From what I have seen so far and I've only watched two games is both Tippet and Hepo have been invisible .
Prospect Info: 2019-2020 In The System: Springfield Thunderbirds, CHL, NCAA, Europe, etc.
- Thread starter SoupyFIN
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From what I have seen so far and I've only watched two games is both Tippet and Hepo have been invisible .
letsgrowcactus
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Invisible I can live with - it took him several months to adjust to Liiga too; most of his production early on came on the power play IIRC before he got used to playing against adults. His playoff performance with Karpat was a sign that he wasn't as close to the NHL as we may have hoped.
Hopefully he'll adjust sooner rather than later and his game improves.
letsgrowcactus
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Denisenko scores the lone goal in Lokomotiv's 1-2 defeat.
Watched just the last 20 minutes but he was very noticeable - call it a hot streak, call it gaining confidence after finally getting some points but whatever it is, I hope it continues. Got high icetime too (17:20, which was 3rd most among Lokomotiv's forwards) and played a lot in the 3rd which has usually not been the case. After only having two assists in the first twelve games, he now has 2+1 in the past four games. With 5 points in 16 games, he's now in his team's top 10 in scoring (team leaders are tied for 10 points in 17 games).
I know it's been said before but the tools are there. Fingers crossed he can make it.
Watched just the last 20 minutes but he was very noticeable - call it a hot streak, call it gaining confidence after finally getting some points but whatever it is, I hope it continues. Got high icetime too (17:20, which was 3rd most among Lokomotiv's forwards) and played a lot in the 3rd which has usually not been the case. After only having two assists in the first twelve games, he now has 2+1 in the past four games. With 5 points in 16 games, he's now in his team's top 10 in scoring (team leaders are tied for 10 points in 17 games).
I know it's been said before but the tools are there. Fingers crossed he can make it.
TheImpatientPanther
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Good to see his coach giving him more trust/leash, we knew he would produce if given more ice time and more offensive line-mates. They don't seem like a top 5 West team like last year but all we want is more TOI for him.
Hoping for a minimum of 10-ish goals and 30-35pts, if not more, if he gets 16-18 mins a game, with 46 games to go. Too harsh?
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I think that’s pretty harsh lol. If he gets 20 points it’s a good year for him.
TheImpatientPanther
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Really? Figured half a point a game would be an attainable goal.
You'd call 20pts in 62 games a successful year?
In the KHL at his age? Absolutely. He’s still undersized and skinny and his team is garbage.
letsgrowcactus
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As FP said, Denisenko's undersized and the team is terrible (bottom 6 in the league): their best guy (Anton Lander, 28, over 200 NHL games) is currently scoring at 0.63 .ppg; second-best guys (Ty Rattie, Stephan Da Costa - 26 and 30 respectively, both with some past NHL experience) can't even crack the 0.6 .ppg pace.
Also, Denisenko's unlikely to be there for full 62 games - remember, he's eligible for the U20 WJC and with Lokomotiv already pretty much out of playoffs by now, I don't see a reason why they wouldn't let him go.
So if he plays about 50 games, less than 15 points has me worried (though he's still a 19 year old and playing a full year in the KHL is a solid accomplishment in itself); 20 points there is a decent/good season; anything over 25 is great.
EDIT:
Denisenko goal here:
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- Oct 7, 2006
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Excuse my ignorance, but I still don't get why 20 points in 60 games would be a good result if he's the top end prospect we're hoping for. There are 18-20 year old kids stepping into the NHL getting more than that on a regular basis, so why would 20 points in the KHL as a 19 year old be that impressive?
The KHL is an extremely hard league for young players to score in. Over the years there is hardly anyone as a junior level player who can get great stats in that league. Go look at Panarin and Kucherov’s numbers at that age. They’re not good. Denisenko is also still physically immature as well.
letsgrowcactus
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20 points in 50 games (again, expecting 10 games he'll miss due to playing at WJC).
And look at KHL scoring. Last year, there were ten U23 players in the KHL who scored 0.4 ppg or better (looking at guys who played 20+ games). Out of that group, there were just two U20 guys, Kravtsov and Vesalainen. What they have in common besides being 1st round NHL picks - they're both huge (6'4, over 200 lbs). Vesalainen also played on a significantly better team than this year's Lokomotiv.
There's less scoring in the KHL than in NHL and it's not just the number of games. Last year, there were 32 guys in NHL who scored at 1 .ppg pace or better - compare that to the 5 guys in the KHL who scored at the same pace. Ten guys in KHL scored over 0.9 ppg last year - in the NHL it was 51 guys. The number of guys in both leagues are roughly comparable (813 guys played in the KHL vs. 922 played in the NHL last year). Plus, as I wrote above, Denisenko's team sucks - the best guy in Denisenko's team is scoring at a 0.63 ppg (which would translate to 32 points in 50 games).
