2019-20 Roster Speculation Part 12: Still Too Many Defensemen

[dortt]

at least Pilut is up. Now, he had BETTER play and not sit in the Victor Antipin Memorial Press Box

 

[darcyRegier]

Pilut called up, wondering if more D are getting shipped soon...

Hopefully it’s Bogo or McCabe.

 

[Zman5778]

Pilut called up, wondering if more D are getting shipped soon...

Hopefully it’s Bogo or McCabe.

I can't imagine McCabe going anywhere now. He, Pilut and Dahlin make a fine trio of NHL caliber LHD.

Gilmour looked ok, but I don't think he's a long-term option for 3rd pairing LHD

 

[MeenOlViks]

at least Pilut is up. Now, he had BETTER play and not sit in the Victor Antipin Memorial Press Box

Is that on the 400 level?

 

[Rowley Birkin]

After this season, Johansen has 5 additional years.... at 8 million per.... running through ages 28-32.

1. You cannot trade Reinhart to acquire him. Getting older and less productive is not the goal of finding a center.

2. Mitts + D + Futures is certainly a package worth entertaining

3. It's an all in move. You can certainly make changes around the edges, but a move like this means a 5ish year window with Eichel, Reinhart, Skinner, Johansen, Olofsson, Dahlin, Joki, Pilut, Ullmark as the core that's invested in.

Mitts, 2020 1st, 2021 4th, Samuelsson for Johansen

Reinhart 5 x 8.0
Olofsson 2 x 5.0
Montour 4 x 4.5
Ullmark 3 x 4.0
Larsson 3 x 3.0
Pilut 2 x 1.5
Tage QFO 925K
Lazar QFO 800K
Johansson QFO 800k

Trade out: Hutton, McCabe, Miller for picks

Olofsson-Eichel-Reinhart
Skinner-Johansen-Johansson (2 Johansens... That'll be fun for a year)
Arttu-Asplund-Tage (certainly have cap space to sign a solid vet here)
Lazar-Larsson-Okposo (If it ain't broke)

Dahlin-Joki (plenty of cap space in 2021 to get these guys locked up.
Montour-Risto (Risto likely becomes a cap casualty)
Pilut-Borgen (Pilut and Borgen make Risto cap casualty fine)

Ullmark
Johansson

For that package... I'd want more than Johansen coming back.

 

[Jame]

For that package... I'd want more than Johansen coming back.

Filling the 2C hole, without parting with actual top NHL talent... is the goal.

Yea, it's a heavy price to pay in "futures"... but unless you want to waste Eichel's prime, it's the move that must be made. The only other option is to bank on Mitts/Cozens developing in to playoff contender worthy 2nd liners. Or crossing your fingers that a premier UFA center will sign here soon....

You want to bet Eichel's prime on that? I don't. I want to get to the playoffs and see how much super is in Eichel's star as soon as possible.

Botterill already wasted the supposed "be patient" years... it's act now time.

 

[sabrebuild]

For that package... I'd want more than Johansen coming back.

I think it's pretty reasonable to be concerned about what your getting with RyJo, but consider exactly what your trading there.

Mitts, high pick, but at this point I think we can all agree that he lacks the high end athletic ability and skating to become a premier nhl player. I think it's fair to say his ceiling is a slicker puck handling version of Reinhart. Most likely gonna be a Vesey type of 30-40 point player depending on his opportunity and limited skill set. Floor, european pro in 5 years.

Samuelson, I would be shocked if he becomes even a Toni Lydman type and we already have a closer better skating version of that in Borgen. Eminently replaceable player.

4th, whatever.

2020 1st, the scary part of the deal. If we made that move today, they are 4 points out of the playoffs. If we guesstimate that puts us on a pace to miss the WC by 8 points, we need to believe that RyJo could positively bump the team by 5-6 points.

Individually that's a pretty significant impact, but in relation to what we have at center, it actually could be close as soon as this year, even with the injuries.

Let's shoot the middle and say they would just miss the playoffs with that addition and we get the 12th overall. Meh.

It's pricey. But to fill a huge whole, boost both the offense and defense, let MarJo be on his more natural wing, and have 6 actual top 6 players.

Yes, please.

 

[Jame]

I think it's pretty reasonable to be concerned about what your getting with RyJo, but consider exactly what your trading there.

