Prospect Info: 2019-20 Oilers Prospect Thread II

[belair]

Most interesting one to me here is Lavoie. They must like that he's getting premier minutes, which is not a guarantee in the AHL.

He's their star player.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Most interesting one to me here is Lavoie. They must like that he's getting premier minutes, which is not a guarantee in the AHL.

He gets lots of minutes to work on his game, good spot for him IMO.

 

[snipes]

He gets lots of minutes to work on his game, good spot for him IMO.

Yup, it’s good for his development. Just let him stay over there.

I wonder if this will be a become a new trend even post Covid. Have some of those young North American guys go to Europe for a year or two before the AHL. I think it could become a year good development model. Even just the time away from their comfort zones in Canada or the USA could be good for their development as people not just hockey players.

Not to mention all of Holland’s European connections through treating people the right way over a number of years makes this feasible. Absolutely love how he’s found so many spots for so many different guys.

 

[McJadeddog]

Yup, it’s good for his development. Just let him stay over there.

I wonder if this will be a become a new trend even post Covid. Have some of those young North American guys go to Europe for a year or two before the AHL. I think it could become a year good development model. Even just the time away from their comfort zones in Canada or the USA could be good for their development as people not just hockey players.

Not to mention all of Holland’s European connections through treating people the right way over a number of years makes this feasible. Absolutely love how he’s found so many spots for so many different guys.

I remember wondering the same thing during the lockout season and it never happened. It really does make sense though. The lower euro-leagues are really somewhere between the CHL and the AHL, and would be a good landing zone for many players that don't really have a shot at making the NHL, even as a callup.

 

[snipes]

I remember wondering the same thing during the lockout season and it never happened. It really does make sense though. The lower euro-leagues are really somewhere between the CHL and the AHL, and would be a good landing zone for many players that don't really have a shot at making the NHL, even as a callup.

Better to play top pairing or first line minutes in the Allsvenskan or 2nd Swiss League for example than riding the bench or playing limited minutes in the AHL.

It’s a good stop gap option, I anticipate more Canadian and American players in our system playing in Europe even in the post-Covid world.

It makes sense on so many fronts.

 

[romelson]

A possible indication that Broberg might be staying in Canada.
Broberg's club in Sweden, Skelleftea, just announced a d-man signing out of the blue which surprised most fans. (canadian McKeown of Charlotte Checkers).

 

[OiledUp]

A possible indication that Broberg might be staying in Canada.
Broberg's club in Sweden, Skelleftea, just announced a d-man signing out of the blue which surprised most fans. (canadian McKeown of Charlotte Checkers).

Isn't he just replacing Petter Granberg who's out with injury? And also a right hand shot.

 

[MoontoScott]

Question for the board:

I notice that Ryan McLeod is playing in the "Swiss A" league.

How does that compare, in terms of quality, to the KHL (Samorukov) or the league that Swedish league that Broberg is in?

 

[ConnorMcMullet]

Philip Kemp scored his first goal in the HockeyAllsvenskan, assisted by Raphael Lavoie.



Dmitri Samorukov recorded an assist playing in his first game for Team Russia in the Channel One Cup.

Carter Savoie plays at 7:05 PM today.

 

[MuzzaFuzza]

Question for the board:

I notice that Ryan McLeod is playing in the "Swiss A" league.

How does that compare, in terms of quality, to the KHL (Samorukov) or the league that Swedish league that Broberg is in?

This an equivalency chart from 2018.

Seems like they have the NLA on par with the AHL/Liiga. About a step below the SHL and two steps below the KHL.

 

[MoontoScott]

This an equivalency chart from 2018.

Seems like they have the NLA on par with the AHL/Liiga. About a step below the SHL and two steps below the KHL.

Thanks very much, that is useful information.

I read a few articles on the net that said the Swiss league was now superior to the AHL in terms of quality which I found to be fascinating but not necessarily true. Its amazing though how hockey in Switzerland has grown over the last decade.

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[McDNicks17]

Gotta love those draft picks that take six years to get to the AHL and have an AHL ceiling.

 

[Oilhawks]

Well, Khaira doesn't even have the shot of Khaira anymore so who knows?

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Gotta love those draft picks that take six years to get to the AHL and have an AHL ceiling.

They were probably hoping that his bloodline would warrant the selection. His dad was known as one of the hardest workers in the game.

 

[Hinterland]

Thanks very much, that is useful information.

I read a few articles on the net that said the Swiss league was now superior to the AHL in terms of quality which I found to be fascinating but not necessarily true. Its amazing though how hockey in Switzerland has grown over the last decade.

First of all, Swiss League is the 2nd tier league so it's not as good as AHL.

But you can't really compare AHL and European leagues. Completely different styles. Different types of players needed in order to be successful. If you can't skate, that's no problem in the AHL but those players would be lost in any of Europe's top leagues on the wider ice. On the other hand, you need a certain amount of grit and strength to play in the AHL whereas in Europe there are hardly any board battles or fights and there isn't much hitting going on either, all due to the wider European ice.

