Rumor: 2019-2020 Trade Rumours and Free Agent Discussion Version 6 | Deadline Ed.

[Sea Eagles]

If you have a chance at landing an elite skater you go for it IMO. One more elite piece at forward or defense would make the Avs the clear cup favourites in this league IMO.

However, Taylor Hall is not that elite piece in my view. This is someone with one fully truly elite season in his career, which was 2017/18. 2013/14 was also great I suppose...but the three years in between that were 38 points (53 games), 65 points (82 games), and 53 points (72 games). Last season he was producing at a high level but managed just 33 games (story of his career), and this year he's again just at 50 points in 62 games. Good numbers, not elite. And he only has just 15 goals. If he's wiling to sign a reasonable contract, sure, but at the likely 7 years, $9-11 million, and full NMC / NTC he's no doubt gunning for? Yeah, no thanks.

Basically, the only way I go for him is if he's decided he actually wants to win something in his career and takes less money / term than some clubs will throw at him in UFA. But given he apparently made it clear to NJ he wouldn't talk contract with any club so that they could do a sign and trade, I think he wants to go to UFA and get courted.

Honestly, I'd be okay with something like an old Marian Hossa type arrangement from 2008 - 2010, where he signed sizable, one year contracts in search of Cup glory.

The difficulty is finding players like that.

A GM can measure the space they have on a year-to-year basis, then apply it to a quasi rental as such.

 

[RockLobster]

Exactly, and that supports my point mate. Why would you WANT to be in a position, on a team presently 3rd overall, consistently making the playoffs, that as you say yourself, would have "Many other players would either be shipped out or bought out".

Not the strategy we need right now.

I was so please with our deadline moves. Even WITH our HUGE injury toll (and lets be fair, it's probably the biggest in the NHL), we keep winning, because of the chemistry, culture, effort & ability of the depth guys we already have.

Because the point is to always be striving to be better. So the question becomes "Does Taylor Hall make the Avs better?" I would say of course he does, because we have a rather obvious hole in the Top-6 that he would fill.

You would keep the same roster year-over-year, yet when inevitably a change is made you immediately come around on those players.

If I remember correctly, you didn't want any changes made to last year's roster. Well...we signed Donskoi, traded for Burakovsky, let Varlamov go, traded Barrie, and brought up Francouz. There will always be roster turnover because a GM will always be looking to improve.

So the Avs have the cap space, more if the cap is the higher end of what Daly said. They could go very big on a short-term deal for Hall if they wanted to and still be fine to extend MacKinnon and Makar when they're needed. I'm not saying I'd like to see them do that, but they could.

Since the introduction of the salary cap, we have personally seen that pretty much no contract is untradeable. If the Avs ever found themselves in a cap-crunch, there would be ways to get out of it. Of course we'd all prefer they not get there, but sometimes that's the business. You push your chips in and f***ing go for it.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Taylor Hall is still one of the best at his position in the game. If they have the chance to sign him, they should do that. That's a no-brainer.

They won't though. They'll save the cap space for a rainy day.

I’d like to see Hall on this team, but I worry about the Avs ability to sign MacK/Makar if they back up the Brinks truck for Hall.

 

[Gatorbait19]

For mine, it's not about how much you spend on the salary cap, but more about how your team works and plays together. If we were third overall in the NHL (as we are), but we were tight against the cap, would that make us a better team? You don't just spend cap space because it's there, in my view.

On a team that's improving exponentially, you keep those resources available for continuity, and consistency down the line with the personnel you have.

Just imagine an acquisition of Hall costing us one of Mackinnon, Makar or Byram when they require upgrades. No thanks.

Nice try, but I’m not buying it. We’re a good team, but we’d certainly be better with upgrades on Nieto, Namaste and/or Jost (possibly). I’m not saying we should get locked into massive and over inflated deals, but in the cap era it’s borderline criminal to let that much space go unused when you’re a contender.

