Prospect Info: 2019-2020 Senators Prospects Watch Part II

[MatchesMalone]

I’m starting to feel Perfetti has started to become slightly underrated. If he falls to 8 or lower someone will be very, very happy.

Wrong thread, but I think you might be right. People tend to overlook a player's warts in their D-1 season, and in their draft year everything comes under the microscope.

People have been realizing that Perfetti was over-rated coming into the season and there could be an over-correction. He has some flaws, but there's no denying the talent.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[Xspyrit]

How would you guys feel about Ottawa taking Stutzle and Drysdale in the draft?

What does a senators lineup look like in two years? You guys are going to get good very fast imo

Still a bit hard to say at the moment, first we need to see what will happen with Duclair, Connor Brown, DeMelo, Tierney, Pageau, Chlapik, Jaros, etc. But to give you an idea and if we end up with those 2 guys at the draft, the line-up in 2021-22 could look like :

Of course, don't look at lines as a clear cut hierarchy, it will depend on health, development, chemistry, experience, etc

Tkachuk-Stützle-Batherson
Duclair-Brown-Norris
Formenton-White-Balcers
Paul-Pinto-Brown
Abramov/Davidsson

Chabot-Drysdale
Brannstrom-JBD
Wolanin-Thomson
Alsing/Tychonick

Hogberg/Nillson/Daccord/Gustvasson? (Sogaard and Mandolese still developping)

 

[MatchesMalone]

Still a bit hard to say at the moment, first we need to see what will happen with Duclair, Connor Brown, DeMelo, Tierney, Pageau, Chlapik, Jaros, etc. But to give you an idea and if we end up with those 2 guys at the draft, the line-up in 2021-22 could look like :

Of course, don't look at lines as a clear cut hierarchy, it will depend on health, development, chemistry, experience, etc

Tkachuk-Stützle-Batherson
Duclair-Brown-Norris
Formenton-White-Balcers
Paul-Pinto-Brown
Abramov/Davidsson

Chabot-Drysdale
Brannstrom-JBD
Wolanin-Thomson
Alsing/Tychonick

Hogberg/Nillson/Daccord/Gustvasson? (Sogaard and Mandolese still developping)

Maybe I'm missing your point, but I'd have to disagree with the bolded. These two picks are supposed to be basically the centerpiece of this rebuild. Everything else should revolve around them, not the other way around.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Still a bit hard to say at the moment, first we need to see what will happen with Duclair, Connor Brown, DeMelo, Tierney, Pageau, Chlapik, Jaros, etc. But to give you an idea and if we end up with those 2 guys at the draft, the line-up in 2021-22 could look like :

Of course, don't look at lines as a clear cut hierarchy, it will depend on health, development, chemistry, experience, etc

Tkachuk-Stützle-Batherson
Duclair-Brown-Norris
Formenton-White-Balcers
Paul-Pinto-Brown
Abramov/Davidsson

Chabot-Drysdale
Brannstrom-JBD
Wolanin-Thomson
Alsing/Tychonick

Hogberg/Nillson/Daccord/Gustvasson? (Sogaard and Mandolese still developping)

Well. I mean. Who cares what happens with those guys.

to answer the OP. Personally I want two forwards. Top 10 like this. Packed with offensive talent. Just take it.

 

[Xspyrit]

Maybe I'm missing your point, but I'd have to disagree with the bolded. These two picks are supposed to be basically the centerpiece of this rebuild. Everything else should revolve around them, not the other way around.

Yeah, you totally missed the point but it looks like you're not the only one based on Burrowsaurus answer. No idea how I created the confusion. I guess you both thought I was answering the first question. I have now highlighted the part I was answering. I guess you can never be too exact lol

In no way I meant that things should revolve around them. I was simply answering the question :

What does a senators lineup look like in two years?

So if you looked at the line-up I proposed, I had Stutzle as the 1st line center and Drysdale on the first pair. Impossible to have things revolve MORE around them.

But since it was about the potential line-up in 2021-22 (not just the 1st line and 1st pairing), that is the reason why I have talked about Duclair, Connor Brown, DeMelo, Tierney, Pageau, Chlapik, Jaros... because they could potentially be there. Decisions will have to be made about them until then.

Well. I mean. Who cares what happens with those guys.

to answer the OP. Personally I want two forwards. Top 10 like this. Packed with offensive talent. Just take it.