In terms of European leagues, money rules. NL caught up to the SHL or even passed them already. Even the Swedes dropping out of the NHL mostly don't return to Sweden but sign with NL or KHL clubs instead. Recent examples such as Klasen or Palushaj scored very similar numbers in NL and SHL but there's also a guy like Ted Brithén who they'd like to shoot to the moon in Bern. Was one of the SHL's top scorers, shooters and faceoff men in recent years but has done shit for Bern so far. They got him to replace Mark Arcobello but Britén doesn't even have remotely the influence or presence of Arcobello.

Having said that, the pandemic could "help" the SHL. Most of their clubs were pretty much bankrupt even before the pandemic and their attendance is lower than the NL's and KHL's, too. With almost no spectators allowed for quite a while now, NL teams are losing shitloads of money. In fact, Zug can't even afford to replace McLeod. So while I'd say that the NL is at least as good as the SHL right now, that might change if most NL-clubs run out of money due to playing through the pandemic.

Apparently, all NL-clubs except ZSC Lions seem to be in favour of a new rule allowing 10 foreign players instead of just 4 but players with a Swiss licence but no Swiss passport would count as foreigners, too. The hope is to save money since the most expensive players with the current system are the quality Swiss players (or players with Swiss licence). I get the need for cost control due to this pandemic and it might even improve the league short term but longterm it would make it much tougher for Swiss players to not only get a spot but mostly ice time and quality ice time.

 

[OiledUp]

First of all, Swiss League is the 2nd tier league so it's not as good as AHL.

But you can't really compare AHL and European leagues. Completely different styles. Different types of players needed in order to be successful. If you can't skate, that's no problem in the AHL but those players would be lost in any of Europe's top leagues on the wider ice. On the other hand, you need a certain amount of grit and strength to play in the AHL whereas in Europe there are hardly any board battles or fights and there isn't much hitting going on either, all due to the wider European ice.

In terms of European leagues, money rules. NL caught up to the SHL or even passed them already. Even the Swedes dropping out of the NHL mostly don't return to Sweden but sign with NL or KHL clubs instead. Recent examples such as Klasen or Palushaj scored very similar numbers in NL and SHL but there's also a guy like Ted Brithén who they'd like to shoot to the moon in Bern. Was one of the SHL's top scorers, shooters and faceoff men in recent years but has done shit for Bern so far. They got him to replace Mark Arcobello but Britén doesn't even have remotely the influence or presence of Arcobello.

Having said that, the pandemic could "help" the SHL. Most of their clubs were pretty much bankrupt even before the pandemic and their attendance is lower than the NL's and KHL's, too. With almost no spectators allowed for quite a while now, NL teams are losing shitloads of money. In fact, Zug can't even afford to replace McLeod. So while I'd say that the NL is at least as good as the SHL right now, that might change if most NL-clubs run out of money due to playing through the pandemic.

Apparently, all NL-clubs except ZSC Lions seem to be in favour of a new rule allowing 10 foreign players instead of just 4 but players with a Swiss licence but no Swiss passport would count as foreigners, too. The hope is to save money since the most expensive players with the current system are the quality Swiss players (or players with Swiss licence). I get the need for cost control due to this pandemic and it might even improve the league short term but longterm it would make it much tougher for Swiss players to not only get a spot but mostly ice time and quality ice time.

Yeah the top players are of much higher quality in the Swiss league but the depth is much stronger in the SHL which is why SHL teams tend to win the matchups. The SHL is also an extremely tactical league, very defensively structured, lots of checking in all zones to the point it's almost unwatchable some games so it's a tough league to score in, you sort of have to "learn the league" to put up points and not rely purely on skill. Unless you are Elias Pettersson.
Brithén is a pretty good example of a guy who doesn't have a lot of skill but is a tactically strong player who eventually figured out a role where he could put up strong numbers(though last season, which is probably the season Bern was looking at when they thought he'd replace Arcobello's offense, was an outlier and not really a true representation of the player he is). Pretty bad scouting on Berns part I'd say.

 

[Johnny97]

 

[Hinterland]

Yeah the top players are of much higher quality in the Swiss league but the depth is much stronger in the SHL which is why SHL teams tend to win the matchups. The SHL is also an extremely tactical league, very defensively structured, lots of checking in all zones to the point it's almost unwatchable some games so it's a tough league to score in, you sort of have to "learn the league" to put up points and not rely purely on skill. Unless you are Elias Pettersson.
Brithén is a pretty good example of a guy who doesn't have a lot of skill but is a tactically strong player who eventually figured out a role where he could put up strong numbers(though last season, which is probably the season Bern was looking at when they thought he'd replace Arcobello's offense, was an outlier and not really a true representation of the player he is). Pretty bad scouting on Berns part I'd say.

ZSC Lions won the Champions Hockey League in 2009 and Swiss teams won 3/4 games vs Swedish teams back then. The new Champions League is an exhibition tournament, even starting up during preseason before the first league games are played. Money also nowhere comparable to 2009. I don't know about others but Swiss teams tend to rest a lot of vets in these games and if they don't, these vets tend to half ass it and play not to get hurt. Money rules, hey. I never quite understood the point of this tournament with no significant money in it.

