Prospect Info: 2019-20 Prospects Thread Part II (CHL, NCAA, Junior A, Europe)

[Cousin Eddie]

I don’t think Jost will ever be a top 6’er. He just doesn’t really have a top 6 caliber anything.

Great work ethic. Pretty good defensively. Appears to be great on the PK we found out late this year and for a few games in the playoffs. He’s an NHL’er but I don’t think it’s ever in a top 6 or for many teams even a top 9.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

It wasn't Hyperbole at all. Dries legitimately showed more in his limited ice time in game then Jost showed.
I distinctively remember Dries coming close on a wrap around attempt in the 2nd, and a missed just high on an odd man rush attempt, he also finished with more shots than Jost did, with half the ice time.



Dries isn't an NHL quality player(14th forward maybe), Jost is just the same quality. Kind of amazed that people can still defend his play after that Dallas series honestly. Every depth piece we had come into the lineup played better than him.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

One shift here and one shift there doesn't constitute him being "gifted a chance". I challenge anyone to find a stretch of 5 straight games where he was consistently put in a Top-6 role for the entire game since he's been with the Avs. He's been given 'spot' chances here and there and hasn't been able to grab the spot.

What hurts teams MORE is when scouts bang the table for "Top-6 or bust" players like Casey Mittelstadt and when he can't cut the NHL in that role, then they don't even have an NHL player in any capacity. Now I feel it's still much too early to tell 100% with that particular player but it's not looking good for him as a bottom-6 guy.

Players will always turn-out differently than what you had hoped. Sometimes better and a lot of times worse but when that player can still turn out to be serviceable, it's better than not at all. When the Calgary Flames drafted Chuck Kobasew 14th overall, I'm sure they were hoping he was going to be a top-scorer. It didn't happen but he still managed to carve out a career. When Ottawa selected Curtis Lazar 17th overall, they were convinced they had a future 50 goal scorer on their hands... maybe in the ECHL.

Here you go. November 1st - November 9th 2019. 5 straight games with Kadri.

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

P.S. He has never been with Mackinnon for more than 1 consecutive full game.

 

[MarkT]

I still think Jost could be successful in a system that doesn't rely on speed and where he can play with guys who will win puck battle for him and get him the puck to shoot or tip. I still like him as a depth guy/injury fill-in since he's developed a responsible-enough game that he doesn't hurt you on the ice when he's playing, and can play all three forward positions. That kind of flexibility has value. It's still my hope that some GM out there sees "top 10 pick" and values him higher than his play dictates.

 

[Bender]

Here you go. November 1st - November 9th 2019. 5 straight games with Kadri.

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

P.S. He has never been with Mackinnon for more than 1 consecutive full game.

Coincidentally, he ended up with 3 points in those 5 games.

 

[Richard88]

Coincidentally, he ended up with 3 points in those 5 games.

Looking at that you'd almost think he was developing some chemistry with his linemates and starting to perform better.

 

[henchman21]

One shift here and one shift there doesn't constitute him being "gifted a chance". I challenge anyone to find a stretch of 5 straight games where he was consistently put in a Top-6 role for the entire game since he's been with the Avs. He's been given 'spot' chances here and there and hasn't been able to grab the spot.

What hurts teams MORE is when scouts bang the table for "Top-6 or bust" players like Casey Mittelstadt and when he can't cut the NHL in that role, then they don't even have an NHL player in any capacity. Now I feel it's still much too early to tell 100% with that particular player but it's not looking good for him as a bottom-6 guy.

Players will always turn-out differently than what you had hoped. Sometimes better and a lot of times worse but when that player can still turn out to be serviceable, it's better than not at all. When the Calgary Flames drafted Chuck Kobasew 14th overall, I'm sure they were hoping he was going to be a top-scorer. It didn't happen but he still managed to carve out a career. When Ottawa selected Curtis Lazar 17th overall, they were convinced they had a future 50 goal scorer on their hands... maybe in the ECHL.

