GDT: 2019-20 GM#3 LA Kings vs Vancouver Canucks @7:00pm 10/9/19

crassbonanza

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Sep 28, 2017
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If you don't understand why the first and third goals were directly Kovalchuks fault, you might need to brush up on the ol' books.

Maybe I do, but you were the one claiming that there were 3 goals directly attributed to his lazy play and now you are saying that I am an idiot that I don't recognize that there are 2 goals directly attributed to his lazy play. Seems to be a case of you moving the goal posts here.

The effort on the first was pathetic. Completely pathetic. Everybody and their brother knows whats happening on that play, all he has to do is lean in and counterpinch. He just lazily waved at the puck without making any effort to tie up his man. Thats winger 101. His role there is to prevent the pinch, tie up the puck, win a battle and get the puck out of the zone. Everybody on the ice knows what is supposed to happen there and is caught off guard by his lack of discipline.

Every winger and there brother knows how to play that, be open for a pass on the side wall. No winger is expecting the pass to be deflected and that caught him off guard. I don't think any winger expecting a breakout pass is expected to counter pinch, because you expect the pass to come to your stick. He has none of those roles in that play, seriously that is striaght out of the old Sutter play book. The winger on the half wall who received the pass from a defneseman and has the option to shoot the puck to the streaking center or carry it without pressure. The only difference is the puck was deflected which broke up that play. His job is not to tie up the puck, not sure what books you have been reading, but I have never heard of a breakout that relies on the winger receiving a breakout pass and proceeding to "tie up the puck".

The third goal was due to a turnover up ice where lazy Kovalchuk is just standing waiting to be fed a puck and didn't notice or care that Martinez was moving up ice. All he has to do is take three strides to cover for him, as all wingers are taught, and there is no outnumbered attack. It has nothing to do with the end of the play and not catching up, it was poor, lazy play that created it. Martinez is counting on Kovalchuk to cover for him, its why he takes that risk in the first place.

Kovalchuk was waiting for an offensive feed and that is a problem? Carter was a already back on defense as a forward, so Martinez's spot was already accounted for in this scenario. Sometimes bounces happen and sometimes mistakes are made, even if his role was to move back and be a 3rd defenseman you can't just say that is attributed to lazy play. Watch him chugging back on this goal, he was putting a lot of effort in to back check. He started from the slot, so those "3 strides seems like an odd interpretation. Beyond that, he is an offensive player and the Kings are down 3 in the 3rd period, his job is not to be overly defensive.
 

kingsboy11

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The first 2 games there were some positives about their play despite their many deficiencies. Tonight, however, was all about their deficiencies. When they gave up those first 2 goals in the first 5 minutes, they reverted back to how they played last season. No structure to their game, no fight and gave up because they knew they weren't going to come back. They let a team who only scored 2 goals in their first 2 games put up an 8 spot on them. That's embarrassing regardless if you knew our defense was bad. They let Vancouver bully them tonight and that's not a good look. I'm not expecting McLellan magically fix this team overnight, but I didn't expect them to give up 17 goals over 3 games.

I'm going to agree with others that Bjornfot would probably be best served spending the rest of the season in Sweden. He got schooled by JT Miller earlier in the game and has seen his ice time decreased over the last couple of games. They're probably waiting for Forbort to get back healthy, but I don't think its good for a defenseman like him to subject to these kind of nights.
 

Statto

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My issue is why Quick is still considered the undisputed starter. Second stringers have played better than him and he's been bad. I don't understand why they don't make it clear that Quicks position as starter is up for grabs. Because it should be.
Is he? TM started the year rotating. Let’s wait and see what he does the next 2 games and as the season evolves.

As for on here I’m not sure that’s true either. I’d be fine with Campbell playing the majority of games, I’m sure most would. Quick needs to play though if we have any hope of moving him. He needs to play enough to find some sort of rhythm and have someone want him, or else he goes nowhere. All this talk of retaining salary etc is fantasy. The only way he goes anywhere as things are right now is of we add something we don’t want to add.
 

Sol

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Jun 30, 2017
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Out of line. Debate his game all you want, but the lack of respect is cheap after what he’s done for this team. His best mag not be what we want, but we can’t question his commitment.

What so you'd rather perform like shit for pride rather than optimize your chances at winning a game? Sounds like youre more interested in feelings rather than performance. It's not disrespect to say that he's not good, it's a fact. The Kings are stuck with the Mike Richards contract because of "respect" for his prior performance when it was obvious he was done. Hate crap like this.
 