I agree regarding your other comments but if the SHL really was still any better, Brithén should still be able to produce similar numbers. So far he hasn't. In no area.

 

[OiledUp]

ZSC Lions won the Champions Hockey League in 2009 and Swiss teams won 3/4 games vs Swedish teams back then. The new Champions League is an exhibition tournament, even starting up during preseason before the first league games are played. Money also nowhere comparable to 2009. I don't know about others but Swiss teams tend to rest a lot of vets in these games and if they don't, these vets tend to half ass it and play not to get hurt. Money rules, hey. I never quite understood the point of this tournament with no significant money in it.

I agree regarding your other comments but if the SHL really was still any better, Brithén should still be able to produce similar numbers. So far he hasn't. In no area.

I think the Champions League halfassing is equal on both sides. I still don't see the Swiss league as being better. It probably will be if they allow more imports since the money is so much better and the difference in quality depth would even out but with Sweden producing better home grown talent AND allowing an unlimited number of imports I maintain that the edge goes to the SHL in overall strength. But we'll probably have to agree to disagree I think.

Brithén is one player failing, he's a limited player to start with though he's clearly not up to his usual standards. It happens, guys comes from the NHL and look so so in the SHL at times, doesn't say much about the quality of the respective leagues.

 

[Hinterland]

I think the Champions League halfassing is equal on both sides. I still don't see the Swiss league as being better. It probably will be if they allow more imports since the money is so much better and the difference in quality depth would even out but with Sweden producing better home grown talent AND allowing an unlimited number of imports I maintain that the edge goes to the SHL in overall strength. But we'll probably have to agree to disagree I think.

Brithén is one player failing, he's a limited player to start with though he's clearly not up to his usual standards. It happens, guys comes from the NHL and look so so in the SHL at times, doesn't say much about the quality of the respective leagues.

Brithén isn't the only one. There are countless others. Linus Klasen for example. Seemed pretty much done with hockey, was at times perma scratched in Lugano, now doing very well in the SHL. Anton Rödin was a complete bust for Davos but is somehow over a point per game the last three seasons in the SHL. But again, due to the pandemic, Swiss clubs lost a lot of money while Swedish clubs never had any money to begin with. Swedish clubs don't rely much on gate revenue either as many of their stadiums are empty anyway. So I could certainly see this pandemic help the SHL to gain ground compared to KHL and certainly NL.

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[ConnorMcMullet]

With 2+1 today, Ty Tullio now has 5 points in 4 games playing on the worst team in Slovakia's top pro league. Not too shabby.

Carter Savoie plays again today, his last game before a bit of a break.

 

[ConnorMcMullet]

Here are the 3 points recorded by Ty Tullio today, maybe our team's most underrated prospect:

Assist — Tullio, #74, wins the battle behind the net and gets the primary assist


Goal #1


Goal #2


Mike Kesselring is playing right now, to be followed by Carter Savoie.

 

[OiledUp]

Brithén isn't the only one. There are countless others. Linus Klasen for example. Seemed pretty much done with hockey, was at times perma scratched in Lugano, now doing very well in the SHL. Anton Rödin was a complete bust for Davos but is somehow over a point per game the last three seasons in the SHL. But again, due to the pandemic, Swiss clubs lost a lot of money while Swedish clubs never had any money to begin with. Swedish clubs don't rely much on gate revenue either as many of their stadiums are empty anyway. So I could certainly see this pandemic help the SHL to gain ground compared to KHL and certainly NL.

The difference in average attendance in the two league is about a thousand people, the SHL a little over 6000 while NLA is a bit over 7000 if we remove the covid part of last season, so empty is a bit harsh on the SHL. And a lot of the difference is due to Bern drawing the biggest crowds in europe at what 15-16k. Take them out and the average don't differ all that much(though the NL is still ahead), now they are of course part of the league so kudos to them and good on the NL but you make it sound like the SHL plays in front of a couple of the players parents and NLA draws soccer crowds which is unfair when most teams have pretty similar crowds in the two leagues. Doubt there’s much difference in total attendance either since the SHL carry two more teams.
Swiss teams are way richer but that has more to do with Switzerland being a richer country with better sponsor money and lower tax than some vast superiority in attendance. I don't know who has the better TV deal though, that will probably be the most crucial part of surviving Covid for teams.

Klasen had a higher ppg his first season in the NLA than in his last SHL year before that and was around ppg the majority of his years in Lugano, he clearly had a bad last season or two but no doubt he's a skilled player. And no doubt on a decline, he still does damage on the PP but 5on5 he's been very average in the SHL as well.
Wasn't Rödin's season in Davos after his two seasons in NA with nothing but injuries? Healthy he's a good player. He's only spent the last two seasons in the SHL btw.

Anyway I doubt anyone entering the Oilers prospect thread is interested in a SHL vs NL pissing contest, I mean the majority of the world don't even know Sweden and Switzerland are two different countries...
And the SHL being a stronger league is certainly not a hill I'm looking to die on, don't think the difference between the leagues is massive either way so it's absolutely open for interpretation, thus I'll move off the off topic now. Thanks for the back and forth!