I'm not sure what Mittelstadt has to do with Jost... but on that train, it was obvious that Mittelstadt was mismanaged by Buffalo from the beginning. He was a project that they rushed based upon wanting to get rid of ROR and a great WJC. That said, his main issue, isn't all that dissimilar to Jost. He's not a good enough skater at the NHL level. Mittelstadt has a lot better set of offensive skills, but can't skate himself into the right areas. Now, Buffalo may have finally made the right choice with him and put him in the AHL to apply his game for a while. The last couple months of the season, he was one of the best players in the AHL. If he can continue that, and drop 10 pounds, there might still be a NHL player there. Still more upside than Jost. All that said, Mittelstadt busting will still cost a scout his job.

Every year since Jost has been here, he has been penciled in as a 2nd line player to begin the season. Each year he loses that spots because he isn't capable of it. He's a soft 3rd/4th line player at this point. He works hard, plays solid defense, and is genuinely a good kid... but he isn't a top 6 capable player. It is hard to be a top 6 player in the NHL and sometimes top 10 picks bust like this... but even if he has a career as a solid 3rd liner... for his position, he's a bust.

 

[Bender]

I'm not sure what Mittelstadt has to do with Jost... but on that train, it was obvious that Mittelstadt was mismanaged by Buffalo from the beginning. He was a project that they rushed based upon wanting to get rid of ROR and a great WJC. That said, his main issue, isn't all that dissimilar to Jost. He's not a good enough skater at the NHL level. Mittelstadt has a lot better set of offensive skills, but can't skate himself into the right areas. Now, Buffalo may have finally made the right choice with him and put him in the AHL to apply his game for a while. The last couple months of the season, he was one of the best players in the AHL. If he can continue that, and drop 10 pounds, there might still be a NHL player there. Still more upside than Jost. All that said, Mittelstadt busting will still cost a scout his job.

Every year since Jost has been here, he has been penciled in as a 2nd line player to begin the season. Each year he loses that spots because he isn't capable of it. He's a soft 3rd/4th line player at this point. He works hard, plays solid defense, and is genuinely a good kid... but he isn't a top 6 capable player. It is hard to be a top 6 player in the NHL and sometimes top 10 picks bust like this... but even if he has a career as a solid 3rd liner... for his position, he's a bust.

I just remember some people suggesting that Mittelstadt was going to end up the best player to come out of the 2017 draft. It goes to show that the draft is not an exact science. The difference between him and Jost - is that one can adapt his game and play a bottom 6 role whereas the other one cannot.

Was Mittelstadt more poorly mismanaged than Jost? In both cases, each player probably would have been better off staying in school and putting in some time in the AHL before being asked of a Top-6 role in the NHL.

I'm going to disagree with the bolded. He was maybe 'pencilled-in' as a 2nd line player his first full year as a 19 year old (2017-18) and as a 20 year old (2o18-19) but last season with the additions the Avs made, he was well behind Kadri, Burakovsky, Compher and Donskoi for the 2nd line.

 

[Foppa2118]

I think the best description of Jost ever is that he's always "almost"

He "almost" won that puck battle
He "almost" reached the puck first
He "almost" scored that goal

Here's some things Jost was good at though.

Regular Season

1st (tied with Kadri) with 24 Penalties Drawn while only averaging 12:46
1st on the Avs with 0.84 Giveaways/60 (not including callups that only played a few games)
5th best forward on Avs with 15 rebounds created

Playoffs (Arizona+Dallas)

1st on Avs with 7 Penalties Drawn while only averaging 11:19
3rd on Avs with 1.76 Takeaways/60
4th best forward on Avs in 5v5 CF% (58.08) and FF% (59.13) (not including Calvert)

 

[Pokecheque]

I just remember some people suggesting that Mittelstadt was going to end up the best player to come out of the 2017 draft. It goes to show that the draft is not an exact science. The difference between him and Jost - is that one can adapt his game and play a bottom 6 role whereas the other one cannot.

Was Mittelstadt more poorly mismanaged than Jost? In both cases, each player probably would have been better off staying in school and putting in some time in the AHL before being asked of a Top-6 role in the NHL.