Well, read above.

 

[MatchesMalone]

Yeah, you totally missed the point but it looks like you're not the only one based on Burrowsaurus answer. No idea how I created the confusion.

In no way I meant that things should revolve around them. I was simply answering the question :

What does a senators lineup look like in two years?

So if you looked at the line-up I proposed, I had Stutzle as the 1st line center and Drysdale on the first pair. Impossible to have things revolve MORE around them.

But the poster asked about the potential line-up in 2021-22, not just the 1st line and 1st pairing so that is the reason why I have talked about Duclair, Connor Brown, DeMelo, Tierney, Pageau, Chlapik, Jaros... because they could potentially be there, or not. Decisions will have to be made about them until then.

I have now highlighted the part of the I am Canadian post I was answering. I guess you can never be too exact lol



Well, read above.

Haha oy. Yeah that's my bad. Reading is hard.

 

[Xspyrit]

Haha oy. Yeah that's my bad. Reading is hard.

I figured it out! You and Bur. thought I was answering the 1st question

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[starling]

 

[Six Assets]

mandolese has significantly better numbers than his backup who has played 22 games compared to 30

 

[Six Assets]

 

[Xspyrit]

Very happy with Mandolese development this year.

This is what I said just after the draft :

#157 : I'm high on Mandolese. It becomes immediately our 3rd best goalie prospect after Gustvasson and Hogberg. He's super athletic and agile. Can't wait to see him develop. Could be a beast. Another guy that could have gone earlier but that's the thing with goalies (because of the number of goalie jobs available), you can be patient and wait later in the draft.

I also had notes taken from the rookie tournament in September but never filled the post I was supposed to update... and for sure have no idea where these notes are today lol

For anybody interested in reading that report :

GDT: - 2018 NHL Rookie Showdown (Sept. 7th-9th @ Place Bell)


Competition in the nets will be intense. Daccord and Mandolese both look great right now. Sogaard could be a monster and I think he could end up the best of the bunch. IMO we won't have to rely on Hogberg and Gustavsson. We'll have to flip someone at some point.

2020-21 : Nilsson-Hogberg
2021-22 : Hogberg-Daccord
2022-23 : Daccord-Mandolese/Gustavsson

Then who will be the 2 best as we should (hopefully) be contenders by then? Sogaard? Daccord? Mandolese? Gustavsson?

 

[Xspyrit]

It's fun looking at old posts. Sometimes we can be completely wrong but sometimes it's not too bad. As I was searching for a post about Mandolese, I found my tiers from about 1 year ago, not too many changes : I'd drop White maybe in the 3rd tier (but could still end up in the 2nd), Veronneau to the 4th tier. I'm tempted to raise Norris to the 1st tier. Should Formenton and Balcers be in that 2nd tier? Should Jaros and Chlapik drop to the 4th? Harpur, Klimchuk and Luchuk are out.

I was talking about the need of having another tier BEFORE the 1st tier so I'm thinking about the "Elite tier" (let's say the best 10 guys at each position C, LW, RW, LD, RD, G) : I though we had nobody but maybe Chabot and/or Tkachuk could be. We are also going to draft 2 guys that potentially could be. Where would the 2019 draftees fit?

Prospect Info: - Under 25 y/o Sens Players Ranking #10

​

1st tier (potential stars, ex : Spezza, Hoffman, Stone, Ryan (prime))

Thomas Chabot
Brady Tkachuk
Erik Brännström
Drake Batherson
Logan Brown

2nd tier (not stars but still impact players, ex : Fisher, Phillips)

Colin White
Christian Wolanin
Jacob Bernard-Docker
Josh Norris

3rd tier (good players, potential undetermined. Ex : Vermette, Pageau, Foligno)

Vitali Abramov
Max Veronneau
Alex Formenton
Rudolfs Balcers
Filip Chlapik
Anthony Duclair
Chris Tierney
Christian Jaros
Joel Daccord
Filip Gustavsson

4th tier (depth/role players, could potentially rise)

Jonathan Davidsson
Angus Crookshank
Jonny Tychonick
Maxime Lajoie
Marcus Högberg (see him as a backup)
Nick Paul (see him as a bottom-6 player)
Ben Harpur (don't see more upside than a 6th-7th D)
Kevin Mandolese (still very raw but like his potential)

5th tier :

Unlikely NHLers but still have a chance like Klimchuk, Gruden, Nurmi, Kelly, Luchuk, Novak, Beaudin, Englund, Sturtz

6th tier :

No chance barring a miracle like Loheit, Gendron, Burgess, Ahl

Note : some guys are in lower tiers than they could be because they need more time to prove themselves. Example, Crookshank and/or Tychonick could potentially rise next year. Gruden or Novak too. Like some guys could regress too.

