2019-2020 Around the League Thread - Part III

[Gatorbait19]

In the unlikely event we were able to sign Hall to a reasonable contract, I think Bura is the odd man out. He’s been great for us and all, but with Hall he’d be an extreme luxury in the top 6. We also might have to trade Donskoi as well (now or next offseason) to make the numbers work. That’s a gamble I’m happy to take for Hall (again on a reasonable deal - both in money and especially term).

 

[henchman21]

The small overpayment deals are the killer on signing Hall. In a flat cap world, it is going to be hard to get teams to take on the Donskoi, Calvert, and Cole sort of contracts. Calvert and Cole drop off, but I think considering his usage and game, Calvert will be back for another round. Donskoi might be a contract the Avs end up regretting. The EJ contract is a real poison pill. With the CBA push happening, maybe compliance buyouts happen this offseason.

 

[Balthazar]

The small overpayment deals are the killer on signing Hall. In a flat cap world, it is going to be hard to get teams to take on the Donskoi, Calvert, and Cole sort of contracts. Calvert and Cole drop off, but I think considering his usage and game, Calvert will be back for another round. Donskoi might be a contract the Avs end up regretting. The EJ contract is a real poison pill. With the CBA push happening, maybe compliance buyouts happen this offseason.

If that were to happen this offseason I don't see the Avs buying out EJ.

 

[henchman21]

If that were to happen this offseason I don't see the Avs buying out EJ.

I don't either. The last round had them for a couple seasons, I'd imagine that will happen again.... still don't know if the Avs would use a compliance buyout on EJ.

 

[Balthazar]

I don't either. The last round had them for a couple seasons, I'd imagine that will happen again.... still don't know if the Avs would use a compliance buyout on EJ.

As much as we see them as big roadblocks the Avs probably see EJ and Landy as accepted cap anchors. Something something leadership, loyalty, etc.

 

[dahrougem2]

If there were compliance buyouts, I wouldn't mind the Avs using it on Donskoi since there's not a chance in hell they use it on EJ (who they should use it on) or Cole.

Frees up 3.9M and he's replaceable. Especially if you go out and sign Taylor Hall?

Landeskog - MacKinnon - Rantanen
Hall - Kadri - Burakovsky
Calvert - Compher - Nichuskin
Nieto - Bellemare - Jost

That 4th line leaves a lot to be desired, and I also would miss Donskoi being a right-shot given we only have three of them up front as-is, but the sacrifice is worth it.

Let's not act like Hall is chopped liver, either. 93 points two seasons ago, played at a 91 point pace last season, and played at a 66 point pace which, while a significant drop-off, can probably be attributed to the Devils sucking and incessant trade rumours and actual trade happening.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Ya I like Donskoi and I get the signing at the time last summer, Avs weren't really that deep last year st this time and we needed scoring depth. Donskoi at 3.9M for 40 odd points is decent value.

But the Avs have ended up being much deeper than anticipated this year and moving forward and now you kind of wish the Donskoi deal didn't happen.

I think if we needed to, some team would take him for a mid round pick. He's about as consistent as they come for hitting 35-40 a year and especially on some teams starving for scoring I think some teams would have interest.

 

[henchman21]

I think if we needed to, some team would take him for a mid round pick. He's about as consistent as they come for hitting 35-40 a year and especially on some teams starving for scoring I think some teams would have interest.

He might be consistent for hitting a total... but he's about as streaky as they come. He will go for 20-30++ game stretches with basically nothing... then 20 games of being PPG. With the limited cap space this year, I don't really see anybody wanting him. Avs would probably have to pay (a small amount) to dump the contract.

 

[AvsCOL]

I find having both Compher and Donskoi to be a little redundant. They fill a similar role, while taking up $7.5m in cap combined. The Avs currently have an abundance of middle-six forwards, and I wouldn't mind having one of them moved in the coming seasons. $3.5m - $4m could be cleared that way, without losing a whole lot of value. One of them is going to be playing 4th line next season I think, and that's way too much to pay for that.

 

[Richard88]

The Nichuskin signing and success on the ice probably makes Donskoi a bit redundant, but it was hard to foresee that back when he was signed.

If we want to move Donskoi maybe we could include him in a package where we get someone like Lehkonen back ($1.5m cheaper and an excellent PK).

