him in return. Petry has never been anything flashy, but he's always been pretty good.

He was on a disastrous team and asked to do too much. I'm not saying Petry is great, but since he's been established he's been a solid 3/4 and turned into a great 3. EJ was a 3/4 prior to Roy, had a couple good seasons where it looked like he was finally turning it around, then has regressed into being a fringe 4 now. EJ had a higher peak but has aged about as well as week old potato salad.

I think we'll agree to disagree on Petry. No doubt about it he's better than EJ now, and has been for a couple of years but they're both downright disasters to have as your top pairing defensemen.

The difference to me is that EJ has been (was?) a good defensemen for a lot longer than Jeff Petry's been a good defensemen.

Oilers fans here in Edmonton were actually happy he was traded when they moved on from him. Looking back now, it was an awful trade. But make no mistake about it, the man did not have many fans here in Edmonton and it's because he was incredibly soft and inconsistent defensively while putting up hardly any points.

 

[henchman21]

Agree with everything else you've said, but I really don't see Sergachev signing for that little.

Then he will have to hold out. Tampa doesn’t have an issue with that... see Kuch and Point

 

[Pokecheque]

I think we'll agree to disagree on Petry. No doubt about it he's better than EJ now, and has been for a couple of years but they're both downright disasters to have as your top pairing defensemen.

The difference to me is that EJ has been (was?) a good defensemen for a lot longer than Jeff Petry's been a good defensemen.

Oilers fans here in Edmonton were actually happy he was traded when they moved on from him. Looking back now, it was an awful trade. But make no mistake about it, the man did not have many fans here in Edmonton and it's because he was incredibly soft and inconsistent defensively while putting up hardly any points.

Eh...fanbase perceptions can be quite skewed. I wouldn't take what they had to say about Petry too seriously. His final season in Edmonton saw the organization going out of their way to tank for McDavid.

Let's just put it this way. Three players from those horrible mid-2010s Oilers teams went on to have reasonably good success elsewhere: Justin Schultz, Jeff Petry, and Devan Dubnyk. Maybe the problem wasn't the players.

Petry would've been more successful had they done something, ANYTHING, to build an actual defensive corps around him. They didn't, and five years after they dealt him, they're still working on it.

 

[Hasbro]

If Tampa gets Cirelli and Sergachev to sign at a combined cap hit under 8 million that would be a huge W.

And the result of blackmail.

If all Tampa is offering Sergachev is $3.5M beat down his, door with and offer sheet for $5M!

 

[dahrougem2]

Eh...fanbase perceptions can be quite skewed. I wouldn't take what they had to say about Petry too seriously. His final season in Edmonton saw the organization going out of their way to tank for McDavid.

Let's just put it this way. Three players from those horrible mid-2010s Oilers teams went on to have reasonably good success elsewhere: Justin Schultz, Jeff Petry, and Devan Dubnyk. Maybe the problem wasn't the players.

Petry would've been more successful had they done something, ANYTHING, to build an actual defensive corps around him. They didn't, and five years after they dealt him, they're still working on it.

No, fan perception isn't everything but fans - most of the time - aren't stupid. There's a reason a majority of Oilers fans despised Jeff Petry.

Was he thrust into a role he shouldn't have been in? Absolutely. But the Jeff Petry in Edmonton was not the Jeff Petry of today in Montreal. Not even close.

With Justin Schultz, you could see that he'd prosper offensively but just couldn't be relied on to be a top pairing guy. With Devan Dubnyk, you could tell there was a starting goaltender there who just had to figure out his inconsistencies. But you could see what they could do during their Edmonton stints. Petry didn't show anything of this nature while an Oiler.

 

[Avs_19]

Does anyone subscribe to Evolving Hockey? Are they really projecting Nieto to get over $3M/yr? How?

 

[Pokecheque]

Was he thrust into a role he shouldn't have been in? Absolutely. But the Jeff Petry in Edmonton was not the Jeff Petry of today in Montreal. Not even close.

Actually, I think it was the same guy, it was the team and organization around him that changed. He went from a club going out of its way to suck to a club that, while not great, was in far better shape. More depth on defense, way better goaltending, and way, way, WAY better coaching.