 

[LudwigVonKarlsson]

It's fun looking at old posts. Sometimes we can be completely wrong but sometimes it's not too bad. As I was searching for a post about Mandolese, I found my tiers from about 1 year ago, not too many changes : I'd drop White maybe in the 3rd tier (but could still end up in the 2nd), Veronneau to the 4th tier. I'm tempted to raise Norris to the 1st tier. Should Formenton and Balcers be in that 2nd tier? Should Jaros and Chlapik drop to the 4th? Harpur, Klimchuk and Luchuk are out.

I was talking about the need of having another tier BEFORE the 1st tier so I'm thinking about the "Elite tier" (let's say the best 10 guys at each position C, LW, RW, LD, RD, G) : I though we had nobody but maybe Chabot and/or Tkachuk could be. We are also going to draft 2 guys that potentially could be. Where would the 2019 draftees fit?

Prospect Info: - Under 25 y/o Sens Players Ranking #10

1st tier (potential stars, ex : Spezza, Hoffman, Stone, Ryan (prime))

Thomas Chabot
Brady Tkachuk
Erik Brännström
Drake Batherson
Logan Brown

2nd tier (not stars but still impact players, ex : Fisher, Phillips)

Colin White
Christian Wolanin
Jacob Bernard-Docker
Josh Norris

3rd tier (good players, potential undetermined. Ex : Vermette, Pageau, Foligno)

Vitali Abramov
Max Veronneau
Alex Formenton
Rudolfs Balcers
Filip Chlapik
Anthony Duclair
Chris Tierney
Christian Jaros
Joel Daccord
Filip Gustavsson

4th tier (depth/role players, could potentially rise)

Jonathan Davidsson
Angus Crookshank
Jonny Tychonick
Maxime Lajoie
Marcus Högberg (see him as a backup)
Nick Paul (see him as a bottom-6 player)
Ben Harpur (don't see more upside than a 6th-7th D)
Kevin Mandolese (still very raw but like his potential)

5th tier :

Unlikely NHLers but still have a chance like Klimchuk, Gruden, Nurmi, Kelly, Luchuk, Novak, Beaudin, Englund, Sturtz

6th tier :

No chance barring a miracle like Loheit, Gendron, Burgess, Ahl

Note : some guys are in lower tiers than they could be because they need more time to prove themselves. Example, Crookshank and/or Tychonick could potentially rise next year. Gruden or Novak too. Like some guys could regress too.​

Generally agree with your post but wanted to point out that Harpur is with the Marlies/Leafs now.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

If Mandolese ever becomes a NHL player he's gotta get his mask painted like a Mandalorian and get the nickname Mando. We'd have pretty lit Star Wars night.

 

[DrEasy]

If Mandolese ever becomes a NHL player he's gotta get his mask painted like a Mandalorian and get the nickname Mando. We'd have pretty lit Star Wars night.

Not to be Captain Obvious, but I imagine the name Mandolese has something to do with the mandolin.

 

[Micklebot]

I didn't see this one posted yet,

https://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-top-100-prospects-ranking/
98: Shane Pinto, Ottawa Senators

Despite many Ottawa Senators fans being disappointed in Shane Pinto being selected 32nd overall in 2019, the prospect is very promising. Pinto is one of those players that just does everything right. He likely won’t blow up the scoresheet as he did at the 2020 World Junior Championship, but he does have the skill to provide some offense, work the special teams, and be a solid player in the NHL.

81: Lassi Thomson, Ottawa Senators

Yet another selection that Senators fans weren’t thrilled with, I think they will be one day. Lassi Thomson might be the whole package. He has experience as a leader, can provide offense, he’s an excellent skater, and he’s improving in his own end. If the puck isn’t on his stick, you can bet he’s working to get it there – he never gives up.

69: Jacob Bernard-Docker, Ottawa Senators

Don’t sleep on Jacob Bernard-Docker. Arguably the best defender for Team Canada at the 2020 World Juniors, “JBD” really brings it all to the table. He keeps getting better and better offensively, is solid in his own end, and is a great skater. He can run any special team group and does so regularly. At this point, I would say that his floor is a top-four NHL defenseman.