And Poke said, a lotta other guys will be gone before those guys get traded. I also think that while we sign Cale and MacK long term, Byram will end up getting a 3 year bridge deal after his ELC to make the cap hit as low as possible.

Edit: Meant @RockLobster not Poke

 

[hooverdam]

I’d like to see Hall on this team, but I worry about the Avs ability to sign MacK/Makar if they back up the Brinks truck for Hall.

I don't. They'll have the money. It will prevent them from signing more bad contracts like Cole or Calvert (I know we all love him now but that's still not a good contract). It might make them see if Landeskog will be a team player on his extension instead of handing him a blank "thank you for being beautiful" check, or stop them from whatever stupidity they're thinking about giving Jost.

It would get bumpy for a player like Kadri, but you'd hope the Avs will have an ELC or two ready to step in there anyway, otherwise there was no point to hoarding first rounders the way they have.

Needing to manage the cap wisely further down in the lineup isn't a reason to avoid signing big ticket players unless there's a directive from above not to spend over a certain amount.

 

[Sea Eagles]

Because the point is to always be striving to be better. So the question becomes "Does Taylor Hall make the Avs better?" I would say of course he does, because we have a rather obvious hole in the Top-6 that he would fill.

You would keep the same roster year-over-year, yet when inevitably a change is made you immediately come around on those players.

If I remember correctly, you didn't want any changes made to last year's roster. Well...we signed Donskoi, traded for Burakovsky, let Varlamov go, traded Barrie, and brought up Francouz. There will always be roster turnover because a GM will always be looking to improve.

So the Avs have the cap space, more if the cap is the higher end of what Daly said. They could go very big on a short-term deal for Hall if they wanted to and still be fine to extend MacKinnon and Makar when they're needed. I'm not saying I'd like to see them do that, but they could.

Since the introduction of the salary cap, we have personally seen that pretty much no contract is untradeable. If the Avs ever found themselves in a cap-crunch, there would be ways to get out of it. Of course we'd all prefer they not get there, but sometimes that's the business. You push your chips in and f***ing go for it.

That's a fair call, but lets look at our direct situation:

Burakovsky is a left winger (scoring 25 points in 2018, 25 points in 2019 & on track for 64 points this season) - 25 years old. Definitive chemistry with Kadri and Nuke. Currently earning 3.25M per - would likely want an upgrade (but I feel should get another year contract at say 4.5 odd, with the biscuits coming if he can have another quality season).
(On pace for 28 goals)

Hall is a left winger (on track for 66 points this season) - 28 years old. Would be new to the club and require chemistry. Currently earning 6 mill per - would likely want an upgrade (people are claiming some crazy club will offer 9 odd mill per, and he'll want term).
(On pace for 20 goals)

I'm just not sure Hall is a fit here given what we have, unless you shift Burakovsky to right wing, have them both on the books, but jeez that's an expensive top 6.

 

[Sea Eagles]

Nice try, but I’m not buying it. We’re a good team, but we’d certainly be better with upgrades on Nieto, Namaste and/or Jost (possibly). I’m not saying we should get locked into massive and over inflated deals, but in the cap era it’s borderline criminal to let that much space go unused when you’re a contender.

And Poke said, a lotta other guys will be gone before those guys get traded. I also think that while we sign Cale and MacK long term, Byram will end up getting a 3 year bridge deal after his ELC to make the cap hit as low as possible.

One thing I think we have to consider, especially in this trade thread, is you need real bargain basement buys / players. Players that would earn somewhere like 1.5 odd per, but play well above that grade. I could see Jost doing exactly that.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I don't. They'll have the money. It will prevent them from signing more bad contracts like Cole or Calvert (I know we all love him now but that's still not a good contract). It might make them see if Landeskog will be a team player on his extension instead of handing him a blank "thank you for being beautiful" check, or stop them from whatever stupidity they're thinking about giving Jost.