Mitts, high pick, but at this point I think we can all agree that he lacks the high end athletic ability and skating to become a premier nhl player. I think it's fair to say his ceiling is a slicker puck handling version of Reinhart. Most likely gonna be a Vesey type of 30-40 point player depending on his opportunity and limited skill set. Floor, european pro in 5 years.

Samuelson, I would be shocked if he becomes even a Toni Lydman type and we already have a closer better skating version of that in Borgen. Eminently replaceable player.

4th, whatever.

2020 1st, the scary part of the deal. If we made that move today, they are 4 points out of the playoffs. If we guesstimate that puts us on a pace to miss the WC by 8 points, we need to believe that RyJo could positively bump the team by 5-6 points.

Individually that's a pretty significant impact, but in relation to what we have at center, it actually could be close as soon as this year, even with the injuries.

Let's shoot the middle and say they would just miss the playoffs with that addition and we get the 12th overall. Meh.

It's pricey. But to fill a huge whole, boost both the offense and defense, let MarJo be on his more natural wing, and have 6 actual top 6 players.

Yes, please.

To be clear... i think a RyJo acquisition is wrought with risk. I'm 50/50 on whether I'd do that hypothetical deal. I'd rather pursue Zibanjed, Hertl, Rakell, etc... guys with 2 more seasons after this year. Ryjo's 5 remaining scares me.

But I fully believe we HAVE to do something at 2C before next season.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Filling the 2C hole, without parting with actual top NHL talent... is the goal.

Yea, it's a heavy price to pay in "futures"... but unless you want to waste Eichel's prime, it's the move that must be made. The only other option is to bank on Mitts/Cozens developing in to playoff contender worthy 2nd liners. Or crossing your fingers that a premier UFA center will sign here soon....

You want to bet Eichel's prime on that? I don't. I want to get to the playoffs and see how much super is in Eichel's star as soon as possible.

Botterill already wasted the supposed "be patient" years... it's act now time.

I totally understand & agree with the premise.

I just don't like Johansen for that package. I think that package either gets you a much better player, or you get Johansen for less.

Then again he's a player I've never really rated that highly even going back to his time on the BJs...

 

[Jame]

I totally understand & agree with the premise.

I just don't like Johansen for that package. I think that package either gets you a much better player, or you get Johansen for less.

Then again he's a player I've never really rated that highly even going back to his time on the BJs...

It's typical for the fan base not to see the formerly prized prospect for what he is now... unless Mitts does enormous value rehabilitation, he's not worth what Sabres fans think he is. He's on the path to Pavel Zacha trade value...

 

[DatGuy]

It's typical for the fan base not to see the formerly prized prospect for what he is now... unless Mitts does enormous value rehabilitation, he's not worth what Sabres fans think he is. He's on the path to Pavel Zacha trade value...

correct, I wouldn't be surprised if Tage has more trade valve than Mitts.

 

[jc17]

Even if its later than everyone wants, I think they do get a C this season, the bigger question will be if its a high quality one, or frolik type. I have a feeling they're going to go the way of the "2-way, experienced player" who might be a little past prime, but not cost a ton in assets, like zajac, bonino or something.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

It's typical for the fan base not to see the formerly prized prospect for what he is now... unless Mitts does enormous value rehabilitation, he's not worth what Sabres fans think he is. He's on the path to Pavel Zacha trade value...

The 2020 1st is clearly the most valuable piece of that package.

Samuelsson & Mitts are also valuable components.

I'm not typically a 'homer' when it comes to these things either - if anything I'm normally critical of Sabre fans for over valuing our own players/assets.

I just believe that package gets you a better player than Johansen... Or you get Johansen for less.

If the Calgary rumours are true I'd much rather pursue Sean Monahan for example...

 

[Fjordy]

If the Calgary rumours are true I'd much rather pursue Sean Monahan for example...

What kind of rumors?

 

[debaser66]

correct, I wouldn't be surprised if Tage has more trade valve than Mitts.

They are both questionable prospects.
Thompson was worse than Mitts last year but better in the minors/camp.
He still has to prove himself at the NHL level.
You just think he has more value because you didn't see him for a while.

 

[Jame]

The 2020 1st is clearly the most valuable piece of that package.

Samuelsson & Mitts are also valuable components.

I'm not typically a 'homer' when it comes to these things either - if anything I'm normally critical of Sabre fans for over valuing our own players/assets.

I just believe that package gets you a better player than Johansen... Or you get Johansen for less.

If the Calgary rumours are true I'd much rather pursue Sean Monahan for example...

Fair...