60: Josh Norris, Ottawa Senators

Josh Norris is a pass-first player who loves to dish the puck to his teammates but can also shoot the puck with authority – a trait which is certainly one of the most easily overlooked aspects of his game. In all, a sizeable centre with skills and smarts, Norris should develop into a sturdy and reliable player for the Senators. As he keeps growing, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him as a top-six player (as I’ve been saying since they acquired him).

46: Alex Formenton, Ottawa Senators

When you think of Alex Formenton, you think of speed. He’s one of the fastest prospects in the league, already putting NHL defenders on their heels in his short stints with the team. He has some more developing to do before he hits the NHL full time, but he’s getting close. You’ll often find him battling hard for the puck – and winning.

43: Logan Brown, Ottawa Senators

Senators prospect Logan Brown is a big (6-foot-6) centreman who is coming off a big season in the AHL. He’s a very talented playmaker, with the ability to surprise a goalie with a good shot. But he’ll check for any available passes first. He’s continuing to improve as time goes on, and while he’s taken longer than others from his 2016 draft class, he still looks like he could be a top-six player in the NHL. He may even graduate this season.

19: Drake Batherson, Ottawa Senators

Drake Batherson dominated the AHL in his rookie campaign, earning a brief stint in the NHL where he came in like a wrecking ball before tapering off. He’s always a threat when he’s on the ice, whether it’s through a hot or a pass. He’s a core piece of the Senators rebuild, and likely won’t be on this list for very long.

Brannstrom was graduated in their rankings.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

lol formenton 46 and norris 60. How old is that? 6 months?

 

[Xspyrit]

I didn't see this one posted yet,

https://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-top-100-prospects-ranking/
98: Shane Pinto, Ottawa Senators
81: Lassi Thomson, Ottawa Senators
69: Jacob Bernard-Docker, Ottawa Senators
60: Josh Norris, Ottawa Senators
46: Alex Formenton, Ottawa Senators
43: Logan Brown, Ottawa Senators
19: Drake Batherson, Ottawa Senators
Brannstrom was graduated in their rankings.

Why is Brannstrom graduated but not Batherson and Brown?

Oh : “A skater no longer qualifies as an NHL prospect if he has played 25 games in the NHL in any campaign, regular season and playoffs combined, or 50 games total; or reaches age 27 by Sept. 15 (From: “Pronman: 2019-20 NHL Farm System Rankings”).

lol that's ridiculous. 25 games is just not enough. Nick Paul played 24 games in 2015-16. He missed the cut by 1 game! Let that sink in.

I mean if you've played 25 games you're not a prospect anymore but if you're 26 y/o, no problem? lol

lol formenton 46 and norris 60. How old is that? 6 months?

Cole Caufield is #5. What will Norris have to do to get the consideration he deserves? I bet he leads scoring in the playoffs.

Personally, I don't trade Norris for Caufield. Norris is just 1.5 years older.

Generally agree with your post but wanted to point out that Harpur is with the Marlies/Leafs now.

Yeah thanks but I quoted that post directly. I wrote that about 1 year ago and it was including u-25 players so Chabot, Tierney and Duclair were in it.

If you notice in the current present post, at the end of the 1st paragraph, I said "Harpur, Klimchuk and Luchuk are out."

But yeah, going to put it in a quote to avoid confusion

 

[Micklebot]

lol formenton 46 and norris 60. How old is that? 6 months?

1 month old

I think when you're looking at a 14 spot spread in a top prospects league wide list, it's splitting hairs, so don't look at it as him seeing Formenton as significantly better. Remember too that these prospects are the same age (Formenton is 4 months younger actually) and that Formenton is only 8 pts back from Norris. I think Formenton started off the season in more of a checking role too.

 

[Micklebot]

Why is Brannstrom graduated but not Batherson and Brown?

Oh : “A skater no longer qualifies as an NHL prospect if he has played 25 games in the NHL in any campaign, regular season and playoffs combined, or 50 games total; or reaches age 27 by Sept. 15 (From: “Pronman: 2019-20 NHL Farm System Rankings”).

lol that's ridiculous. 25 games is just not enough. Nick Paul played 24 games in 2015-16. He missed the cut by 1 game! Let that sink in.