It would get bumpy for a player like Kadri, but you'd hope the Avs will have an ELC or two ready to step in there anyway, otherwise there was no point to hoarding first rounders the way they have.

Needing to manage the cap wisely further down in the lineup isn't a reason to avoid signing big ticket players unless there's a directive from above not to spend over a certain amount.

Well if they feel confident they could resign MacK/Makar I wouldn’t have an issue with it. As long as it wasn’t a crazy long deal.

Btw, I still like the Cole/Calvert signings.

Calvert was real good in the playoffs last year and this season. Cole’s been very steady this year. Maybe we have him for a year too long, but he’s played pretty darn well.

 

[LakewoodAvsFan]

Sorry if this has already been asked, but what does Graves next contract look like?

 

[Gatorbait19]

One thing I think we have to consider, especially in this trade thread, is you need real bargain basement buys / players. Players that would earn somewhere like 1.5 odd per, but play well above that grade. I could see Jost doing exactly that.

I agree we’ll need that but I’m not sure Jost is a good example there or an option. Even if he’s on the team next year, he’ll probably only sign a 1-3 year deal. By the time we’ll really need the depth/bargain guys because of limited cap space, Jost should be making more than $1.5m. If he’s not, it will mean he’s not a good hockey player and he’ll certainly have worn out his welcome by that time.

 

[Papa Francouz]

Sorry if this has already been asked, but what does Graves next contract look like?

 

[RockLobster]

That's a fair call, but lets look at our direct situation:

Burakovsky is a left winger (scoring 25 points in 2018, 25 points in 2019 & on track for 64 points this season) - 25 years old. Definitive chemistry with Kadri and Nuke. Currently earning 3.25M per - would likely want an upgrade (but I feel should get another year contract at say 4.5 odd, with the biscuits coming if he can have another quality season).
(On pace for 28 goals)

Hall is a left winger (on track for 66 points this season) - 28 years old. Would be new to the club and require chemistry. Currently earning 6 mill per - would likely want an upgrade (people are claiming some crazy club will offer 9 odd mill per, and he'll want term).
(On pace for 20 goals)

I'm just not sure Hall is a fit here given what we have, unless you shift Burakovsky to right wing, have them both on the books, but jeez that's an expensive top 6.

A potential Hall signing pushes Donskoi to the 3rd line, where he is much better suited. And in turn Donskoi on the 3rd line pushes down others and adds overall depth to the lineup.

In my view there's no two ways about it--a potential add of Taylor Hall would make the Avs a better team.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Back on the topic of the expected rise in cap next year, here's what I think a potential, hypothetical roster could look like, before potential free agent signing. I'm also assuming we dump Zadorov at the draft.



Landeskog(5.5) - Mack(6.3) - Rantanen(9.25)
Bura(5.0) - Kadri(4.5) - xxxx
Donskoi(3.9) JT-3.5) - Nuke(3.0)
Jost(1.5) - PEB(1.8) - Calvert(2.85)
LOC/Kaut(0.9)


Graves(3.0) - Makar(0.9)
Girard(5.0) - EJ(6.0)
Byram(0.9) - Cole(4.25)
Timmins(0.9)


Grubauer(3.33)
Francouz(2.0)



That roster would be a 74.28M lineup. Meaning, if the Avs wanted to for next season. We could spend 10-12M(Depending on what the cap ends up being) on a Taylor Hall like Top 6 forward for that group.



And for the folks who would then argue we're f***ed for the years after that... the following summer we would have Cole(4.25M) + Calvert(2.85M) + Bellemare(1.8M) coming off the books, as well as another very likely 2-3M raise in the cap, if not more. We'd also have internal options available to replace both Calvert and Bellemare on ELCs in Newhook and Bowers.