Take a look at the 2013-14 Oilers roster. Focus on the defense. Again, I'm not even gonna look at the 2014-15 roster.

2013-14 Edmonton Oilers Roster and Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com

Petry was the only guy to play a complete season (two games shy of 82 that is). Justin Schultz came close with 74 games. Beyond that, you had 34-year-old Andrew Ference log 71 games. And past that it's a mish-mash of NHL washouts and journeymen, with 17 games of a then-rookie Oscar Klefbom sprinkled in for good measure. You could plunk an in-his-prime Chris Pronger into that lineup and he'd struggle too. Yeah, I bet Petry looked terrible as the de facto #1 on a team that had absolutely NO clue as to what to do. Ineptly built and saddled with a coach who was in over his head the moment he walked in the door.

I don't want to beleaguer the point. Petry is by no means elite. He's good and he's consistent, and he was stuck in a horrible situation in Edmonton. But he didn't just suddenly figure out how to play hockey, he was put in a much better situation that played to his strengths. This is the same organization that has somehow missed the playoffs three out of four years with Connor goddamn McDavid.

BTW, there were plenty of bloggers and analytics folks IIRC who sang Petry's praises back in the day. They knew he was being overworked and mishandled badly.

 

[Avsboy]

Does anyone subscribe to Evolving Hockey? Are they really projecting Nieto to get over $3M/yr? How?

UFA in a normally inflating free agent market. Gritty penalty killer with speed. Makes sense.

 

[Hasbro]

Does anyone subscribe to Evolving Hockey? Are they really projecting Nieto to get over $3M/yr? How?

Yep and stat whackers.

 

[Pokecheque]

Does anyone subscribe to Evolving Hockey? Are they really projecting Nieto to get over $3M/yr? How?

Yeah, I do.

Why is that so out of line though? He's proven to be a top-flight defensive forward with plenty of speed, who never, ever shies away from the dirty areas of the ice. He's ideally a 4th line guy but has proven he can play up and down the lineup. He's an ace PK guy to boot (though I think this particular thing can be overrated at times when talking about forwards). I've always said that if he just had a marginally better shot and hands, he'd be a legit star in this league. It's the only reason he doesn't score more, he does everything else right. I certainly hope he gets at least that much. This is his big chance to cash in.

 

[Avs_19]

UFA in a normally inflating free agent market. Gritty penalty killer with speed. Makes sense.

Yep and stat whackers.

Yeah, I do.

Why is that so out of line though? He's proven to be a top-flight defensive forward with plenty of speed, who never, ever shies away from the dirty areas of the ice. He's ideally a 4th line guy but has proven he can play up and down the lineup. He's an ace PK guy to boot (though I think this particular thing can be overrated at times when talking about forwards). I've always said that if he just had a marginally better shot and hands, he'd be a legit star in this league. It's the only reason he doesn't score more, he does everything else right. I certainly hope he gets at least that much. This is his big chance to cash in.

He’s a 25 point player, who I think is good but not great defensively. Even with the normal UFA overpayment I don’t think he’d get that much.

 

[McMetal]

The UFA tax for bottom sixers is a real thing. You want a proven one under 30? You have to overpay a bit. See Calvert, Matthew.

 

[5280]

He’s a 25 point player, who I think is good but not great defensively. Even with the normal UFA overpayment I don’t think he’d get that much.

Yeah, 3 million seems a bit much.

 

[Balthazar]

The UFA tax for bottom sixers is a real thing. You want a proven one under 30? You have to overpay a bit. See Calvert, Matthew.

You get a lot more intangible for your buck with Calvert than with Nieto though.

 

[Richard88]

Yeah, 3 million seems a bit much.

With a flat cap I think players like Nieto will be the ones to suffer most, at least in terms of percentage of their salary lost, as a lot of teams will look to save capspace by giving 4th line roles to their own prospects on ELC's.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Yeah I thought it was nuts when I saw that number for Nieto too and I love him.

