Aerchon
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- Jul 20, 2011
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Lavoie reminds me of Neal more than Pouliot but I watched him in the WJC where he accepted a checking role and did it well.
Prospect Info: 2019-20 Oilers Prospect Thread II
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Lavoie reminds me of Neal more than Pouliot but I watched him in the WJC where he accepted a checking role and did it well.
Zaddy
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- Feb 8, 2013
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This isn't a new issue regarding Lavoie. It's the main reason why he wasn't ranked higher in the 2019 draft. HockeyProspect had his compete level rated as 4 (the absolute lowest on their grading scale) in their 2019 draft guide.
From their scouting report:
"To be at his best, he needs to be more involved in the play and his compete level needs to be upgraded. Lavoie is a bit of wild card in this draft, he has all the talent in the world but his lack of commitment is a concern"
“He has talent but the compete level is not good. “- NHL Scout, December, 2018
“A lot of his skill is individual skill. He doesn't see the ice well and didn't make guys around him better. He isn't good at all defensively but the hope is you could fix that.” - NHL Scout, April 2019
“His defensive game stinks. He’s good with the puck on his tape but even that stuff is all one on one stuff. He doesn't make many plays off the rush or show creativity.” - NHL Scout, April 2019
“He has tools but I don’t like the lack of compete so I'm guessing he’d be gone before I'd be willing to select him. I will give him props for a much stronger second half. All my live viewings were prior to February. I only saw him on video after that.” - HP Scout, Mark Edwards, May 2019
“His Memorial Cup performance was representative of his regular season, a couple of nice flashes here and there but some disappearing acts as well. One of the most frustrating players I have scouted in years. The talent is there but too many question marks come with it.- HP Scout, Jérôme Bérubé, June 2019
“Had two scouts mention him to me as one of their weaker interviews.”- HP Scout, Mark Edwards, June 2019
I'm not holding my breath on him becoming a good player.
Considering there is a lot of scoring in HockeyAllsvenskan, and Bouchard having 6 points in 12 games, is he struggling over there or are the penalties he's taking limiting his overall ice time and usage?
Aerchon
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- Jul 20, 2011
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It was said he is on a very bad team that struggles mightily to score. His points under the circumstances seem solid.
NA versus Euro hockey transition as well.
I think a bigger ice surface will probably be good for his development.
Bryanbryoil
Pray For Ukraine
- Sep 13, 2004
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He has a knack for scoring goals and has size and skill on his side. He is still young enough to be able to up his work rate if he wants to be a NHLer bad enough.
Senor Catface
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- Jul 25, 2006
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Well, that's certainly one side of the coin.
You also get:
"Lavoie has received criticism of his defensive game over the years but that has really improved this season. He plays his tenacious puck pursuit game in all three zones, backchecking and battling for pucks in his own end"
"I would like to see more grit in his game, but he is not afraid to get involved in all areas of the ice. I would like to see his skating improve a notch, but he certainly has the size and toolbox to be a good professional prospect." – Senior NHL QMJHL/OHL Scout
"While Lavoie is not a consistently physical player, he is not one to shy away from rough play." - Blaine Potvin
I'm not sure what the benefit is of only finding quotes that support one side or another of an argument like this.
My point remains. Junior players commonly struggle when faced with the realities of pro hockey. It's unwise to declare a player having heart/work ethic issues 8 games into a pro career when often that transformation to a pro hockey mentality hasn't even happened.
- Sep 29, 2016
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Tyler Benson and Pius Suter not in the lineup tonight for GCK Lions. Not sure what's going on but it's possible they'll play for ZSC Lions soon.
Zaddy
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You can get differing opinions on literally any hockey player in the world. I didn't just selectively post one quote, I posted a lot saying similar things and that support my own observations as well, showing that it clearly has substance. Does everyone agree? Of course not, but I do tend to trust HockeyProspect on most things concerning prospects. I know them well, I know how they work and I know that Mark talks to a ton of NHL scouts throughout the season as well.
But this is my entire point, it's NOT based on an eight game sample size. It's been this way throughout his junior career. It's not a new thing. And in my experience players who do have concerns about work ethic very rarely overcome it. There are some that do, absolutely, but I'd say a clear majority never has that light bulb moment where they realize they need to change how they approach the game. And the reports that he didn't interview well prior to the draft certainly doesn't help him in that regard as it would seem that he's either oblivious to his shortcomings or just isn't interested in changing. So I don't think my concern about his game is at all unfounded here.