This would also be the summer of the expansion draft. Meaning very likely that we lose one of Compher, Graves, or Donskoi at this point as well. So this would be the 2021 summer. Landeskog, Makar, and Grubauer(Potentially anyway) would be the big contracts to work on that summer. Landeskog likely gets a 2M raise(So the Calvert money), Makar would be a big one, likely taking 8M in additional salary to sign. But again Cole(4.25M) + the caps natural rise(Of lets say 2M) would cover a very large portion of that raise.

 

[Avs_19]

One player agent who reached me via text message on Wednesday after seeing the projected range the league announced wasn’t buying it.

“This is reminiscent of last year’s GMs meeting where we heard predictions of a significant bump in the cap, only to see it rise by only $2 million,” the agent said. “It appears that HRR (hockey-related revenues) growth will be between two to three percent. Where is the significant bump in HRR justifying a corresponding increase in the upper limit? It’s not there. It looks like the league is using the five percent escalator in these projections. For the last two seasons, the NHLPA only invoked the escalator to approx 1.3 percent. We’ll most likely see an upper limit for next season around $83.5 million.”

Avs will still be in a great position to do whatever they want this offseason even if it's only around $83.5M.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Back on the topic of the expected rise in cap next year, here's what I think a potential, hypothetical roster could look like, before potential free agent signing. I'm also assuming we dump Zadorov at the draft.



Landeskog(5.5) - Mack(6.3) - Rantanen(9.25)
Bura(5.0) - Kadri(4.5) - xxxx
Donskoi(3.9) JT-3.5) - Nuke(3.0)
Jost(1.5) - PEB(1.8) - Calvert(2.85)
LOC/Kaut(0.9)


Graves(3.0) - Makar(0.9)
Girard(5.0) - EJ(6.0)
Byram(0.9) - Cole(4.25)
Timmins(0.9)


Grubauer(3.33)
Francouz(2.0)



That roster would be a 74.28M lineup. Meaning, if the Avs wanted to for next season. We could spend 10-12M(Depending on what the cap ends up being) on a Taylor Hall like Top 6 forward for that group.



And for the folks who would then argue we're f***ed for the years after that... the following summer we would have Cole(4.25M) + Calvert(2.85M) + Bellemare(1.8M) coming off the books, as well as another very likely 2-3M raise in the cap, if not more. We'd also have internal options available to replace both Calvert and Bellemare on ELCs in Newhook and Bowers.

This would also be the summer of the expansion draft. Meaning very likely that we lose one of Compher, Graves, or Donskoi at this point as well. So this would be the 2021 summer. Landeskog, Makar, and Grubauer(Potentially anyway) would be the big contracts to work on that summer. Landeskog likely gets a 2M raise(So the Calvert money), Makar would be a big one, likely taking 8M in additional salary to sign. But again Cole(4.25M) + the caps natural rise(Of lets say 2M) would cover a very large portion of that raise.

Thanks for doing the cap work, Pierce. There looks to be a little bit more room than I thought.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Taylor Hall is still one of the best at his position in the game. If they have the chance to sign him, they should do that. That's a no-brainer.

They won't though. They'll save the cap space for a rainy day.

Is he though? He's a good player, but he's not in the top 10 wingers for me. Add in the fact that he's very difficult to build chemistry with, relies overly heavily on his physical attributes and I just don't see a great contract for his next teams future depending on the cost and especially term. Not to say I wouldn't like him here, but 6/7/8 years scares the hell out of me for a ~65 point player.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Is he though? He's a good player, but he's not in the top 10 wingers for me. Add in the fact that he's very difficult to build chemistry with, relies overly heavily on his physical attributes and I just don't see a great contract for his next teams future depending on the cost and especially term. Not to say I wouldn't like him here, but 6/7/8 years scares the hell out of me for a ~65 point player.

Yeah I really don't know why this fact does not bring the calls to go after him to a full stop.

Oft injured, and most of the years will be in his 30s.

This may be complete voodoo conspiracy, but hes also one of these types of players that you just rarely see his teams better off after he arrives there. Could be bad luck, but the guy just has a path of wreckage.