With a flat cap I’m expecting to see a lot more ELC’s playing bottom six roles over the next three seasons which will make the market for proven bottom six talent a lot weaker than most years. Matt Nieto may have an argument for 3M in a growing cap world but if the choice is Nieto for 3M or a scaled down 20 year old version of Nieto for 800K you’re going to take option 2 which is going to bring the Matt Nieto’s of the world to around 1.5-2M in order to get work.

 

[Avs9296]

Yeah I thought it was nuts when I saw that number for Nieto too and I love him.

With a flat cap I’m expecting to see a lot more ELC’s playing bottom six roles over the next three seasons which will make the market for proven bottom six talent a lot weaker than most years. Matt Nieto may have an argument for 3M in a growing cap world but if the choice is Nieto for 3M or a scaled down 20 year old version of Nieto for 800K you’re going to take option 2 which is going to bring the Matt Nieto’s of the world to around 1.5-2M in order to get work.

Exactly.

We have a decent in house comparable. Would you rather have Nieto at 3m or a guy like Logan O'Connor at 900K?

I like Nieto but I'm picking option B.

 

[Pokecheque]

He’s a 25 point player, who I think is good but not great defensively. Even with the normal UFA overpayment I don’t think he’d get that much.

Yeah, 3 million seems a bit much.

I think the market will determine him to be a very valuable asset, and he will be paid as such. I hate saying something like this, but I'm glad it's likely not going to be the Avs paying him $$$. No offense whatsoever to the guy--he was a waiver wire pickup who ended up being one of the best value acquisitions in franchise history. But the Avs should be developing guys like this in-house and keep them on relatively cheap deals.

Really though, practically every team has a grossly overpaid 3rd/4th line forward.

The UFA tax for bottom sixers is a real thing. You want a proven one under 30? You have to overpay a bit. See Calvert, Matthew.

Exactly.

You get a lot more intangible for your buck with Calvert than with Nieto though.

You get more scoring too. Calvert's got better offense than Nieto, and it appears he upped his game a little more this season by improving his conditioning and working on other aspects of his game.

 

[Avsavsavsavsavs]

Calvert is easily worth the money. Before injuries set in our 4th line was torching teams early this season, a few extra million to keep that up is well worth it.

 

[Hasbro]

Calvert is easily worth the money. Before injuries set in our 4th line was torching teams early this season, a few extra million to keep that up is well worth it.

And it's not like they were eating up cap space that was needed elsewhere. It might as well be Monopoly Money or the Canadian Loonie to me until it gets near the ceiling and effects the roster.

I do worry a bit the Cap Crunch will torpedo Zadarov's trade value.

 

[Avs_19]

 

[forsbergavs32]

I'm down. That top 6 would be looking real good.

Lando-Mack-Rants
Bura-Kadri-Boeser
Nuke-JTC-Dong
Jost-PEB-Calvert

 

[Avs_19]

I'm down. That top 6 would be looking real good.

Lando-Mack-Rants
Bura-Kadri-Boeser
Nuke-JTC-Dong
Jost-PEB-Calvert

It might go something like this though.....

Benning: "We want hometown (close enough) boy Bowen Byram."

Sakic: "It was nice talking to you. Goodbye."

 

[forsbergavs32]

It might go something like this though.....

Benning: "We want hometown (close enough) boy Bowen Byram."

Sakic: "It was nice talking to you. Goodbye."

Most likely since they need D. I'd be willing to offer Timmins + Jost + 1st. Just glad we know Sakic wouldn't make a trade unless it's on his terms.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

It might go something like this though.....

Benning: "We want hometown (close enough) boy Bowen Byram."

Sakic: "It was nice talking to you. Goodbye."

They loveeee Newhook. Vancouver, Montreal and Colorado seem to be the three that showed the most interest.

As for Boeser, he’s a good player but I don’t love the fit. We need a relatively responsible defensive winger on line two who can pass the puck. Boeser is about as bad as it gets defensively and is shoot first which Kadri/Burakovsky don’t really need added to their line. To top it off he isn’t a great skater and because of this tends to play a little more East/West to compensate which just completely goes against the Avs style play.

Great hockey player, but not a great fit on the Avs imo.