Like FP says, Panarin at this age scored 21 points in 40 games (ca. 26 points in 50 games). Given his size and how awful the team is, 20 points in 50 games are decent production for Denisenko; 25 and more would be great (25 points in 50 games would currently put him at 4th best .ppg pace on his team).
It's freaking hard for young guys to score in the KHL, especially small ones. It doesn't help that plenty of coaches won't even give them the icetime and opportunity.
- Oct 7, 2006
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Thanks, that makes a lot of sense, I didn't know it was THAT drastically different in terms of league-wide scoring in KHL vs. NHL. Had the impression that it was only a bit lower. In that case then 20 points in 50 games would be pretty good.
TheImpatientPanther
Registered User
You got LGC saying the F word, guess we can't play rough with the/her rookies.
Didn't know it was that difficult of a league to score as well, I never watch KHL.
Still holding out hope he can hit 30pts in 50 games, he has the ability but he can't do it all by himself.
letsgrowcactus
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It also shows when you look at the KHL goalies save% vs. NHL save%.
Top 10 NHL goalies last year: save% ranges between 93.4-92.3; 1.89 GAA - 2.42 GAA.
Top 10 KHL goalies last year: save% 95.3-93.0; 1.11 GAA-1.98 GAA.
Obviously it's not that NHL goalies are worse than KHL goalies - it's just a league with less scoring.
TheImpatientPanther
Registered User
So I'd assume less shots against for the goalies?
Bigger ice surface should create more scoring opportunities no?
As pantherbot mentioned, it's suppose to be a skilled league a notch or two below NHL.
I'm confused
letsgrowcactus
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I'd say game in the NHL is faster because of the smaller rink - thus, more opportunities to score? Remember, I watch very little KHL - only when Denisenko or occasionally some Czech kid is playing.So I'd assume less shots against for the goalies?
Bigger ice surface should create more scoring opportunities no?
As pantherbot mentioned, it's suppose to be a skilled league a notch or two below NHL.
I'm confused
There is less shooting in the KHL (I think...), but also in KHL games, you usually have 7 D and 13 F, so that means everyone gets less icetime. I can't give you exact numbers KHL-wide (the league tracks them but won't show them in a nice manner), but going just by Lokomotiv, their top3 forwards (Da Costa, Rattie, Lander) average 17:57, 18:16 and 18:09 minutes per game this year - and they still seem to be leaning heavily on those three. Last year, there were just two forwards in the whole KHL who averaged over 20 minutes per game; in the NHL it was 26 guys.
I'm no expert at NHL-KHL comparisons but those are two things that jump out at me.
EDIT: Some discussion of the topic here (with links).
Finally, there are huge differences between KHL teams. The top teams (usually those that have money) tend to be very good. Bad teams OTOH can be really bad - and not just "we're the Ottawa of the KHL" bad, but "we didn't pay our players the last six months, might be bankrupt by the end of the year" bad.
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TheImpatientPanther
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Always impressed with your analysis.
So maybe it's a more of a true 4 line usage over there to spread the minutes because of the bigger ice surface? Must be hard to give 100% knowing you're not getting paid or possibly even insured?
Not that 17-18mins isnt a lot of time, but it is a big difference with what MacTavish was giving him?
30pts for Denny or he's a bust!
Isnt the U20 tourney in Czech this year, Ostrava and Třinec?
You should go, Denisenko, Noel and others like Knight should be there as well no?
So maybe it's a more of a true 4 line usage over there to spread the minutes because of the bigger ice surface? Must be hard to give 100% knowing you're not getting paid or possibly even insured?
Not that 17-18mins isnt a lot of time, but it is a big difference with what MacTavish was giving him?
30pts for Denny or he's a bust!
Isnt the U20 tourney in Czech this year, Ostrava and Třinec?
You should go, Denisenko, Noel and others like Knight should be there as well no?
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SoupyFIN
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I haven't seen Jokerit games actively for a year now, but before that I watched almost all of their games for a couple years, thus seeing the rest of the league play as well. There's some really bad teams in that league (some of them have gone under over the years or demoted), those teams basically played pond hockey with nonexistent structure.
Lokomotiv is one of the better teams though. I've noticed the trend that young guys rarely play important roles too.
Lokomotiv is one of the better teams though. I've noticed the trend that young guys rarely play important roles too.
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I guess what confuses it even more is that we always see the KHL to NHL points conversion as lowering KHL point totals to get an NHL projection like with Gusev, Radulov, Dadonov. But then I'm guessing they play on better teams and get more ice time.
Boothinator
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Friedman on Knight in 31 Thoughts
Speaking of good goalies, a scouting buddy was raving last week about Florida first-rounder Spencer Knight: “His team may not be that good, but he is.”
Speaking of good goalies, a scouting buddy was raving last week about Florida first-rounder Spencer Knight: “His team may not be that good, but he is.”
And I will toot my own horn until the day he retires that I thought he was the number one pick for the team.
RogerRoger
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The number one realistic option or do you think they ranked him ahead of Kakko, Hughes, Turcotte, Byram, Dach...so number 1 overall?