 

[Tralfamadore]

Donskoi is a super effective player and the kind of guy Stanley Cup teams have playing in their middle 6. Moving him would be a mistake imo.

 

[5280]

Donskoi is a super effective player and the kind of guy Stanley Cup teams have playing in their middle 6. Moving him would be a mistake imo.

Yeah I like Donskoi. He seems to like playing here, too. Plus he's versatile which helps.

 

[dahrougem2]

The Nichuskin signing and success on the ice probably makes Donskoi a bit redundant, but it was hard to foresee that back when he was signed.

If we want to move Donskoi maybe we could include him in a package where we get someone like Lehkonen back ($1.5m cheaper and an excellent PK).

You aren't trading Donskoi for a player 4 years younger that has similar production, is a much better penalty killer and is cheaper.

 

[Pokecheque]

I think the Avs went into the deal knowing full well it might be an overpayment. Nearly any UFA deal is that by default, which is why you can't rely on it as a building block (but boy the Rangers just keep trying to do it though). The Avs needed the speed, scoring depth, and defensive ability he provided. Despite the fact that he hit some ice cold streaks, he also served a vital role when the team's top two wingers went down.

Also, he scored a hat trick in that absolute PASTING of the Predators, which makes the entirety of the deal worth it right there.

In the end if they have to move it, they will with very little fanfare. I'm not concerned about it in the slightest. The EJ contract is far more problematic, and even that one isn't on the level of a lot of bad contracts around the league.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

You aren't trading Donskoi for a player 4 years younger that has similar production, is a much better penalty killer and is cheaper.

I mean, he did say as part of a package. Donskoi certainly wouldnt be the main piec, nor a piece that even adds much value to the deal. More of like a warm body that can be a decent depth option.

 

[Richard88]

You aren't trading Donskoi for a player 4 years younger that has similar production, is a much better penalty killer and is cheaper.

Notice that I said "If we want to move Donskoi maybe we could include him in a package where we get someone like Lehkonen back ($1.5m cheaper and an excellent PK)."

What I meant there wasn't that it would be a 1-for-1 trade. Rather, I meant that maybe a Donskoi/Lehkonen swap could be used to offset the value difference between other pieces in a bigger trade.

 

[Richard88]

I think the Avs went into the deal knowing full well it might be an overpayment. Nearly any UFA deal is that by default, which is why you can't rely on it as a building block (but boy the Rangers just keep trying to do it though). The Avs needed the speed, scoring depth, and defensive ability he provided. Despite the fact that he hit some ice cold streaks, he also served a vital role when the team's top two wingers went down.

Also, he scored a hat trick in that absolute PASTING of the Predators, which makes the entirety of the deal worth it right there.

In the end if they have to move it, they will with very little fanfare. I'm not concerned about it in the slightest. The EJ contract is far more problematic, and even that one isn't on the level of a lot of bad contracts around the league.

I agree. It shouldn't be too difficult to move him via trade as he's still an effective player, and only very slightly overpaid. Plenty of teams wanted him last summer and would gladly have signed that same contract.

There's also the Expansion Draft where he could very realistically be the best forward exposed.

• Protected (7+3+1):
  • Mackinnon, Rantanen, Landeskog, Kadri, Burakovsky, top 6 forward, Compher
  • Makar, Girard, Graves
  • Grubauer
• Exposed
  • Donskoi, Nichuskin
  • Johnson (waives NMC)
  • Francouz

In that scenario I could see Seattle preferring to take Donskoi, and if needed we could even throw them a mid-round pick to steer them in his direction and away from Francouz/Nichuskin.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

The only way we’d have to offer Byram in any hypothetical Nylander trade is if somebody else is offering a near Byram level prospect. I highly doubt they are.

If the Leafs are moving Nylander it’s almost certainly to create cap space for Pietrangelo. In that situation the Leafs are not going to be looking to take back any salary. They’d want a right shot NHL ready prospect on his ELC. They won’t get too many better than Timmins. Plus he already has the Dubas/Keefe connection.

It would obviously take a hell of a lot more than Timmins, but I think that’s a nice piece to start.

 

[Balthazar]

The only way we’d have to offer Byram in any hypothetical Nylander trade is if somebody else is offering a near Byram level prospect. I highly doubt they are.