I mean if you've played 25 games you're not a prospect anymore but if you're 26 y/o, no problem? lol

You got to draw the line somewhere wrt when somebody ceases to be a prospect and becomes an NHL player, and age to me seems like something I wouldn't even bother including. If you're 26 vs 27 and haven't hit 25 games yet but turn out to be a super late bloomer, what difference does it make. You're not an NHL player either way.

 

[Micklebot]

Here's the same site's team rankings

https://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-farm-system-rankings/

2) Ottawa Senators

Previous Ranking: 5

Top Five Prospects:

Drake Batherson, Jacob Bernard-Docker, Logan Brown, Alex Formenton, Josh Norris
Key Graduates/Subtractions: Erik Brannstrom, Marcus Hogberg
Key Additions: N/A
The Senators are one year into their rebuild, and the prospect cupboard has been completely restocked. Yes, they traded star players Erik Karlsson, Mark Stone, and Matt Duchene away to do it, but the future could be looking very bright in the Canadian capital. Despite having Brady Tkachuk, Erik Brannstrom, Colin White, Rudolfs Balcers, and Christian Wolanin graduate, the club is still worthy of the top three.
Starting up front, the Senators have a potential star in Drake Batherson. He broke out this season, becoming an AHL All-Star in his rookie season while getting a taste of the NHL. He has elite hockey sense and can both dish out the puck or finish it himself.

Drake Batherson, Ottawa Senators (Amy Irvin / The Hockey Writers)
Logan Brown also broke out last season with Batherson, becoming one of the top players in the AHL. It’s taken him a little bit longer, but it’s important to remember that every prospect is different. He’s a big player (6-foot-6) and a great playmaker who might be a graduate of this list very soon.
Josh Norris was acquired in the Karlsson trade. He’s a fast centreman with great offensive ability. Speaking of speed, Alex Formenton is an absolute rocket, who can be used in any situation. He’ll be keeping NHL defenders on their heels very soon. Jonathan Davidsson, Vitali Abramov, Shane Pinto, and Jonathan Gruden are a few more stellar forward for the club.
Related: Ottawa Senators’ Prospect Pyramid
The Senators are just as deep on the blue line with a pair of right-handed defenders Lassi Thomson and Jacob Bernard-Docker. Thomson has a cannon of a shot and is a great passer, while Bernard-Docker is a two-way defender that is very good in his own end. Maxence Guénette is having a big year in the QMJHL and Jonny Tychonick has shown flashes of being a solid NHLer one day.
The Senators may not have one of the best goaltending prospects in the league, but they have three with a ton of potential. Filip Gustavsson and Mads Sogaard have the best chance to be the next starting goaltender, while Joey Daccord is right there too. It will be an interesting storyline to watch these goalies battle in out over the next few years.

 

[HSF]

LBrown and Branstrom are becoming underrated

 

[Xspyrit]

Again, too early to "graduate" Rudolfs Balcers. And of course Brannstrom who is 20 y/o and in the AHL at the moment.

Wolanin I could understand because he's soon going to be 25 y/o, has already 40 NHL games and would have played more if he wasn't injured. But technically, he's still a prospect. And IMO it's good to have higher thresholds because it gives more time to "figure out what a player could be.

Nick Paul is a very good example, he had 56 NHL games before this season but it's only this season that he finally "arrived" and solidified himself as a NHL player, at least for now.

You got to draw the line somewhere wrt when somebody ceases to be a prospect and becomes an NHL player, and age to me seems like something I wouldn't even bother including. If you're 26 vs 27 and haven't hit 25 games yet but turn out to be a super late bloomer, what difference does it make. You're not an NHL player either way.

If you aren't a NHL regular by age 26 or 27, chances are very very low that you'll have a significant career, except maybe for goalies. Mark Streit, Ville Leino and Brian Rafalski are the only non-goalies examples I can come up with, but it's also because they were playing in Europe

I have seen plenty of prospects eligibility criterias and HF are the ones I like the best by far. 65 NHL games (no matter in which season) is good because it's the majority of what would be a full season and 25 y/o seems to be a good cut-off to say that your NHL chances are quickly fading away

Heck, not entirely the same thing but Logan Brown is 21 y/o and we already saw people calling him a bust. Imagine if he is not a NHL regular by 25 y/o, he would be "long forgotten"