No, realistic option.
Hopefully he ends up number one best overall player from that draft
Gildon PPG tonight...
He has a goal and an assist as UNH is currently playing in OT tied at two. I have a feeling he’s going to do stuff like this all season long, he just dominates the puck at a different level...
* 3-4–7 in four games to date (1.75 PPG).
* Entered the game second in the nation in D PPG
* Has been on ice for 9 of UNH’s 14 GF
* Just 3 GA despite big mins
TheImpatientPanther
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AHL:
Kept an eye on the SPR (3-4-0) boxscore tonight, don't know why this game as they played Bridgeport (1-3-2) but it was enjoyable non the less.
1st period - Greco (3) scores just 37 seconds in, helpers from Byron (2) and Prow (6)
Bridgeport answer back just 90 seconds later and then 4 mins later as well to take a 2-1 lead. (hmm, sound familiar?)
Toninato (2) evens it up with 6 mins left, assisted by Repo (2) and Audette (1)
SPR outshot them 14-6
2nd period - SPR draws a PP just 2 minutes into the period, Tippett scores his 2nd of the year, unassisted on that PP.
A minute later, Keeper drops the gloves for his 2nd fight of the year, he's racking up PIMS (20 in 9 games) but not much else, one goal in 8 games so far.
4 mins later SPR get called for two separate penalties and go on a 5-3 PK.
Bridgeport tied it up at 3 just 27 seconds into the 2 man advantage.
1:40 to go, Tippett (3) strikes again with an ES goal, from Roy (4) and Prow (7), (@Ghoste , need your gif help here)
Toninato (3) scores another to make it 5-3 with just 20 seconds to go, helpers to Prow (8) and Greco (2) - Prow (RD) has been a great vet addition, 1g+8a in 9GP.
SPR up 31-19 in shots
3rd period -Bridgeport score 6 minutes in, making it a one goal game at 5-4.
15 seconds after this, Keeper drops his gloves again and gets tossed with 10 min GM.
6 minutes to go, Borgstrom "finally" pops one in for his first of the year, an ES goal, in his first game, it's the 6-4 insurance marker, help from Tippett (3) and Byron (3)
that's 3g+3a in 9 GP for Tippett, he won't show up every night but when he does, it's usually multiple goals/points, he was 1st star of game, Toninato was 2nd star
Thompson ices it just over a minute later, now 7-4, with an assist to Roy (5)
Driedger backstops the wild 7-4 win, stoping 29 of 33, he's now 3-3-0 and helps the team back to a .500 at 4-4-0. **He had a 2.22 GAA and .930 SV% coming into this game**
Listen, I'm wondering what's going on with Heponiemi, he had one SOG, his 2nd of the year to go with a -1, still stuck on the lone assist back in game #3.
They didn't post the lines tonight but looks like he's hit a brick wall offensively. Was hoping he'd at least produce on the PP.
Kept an eye on the SPR (3-4-0) boxscore tonight, don't know why this game as they played Bridgeport (1-3-2) but it was enjoyable non the less.
1st period - Greco (3) scores just 37 seconds in, helpers from Byron (2) and Prow (6)
Toninato (2) evens it up with 6 mins left, assisted by Repo (2) and Audette (1)
SPR outshot them 14-6
2nd period - SPR draws a PP just 2 minutes into the period, Tippett scores his 2nd of the year, unassisted on that PP.
A minute later, Keeper drops the gloves for his 2nd fight of the year, he's racking up PIMS (20 in 9 games) but not much else, one goal in 8 games so far.
4 mins later SPR get called for two separate penalties and go on a 5-3 PK.
1:40 to go, Tippett (3) strikes again with an ES goal, from Roy (4) and Prow (7), (@Ghoste , need your gif help here)
Toninato (3) scores another to make it 5-3 with just 20 seconds to go, helpers to Prow (8) and Greco (2) - Prow (RD) has been a great vet addition, 1g+8a in 9GP.
SPR up 31-19 in shots
3rd period -
15 seconds after this, Keeper drops his gloves again and gets tossed with 10 min GM.
6 minutes to go, Borgstrom "finally" pops one in for his first of the year, an ES goal, in his first game, it's the 6-4 insurance marker, help from Tippett (3) and Byron (3)
that's 3g+3a in 9 GP for Tippett, he won't show up every night but when he does, it's usually multiple goals/points, he was 1st star of game, Toninato was 2nd star
Thompson ices it just over a minute later, now 7-4, with an assist to Roy (5)
Driedger backstops the wild 7-4 win, stoping 29 of 33, he's now 3-3-0 and helps the team back to a .500 at 4-4-0. **He had a 2.22 GAA and .930 SV% coming into this game**
Listen, I'm wondering what's going on with Heponiemi, he had one SOG, his 2nd of the year to go with a -1, still stuck on the lone assist back in game #3.
They didn't post the lines tonight but looks like he's hit a brick wall offensively. Was hoping he'd at least produce on the PP.
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