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Statto

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The lack of character is a big worry, that’s enough of a reason to send Björnfot back. I thought the D was bad but at this point you start to think Phaneuf could improve this lot.... nah, I’m being silly now.

I’m not even sure I’d want to expose Peterson to this D. I’d rather have Quick hung out to dry than our rookie future No1.

But I do like the comments from TM, he clearly was less than impressed.
 

KingsFan7824

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My issue is why Quick is still considered the undisputed starter. Second stringers have played better than him and he's been bad. I don't understand why they don't make it clear that Quicks position as starter is up for grabs. Because it should be.

It's the $7m he's making this year. He is still tied for the 4th highest paid goalie in the league. The team isn't good, from top to bottom they know they aren't good, and if they have to pay out $7m to a guy, he's going to get to play. There is still more than enough time for another goalie to take Quick's job, because he's not going anywhere. Unless he retires, or they buy him out. Those are the only options.

matt roy is not an nhl defenseman

He's a cheap warm body. This year was written off before it started, and guys like Roy are there simply to buy time. If any of them, Roy, Walker, MacD, etc, end up becoming a legit player, that's only a plus. If they're going to be bad anyway, Matt Roy is the right option, because nobody cares about him. He's not a real prospect. If he burns out, throw him out with the rest of the garbage over the next few years.

13 goals allowed in two starts for Quick. Going to be tough to find a team that will be interested in giving up assets for him.

If he had 2 GA right now, that would still be the case. He was just signed for too many years. It made sense to try and cheat the cap at the time, but now is when it hurts. The 10 years basically locked him in as a King for life. Good or bad.

Assets for Quick?! Only hope is to trade bad contract for bad contract type deal. That's why I had suggested Cory Schneider.

What does that do for either team? Gaborik for Phaneuf made sense, because Gaborik was never expected to play much in Ottawa, and the Kings could never buy him out, since he was always hurt. The Kings would save a couple million overall by getting Schneider, but he also has a NTC of some kind. Why would he up his life, only to come here and be on a bad team, and be challenged by other goalies for playing time? Blake might even have to add something because of the extra year for Quick. It might be easier to buy Schnieder out than it would be to do so with Quick. What are the Devils getting out of the deal?

If it's just about getting rid of Quick, buy him out in June.

More importantly, you can't tolerate his BS when you are trying to change a losing culture with impressionable kids breaking into the league. It was a terrible, terrible signing for a variety of reasons.

They weren't trying to change a culture when they signed him. I would actually doubt that he's any sort of bad influence. The guy does work his ass off, he's just his own thing. Tell the kids to watch him work out, but not do what he does on the ice, because nobody else is Ilya Kovalchuk. Not that he can do what he did when he was 25, but none of the young guys on the team are nearly as talented as IK, even today.

17 goals against in three games is a little tough to swallow when the Kings over the past decade have been such a strong defense team. It's a transition I understand that, but I am not happy with the pond hockey movement. It's going to be ugly for years.

They don't have the players they used to have, and they can't do what they used to do. The Kings used to get away with a lot of interference. Those plays actually get called now at a much higher rate. It's been a while since they were really strong defensively. Giving up few goals, and being solid defensively, aren't necessarily always the same thing. They sort outscored their problems going back to the 2014 playoffs.

The Kovalchuk signing was utter desperation by Robitaille and Blake.

If they were dead set on doing something at the time, at least it ended up as this signing, and not the trade with Montreal. Sometimes things do work out for the better.

One frustrating thing about the Kings is they are not emotionally involved in the games anymore. I hope TM finds a way to bring that out in them.

I'm sure the last 5 years have worn down many on the team. It's been tough enough for us fans, they're the ones actually going through all this. Plus when management has pretty clearly said that the core of this team can no longer compete, or at least be the driving force behind competing, how much can old guys that used to win really be into it? If you put yourself in their shoes, or skates, imagine having to come to work every day with that hanging over everything? I would say that's one of the major reasons why teams don't tend to voluntarily rebuild. The games are coming, you have to play them, and you'd like to have that winning mentality. If circumstances force you to rebuild, which is when most if not all teams start the process, then there's not much to be done. That tanking mindset though, where the present isn't important, chips away at a team. It has to. They're human beings.
 

Statto

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What so you'd rather perform like **** for pride rather than optimize your chances at winning a game? Sounds like youre more interested in feelings rather than performance. It's not disrespect to say that he's not good, it's a fact. The Kings are stuck with the Mike Richards contract because of "respect" for his prior performance when it was obvious he was done. Hate crap like this.
No, I object to the insult. I agree his play is worthy of riding the pine, but I object to insults directed at someone giving their best. That’s not Quick specific, I always object to it regardless of who we are talking about.