If the Leafs are moving Nylander it’s almost certainly to create cap space for Pietrangelo. In that situation the Leafs are not going to be looking to take back any salary. They’d want a right shot NHL ready prospect on his ELC. They won’t get too many better than Timmins. Plus he already has the Dubas/Keefe connection.

It would obviously take a hell of a lot more than Timmins, but I think that’s a nice piece to start.

Actually in that scenario they wouldn't absolutely need a RHD back as they'd be set with Petro, Holl and Liljegren.

 

[Balthazar]

Everyone is assuming that Dubas would move Nylander but he doesn't have to. Kerfoot and Kapanen combined make as much as Nylander.

Also don't discard the possibility of moving Marner for a huge splash and an opportunity to add many pieces.

After Kadri got traded Nylander became the best value contract on the Leafs*, he can't keep trading those.

*other than Rielly.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Actually in that scenario they wouldn't absolutely need a RHD back as they'd be set with Petro, Holl and Liljegren.

Yep that’s true. Never really considered that they just achieved their biggest need with Pietro lol

Everyone is assuming that Dubas would move Nylander but he doesn't have to. Kerfoot and Kapanen combined make as much as Nylander.

Also don't discard the possibility of moving Marner.

That would be the smart move. LA for example would probably do Doughty for Marner straight up in a heartbeat. Or if Pietrangelo is the plan they could get a ridiculous futures return on Marner. Bill Nylander is a far more valuable asset to the Leafs than Marner when you factor in contracts along with their ability.

 

[McMetal]

I think he'd give us a very significant boost for the first half of our cup window. If we can't sign him for 3 years or less I'd pass.

The goal is trying to upgrade our top 6 without destroying the 2nd half of our window by trading Byram and Newhook.

I just disagree that he's a boost for us. We were a top scoring team in the league this year without him, will an extra 50 points REALLY make that big a difference? Even putting aside the astronomical salary you're proposing, that isn't a big needle mover.

You're assuming he will magically stay healthy on our team, and also mesh well with our second line (they're not breaking up the top line) AND that he wouldn't be a locker room cancer. That's too many assumptions for me.

 

[Balthazar]

I just disagree that he's a boost for us. We were a top scoring team in the league this year without him, will an extra 50 points REALLY make that big a difference?
.

When you're a contender like us swapping a guy like Donskoi on the 2nd line for a guy like Hall can definitely make the difference between a cup and no cup. Hall is an elite passer while Bura and Kadri are shooters. That could be a lethal 2nd line and I would really like to see them together.

Also I think for a short contract the risk is minimal.

In the end I'd much rather spend 12M on Hall than 4M on a meh player and not spend the other 8M in cap space.

 

[McMetal]

When you're a contender like us swapping a guy like Donskoi on the 2nd line for a guy like Hall can definitely make the difference between a cup and no cup. Hall is an elite passer while Bura and Kadri are shooters. That could be a lethal 2nd line and I would really like to see them together.

Also I think for a short contract the risk is minimal.

In the end I'd much rather spend 12M on Hall than 4M on a meh player and not spend the other 8M in cap space.

I just think the urge to spend to the cap no matter what is kind of misguided. I mean, we're a legit contender in the west this year despite having the fourth lowest payroll in the league. Spending money doesn't automatically mean your team is better, just ask the Sharks. We have an object lesson right in front of us that having cap space doesn't mean you have a bad team.

I'm not saying we SHOULDN'T spend to the cap, I just think it needs to be for the right player, and Hall isn't that player.

 

[Pokecheque]

I think Taylor Hall's a bad bet at this point. He's an elite, franchise-level talent and former MVP so I'm not questioning that at all, nor do I buy into all the disparagement of his character that seems to follow him around wherever he goes. But I'm way concerned about a guy who's now officially past his prime getting what will no doubt be a massive, long-term contract when he already has an injury history. And if you're the GM signing him, you're praying the last two seasons are just a blip on the radar and not a sign of serious decline. His underlying numbers this year were worrisome. It wasn't his ability to drive play and create offense that took a serious downturn--it was his defense, which dragged down the other aspects of his game.

The way he plays reminds me a little of Lindros, in both good and bad ways. He's a bit reckless like Lindros was, which lent itself to injuries for both players.