I'm going to disagree with the bolded. He was maybe 'pencilled-in' as a 2nd line player his first full year as a 19 year old (2017-18) and as a 20 year old (2o18-19) but last season with the additions the Avs made, he was well behind Kadri, Burakovsky, Compher and Donskoi for the 2nd line.

IIRC the projected 2nd line going into this season was Jost-Kadri-Burakovsky. That changed in a hurry as injuries and Jost's play factored into things.

IMO Jost still has to do more in order to really "adapt" his game. He's still just a marginal 3rd liner at best.

 

[henchman21]

I just remember some people suggesting that Mittelstadt was going to end up the best player to come out of the 2017 draft. It goes to show that the draft is not an exact science. The difference between him and Jost - is that one can adapt his game and play a bottom 6 role whereas the other one cannot.

Was Mittelstadt more poorly mismanaged than Jost? In both cases, each player probably would have been better off staying in school and putting in some time in the AHL before being asked of a Top-6 role in the NHL.

I'm going to disagree with the bolded. He was maybe 'pencilled-in' as a 2nd line player his first full year as a 19 year old (2017-18) and as a 20 year old (2o18-19) but last season with the additions the Avs made, he was well behind Kadri, Burakovsky, Compher and Donskoi for the 2nd line.

There was hype and I certainly helped that hype. The book isn’t written on Mittelstadt (or Jost) yet. Buffalo did the right thing too late on the reversal of their course.

Jost was certainly rushed. I’d argue Mittelstadt was put in a worse situation to start... especially being thrust into a dysfunctional franchise with too much riding on his shoulders to replace ROR. Not an excuse though, if he busts, it is on him. Talent almost always wins out, and is likely neither are talented enough to be impact players. Mittelstadt’s time in the AHL did him good. He’ll have to translate that to the NHL next season.

Last season right after the deal, Jost was to be Kadri’s LW with Burkie at the RW. This was stated by Sakic after the trade.

 

[Foppa2118]

I'm not sure what Mittelstadt has to do with Jost... but on that train, it was obvious that Mittelstadt was mismanaged by Buffalo from the beginning. He was a project that they rushed based upon wanting to get rid of ROR and a great WJC. That said, his main issue, isn't all that dissimilar to Jost. He's not a good enough skater at the NHL level. Mittelstadt has a lot better set of offensive skills, but can't skate himself into the right areas. Now, Buffalo may have finally made the right choice with him and put him in the AHL to apply his game for a while. The last couple months of the season, he was one of the best players in the AHL. If he can continue that, and drop 10 pounds, there might still be a NHL player there. Still more upside than Jost. All that said, Mittelstadt busting will still cost a scout his job.

Every year since Jost has been here, he has been penciled in as a 2nd line player to begin the season. Each year he loses that spots because he isn't capable of it. He's a soft 3rd/4th line player at this point. He works hard, plays solid defense, and is genuinely a good kid... but he isn't a top 6 capable player. It is hard to be a top 6 player in the NHL and sometimes top 10 picks bust like this... but even if he has a career as a solid 3rd liner... for his position, he's a bust.

If Jost doesn't get any excuses than neither does Mittelstadt. Especially when Jost has been better than Mittelstadt in each equivalent post draft year.

Jost

D+1 NCAA - 33 games 35 points - 1.06 pts/gm
D+2 NHL - 65 games 22 points - 0.34 pts/gm
D+3 NHL - 70 games 26 points - 0.37 pts/gm
D+4 NHL - 67 games 23 points - 0.34 pts/gm

Mittelstadt

D+1 NCAA - 34 games 30 points - 0.88 pts/gm
D+2 NHL - 77 games 25 points - 0.32 pts/gm
D+3 NHL - 31 games 9 points - 0.29 pts/gm

 

[Richard88]

IIRC the projected 2nd line going into this season was Jost-Kadri-Burakovsky. That changed in a hurry as injuries and Jost's play factored into things.

IMO Jost still has to do more in order to really "adapt" his game. He's still just a marginal 3rd liner at best.

I clearly recall Sakic saying in his conference call right after July 1st that Jost would be the 2LW and Compher 3C.