ConnorMcMullet
#12 Colby Cave
- Jun 10, 2017
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I'm with Zaddy on Raphael Lavoie. His goal scoring ability is probably the best out of our prospects but I wouldn't bet on him becoming a top-6 forward in the NHL. His overall game will have to take a huge step forward.
That's partly why I like the Holloway pick for us this year. He has everything necessary to become an impact NHL forward, and while his upside may not be especially high, he has very few question marks, something that can not be said about the rest of our prospects. Lavoie might be limited by his compete and 2-way game, Benson's skating might hold him back, and McLeod's production might prevent him from being anything more than a 4th liner. Holloway doesn't have any concerns as pressing as those.
Honestly, I think Ty Tullio is just as good a bet as any of our other forward prospects (not named Holloway) to become an impact NHLer. But the OHL's plan to have a season without bodychecking concerns me.
That's partly why I like the Holloway pick for us this year. He has everything necessary to become an impact NHL forward, and while his upside may not be especially high, he has very few question marks, something that can not be said about the rest of our prospects. Lavoie might be limited by his compete and 2-way game, Benson's skating might hold him back, and McLeod's production might prevent him from being anything more than a 4th liner. Holloway doesn't have any concerns as pressing as those.
Honestly, I think Ty Tullio is just as good a bet as any of our other forward prospects (not named Holloway) to become an impact NHLer. But the OHL's plan to have a season without bodychecking concerns me.
Behind Enemy Lines
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I'd be more concerned about this skating which will need to improve. Lavoie has show to step up and produce in playoff and Memorial Cup competition which is a good benchmark for having the internal motor rev up. Showed well on the u20 team with compete level and attitude as a utility type player on the gold medal winning team. Both areas - skating and compete level - can be improved and regarding the latter I think the move to pro should help bring this out of the player.
At his size and early physical development, I imagine the player was able to 'coast' on raw size and strength against junior age competition. It may have bred some bad habits or at least shortcuts to playing. But I still target his skating as the attribute that will most have to improve to get to the NHL. No mistaking that Lavoie is a two - three year time horizon to see what's there in terms of NHL potential.
EDIT: He's got a strong skating stride in motion. Meaning some improvement in fast twitch start-up would help. The raw toolkit is impressive. I think the Neal comp made by someone might be a decent reference point.
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McDNicks17
Moderator
I've always been lower on Lavoie. I've compared him to Chiasson all the back to the draft, I think. With that said, I'm not too worried about his compete.
I don't think it's the end-all-be-all for wingers. As long it's average(and it is for him), it won't hold him back.
I don't think it's the end-all-be-all for wingers. As long it's average(and it is for him), it won't hold him back.
Zaddy
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Not sure I buy this argument. Pouliot played 625 games in the NHL, you don't do that if you have low hockey IQ. Was it elite? No, but neither is Lavoie's. Both are big, skilled guys who can skate but have consistency issues.
Stud Muffin
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McDNicks17
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Rasanen had another two points yesterday.
Up to 5 points in 7 games.
Up to 5 points in 7 games.
snipes
How cold? I’m ice cold.
- Dec 28, 2015
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I held out for Apples for a while. Kind of gave up in the kid a little bit but hoping he can make it one day.
Liked his play internationally for Finland when he was younger. Always came across to me as a high IQ, two way responsible player.
Upside is limited but he could be an okay bottom 6er one day.
ConnorMcMullet
#12 Colby Cave
- Jun 10, 2017
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Two of our Allsvenskan prospects scored late to tie it up for their respective teams today.
Jeremias Lindewall, our 7th rounder from this draft, scored his 1st career Allsvenskan goal with 2:26 remaining in the 3rd, forcing overtime. That is also his first career goal playing against men.
Raphael Lavoie scored his 6th of the season with just 1:38 to go in regulation, knotting the score at 2 apiece. He also added an assist on the team's opening goal. Lavoie has a statline of 6-3-9 in 10 GP, leading his team in goals (next highest has 3) and points (next highest has 6).
Jeremias Lindewall, our 7th rounder from this draft, scored his 1st career Allsvenskan goal with 2:26 remaining in the 3rd, forcing overtime. That is also his first career goal playing against men.
Raphael Lavoie scored his 6th of the season with just 1:38 to go in regulation, knotting the score at 2 apiece. He also added an assist on the team's opening goal. Lavoie has a statline of 6-3-9 in 10 GP, leading his team in goals (next highest has 3) and points (next highest has 6).
Tobias Kahun
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- Oct 3, 2017
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Good start to his pro career by Lavoie
Giggleplex
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Sounds like a bit of a one-man show from Lavoie. His team must be really bad.
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