I don't think a pick in the teens in this draft is that big of a risk to trade. Maybe add a top 10 protection clause to the trade...

I dont think Monahan is available.

 

[dkollidas]

Filling the 2C hole, without parting with actual top NHL talent... is the goal.

Yea, it's a heavy price to pay in "futures"... but unless you want to waste Eichel's prime, it's the move that must be made. The only other option is to bank on Mitts/Cozens developing in to playoff contender worthy 2nd liners. Or crossing your fingers that a premier UFA center will sign here soon....

You want to bet Eichel's prime on that? I don't. I want to get to the playoffs and see how much super is in Eichel's star as soon as possible.

Botterill already wasted the supposed "be patient" years... it's act now time.

I agree with this.
Something around Mittelstadt, Ristolainen & 2020 1st?

Is Ristolainen too much? I don’t know, but I know I can roll with Dahlin-Montour, McCabe-Jokhiharju, Pilut-Miller for this year with Bogo as our 7th D and Borgen/Gilmour providing depth in Rochester.

It would just balance so much roster wise.

 

[Jame]

I agree with this.
Something around Mittelstadt, Ristolainen & 2020 1st?

Is Ristolainen too much? I don’t know, but I know I can roll with Dahlin-Montour, McCabe-Jokhiharju, Pilut-Miller for this year with Bogo as our 7th D and Borgen/Gilmour providing depth in Rochester.

It would just balance so much roster wise.

Id rather not trade Risto and save him for a pipeline replenishing deal in a year or two.

Mitts, 2020 1st, + 1 of Miller/McCabe/Samuelsson, plus throw in some chopped liver if needed

 

[flashsabre]

VO Eichel Reinhart
Skinner X Y
Mojo Asplund Frolik
Girgs Larry Okposo

Fill in X and Y and this team could compete. The problem is filling in X and Y.

 

[Chainshot]

It's typical for the fan base not to see the formerly prized prospect for what he is now... unless Mitts does enormous value rehabilitation, he's not worth what Sabres fans think he is. He's on the path to Pavel Zacha trade value...

Given Zacha's defensive chops, that he's available and proven as a 3rd line center in Jersey is actually kind of tempting. I do think they could get more out of Mittelstadt by continuing to work with him, but will it be at center or on the wing? With them working him on the wing, it could be just a confidence builder before they move him back to center, but who knows. That would involve a member of the press asking that sort of question.

 

[Jame]

Given Zacha's defensive chops, that he's available and proven as a 3rd line center in Jersey is actually kind of tempting. I do think they could get more out of Mittelstadt by continuing to work with him, but will it be at center or on the wing? With them working him on the wing, it could be just a confidence builder before they move him back to center, but who knows. That would involve a member of the press asking that sort of question.

Yea, Im all for acquiring Zacha. If we can't get a true #2 center, we need to load up on centers that can play a strong 2 way game.

McCabe for Zacha
Samuelsson for Zacha
Erod for Zacha

?

 

[Chainshot]

Yea, Im all for acquiring Zacha. If we can't get a true #2 center, we need to load up on centers that can play a strong 2 way game.

McCabe for Zacha
Samuelsson for Zacha
Erod for Zacha

?

That's been my drum beat for a while - find good defensive centers and get another viable line instead of having the Isle of Misfit Toys. Jankowski was the guy I thought would be easiest to get, and it's not like the team doesn't know the hell out of him with his uncle working for them and that they scouted the hell out of them prior to the pick swap with Calgary. Another possible one would be Riley Nash who has history covering for Skinner as F3 with him in Carolina. Get use, worry about ideal fit in the summer.

 

[Fjordy]

Zacha should be one of the main targets, if he is affordable and the price does not bite too much.

 

[Icicle]

Mittelstadt for Zacha is some crazy impatience. That's not moving any needle.

If you can manage something like McCabe and a pick or Risto + Rodrigues for Zacha + Wood, you've got something to work with.

 

[Fezzy126]

To be clear... i think a RyJo acquisition is wrought with risk. I'm 50/50 on whether I'd do that hypothetical deal. I'd rather pursue Zibanjed, Hertl, Rakell, etc... guys with 2 more seasons after this year. Ryjo's 5 remaining scares me.

But I fully believe we HAVE to do something at 2C before next season.

Ok, so I've seen Hertl's name thrown around rather subtly both here and in the twitter-verse. Is there any validity, rumors, etc, or is this all just pipe dream?

Because he is someone I would move A LOT to acquire.