This was our roster going into the season:

Landeskog --- Mackinnon ---- Rantanen
Jost -------------- Kadri ---------- Burakovsky
Wilson --------- Compher ----- Donskoi
Nieto ---------- Bellemare ----- Calvert
Kamenev/Nichuskin/O'Connor/Kaut

Girard ----- Johnson
Zadorov --- Makar
Cole -------- Graves/Connauton/Barberio/Rosén/Timmins/Byram

 

[Balthazar]

Mittelstadt's lack of natural athleticism isn't helping to reach the next level. We all remember what happened with him at the combine.

Not everyone can be Phil Kessel.

 

[Pokecheque]

37 is an oddly popular number in hockey.

 

[The Kingslayer]

37 is an oddly popular number in hockey.

I like it.

 

[henchman21]

2020 NHL organizational rankings: No. 8 Colorado Avalanche

Avs are ranked 8th in Pronman's organizational rankings.

 

[JLo217]

2020 NHL organizational rankings: No. 8 Colorado Avalanche

Avs are ranked 8th in Pronman's organizational rankings.

Pretty respectable for a near contending team.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Byram ranked above Girard is bold. Could be correct though. If Byram becomes better than G the Avs D is going to be so f***ing loaded.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

2020 NHL organizational rankings: No. 8 Colorado Avalanche

Avs are ranked 8th in Pronman's organizational rankings.

Sounds like Pronman didn’t watch playoff Makar play defence.

It’s also kinda crazy that he has Byram over Girard, but he is a big time prospect. Good to see he thinks incredibly highly of Burma’s skating.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Sounds like Pronman didn’t watch playoff Makar play defence.

It’s also kinda crazy that he has Byram over Girard, but he is a big time prospect. Good to see he thinks incredibly highly of Burma’s skating.

Not really... Cale had some good moments defensively, he also had some really bad moments.


I think his evaluation of Cale was pretty much spot on. The one thing I dont totally agree with was the 35 rating he gave Cale for the physical play. Kid loves making a big hit whenever he can and also isn't afraid to take a hit to make the right play at all.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Not really... Cale had some good moments defensively, he also had some really bad moments.


I think his evaluation of Cale was pretty much spot on. The one thing I dont totally agree with was the 35 rating he gave Cale for the physical play. Kid loves making a big hit whenever he can and also isn't afraid to take a hit to make the right play at all.

I thought he was really good defensively in the playoffs. Just my opinion though. I think it’s tough for a player to break away from a narrative once one is started.

For U-22 talent I think he’s rated Colorado pretty fairly. I might have them 2/3 spots higher, but there are several teams that have better U-22 talent.

 

[henchman21]

Byram ranked above Girard is bold. Could be correct though. If Byram becomes better than G the Avs D is going to be so f***ing loaded.

I see that as the way it should go. G is either a 2 or 3 defensemen depending how you feel about the definitions. If you feel the 32nd-61st defensemen are all 2s, G is a 2. If you feel that 2s are more subjective and there are about ~20-25 of them in the league (after ~15-20 1s), then G is probably a 3. I think G is a very good 3, and could become a 2 cleaning up some of his issues with heavy forechecks. Now with Byram, he should become the level that G is today... if he isn't that would be a disappointment to me.

Overall I'm okay with his list and placement overall. Some nitpicks like Jost still being too high, no Kovolenko (though he's known to not be a fan)... but overall not too bad. He's finally starting to turn on Jost's skating though... only took 4 years!

 

[Ararana]

2020 NHL organizational rankings: No. 8 Colorado Avalanche

Avs are ranked 8th in Pronman's organizational rankings.

Byram ranked above Girard is bold. Could be correct though. If Byram becomes better than G the Avs D is going to be so f***ing loaded.

One is Makar, one is Byram

 

[S E P H]

One is Makar, one is Byram

View attachment 366497 View attachment 366498

Lol, Pronman going full Pronman and rating Byram's skating higher than Makar.

- Makar destroys Byram in terms of skating and I don't consider it close.
- Puck skills is fine.
- Makar getting underrated in the physical department, Byram getting overrated.
- Makar is level or two higher in the hockey sense for me as well.
- Byram has a better, heavier, and more consistent shot.