It’s not about “feelings”, I’m sure Quick can cuddle his Conn Smythe if you’ve upset him. It’s simply wrong.
 

KingsFan7824

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I'm going to agree with others that Bjornfot would probably be best served spending the rest of the season in Sweden. He got schooled by JT Miller earlier in the game and has seen his ice time decreased over the last couple of games. They're probably waiting for Forbort to get back healthy, but I don't think its good for a defenseman like him to subject to these kind of nights.

They have more than enough defensemen, they don't have to wait for Forbort. They're at 8 on the roster as it is, without Forbort, and TM has said he'd rather have 2 extra players, not 3. Bjornfot was the big story from camp, and they rewarded him with a spot, like most people wanted. They have up to 9 games to play him, and the next 5 games are at home, where they can match things up a little more. I'm sure he'll be back in Sweden before the end of the month.
 

Albi

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Nov 24, 2004
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Well, I guess we are back on track.

I don’t understand why so many people is pissed off, there’s nothing to be shocked about. This year we need another lottery pick and Blake must trade for others, the draft is deep. I hate to see Vancouver bury us under 8 goals, but this is the team we have, McLellan isn’t Gandalf.

Embrace teh suck
 
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SettlementRichie10

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Bjornfot needs to be far away from this dumpster fire. Makes me glad that none of Turcotte, Kupari, or Kaliyev were ready this year. Keep the kids far away from this dumpster fire. Plus, Bjornfot clearly isn’t ready for the NHL, anyway. If we had anything close to a playoff caliber blue line, Bjornfot would have never even been in the equation.
 
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Statto

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I’m not ready to say Björnfot should definitely go back, not yet. Anyone not expecting quite a few score lines like that, especially early on was very naive. The disappointing thing was the fact we quit. If that’s going to be the norm then absolutely he must go back.

If he improves and adapts over the next stretch of games AND the team competes then I think his development would be best served in the NHL. However both things have to happen. The results in of themselves won’t be a problem but if you’re surrounded by that level of mental strength no matter how strong your mind is it will eventually affect you.

If the team is going to fold like that on a nightly basis I’d keep all the kids well away from it. Maybe cherry pick the odd game to give them some exposure but not much more.

I’d go as far as waiving a vet deemed to be a problem and bury the contract in the AHL and hope they don’t report. Some guys have a NMC but they all don’t, and this sort of problem is more than one player. I also hope that TM changes the letters once he’s had a chance to evaluate things fully.
 

Pandaman11

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How much longer before someone like Campbell or Petersen becomes a REAL chance at the starter's role??
 

KingsHockey24

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Aug 1, 2013
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Send Quick to the AHL and leave him there the rest of his career.

Roll with Campbell and Peterson.
 

lumbergh

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Jan 8, 2007
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He is the NHL equivalent of a collegiate option quarterback. He has no deception to his game, he just holds it until he draws defenders to him so he can dish it to players moving into that new open space.

That creates two problems: everyone knows Kopitar has never looked anyone off, so they have stopped pressuring him, and even when they do, no King moves into those spaces.
Might want to review the OT goal by Doughty from two days ago.
 

Telos

In Gavrikov We Must Trust
Aug 16, 2008
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Quick definitely needs to be limited to 25 starts. Bjornfot should really go back at his 9 game mark. He looks good but is definitely a little behind physically, and he should be exposed to this for a whole season. He is going to get injured or his growth will be stunted as a 5-6 defenseman.
 

YP44

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Jan 30, 2012
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Yuck, bury that f***ing tape.

Not much to diagnose. Game was deplorable defensively. I imagine we will be saying this alot.
 

Fat Elvis

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AMart was "Road Apples"!

IK is exciting when he's scoring. He's a tire fire when he's not.

Carter is done.

Quick shouldn't be the starter right now.

My guy Bjornfot should go home by the end of next week. He's going to be a good one, just needs a little more baking time.

Walker isn't bad. He can stay. Hutton too. Amadio too

I hoped this wouldn't be a long season, and I believe there's better days ahead. But 8-2 is inexcusable. Brutal effort. Thumbs down
 

Raccoon Jesus

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Oct 30, 2008
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People are ignoring two elephants in the room:

1. Campbell was ass in the preseason and had similar issues as Quick vs. Calgary yet the goaltending hyperanalysis disappears when he's involved (Edit: and that's with a much better team effort, night and day between what Campbell has played behind and what Quick has played behind);

2. It's only been three games and McLellan has shown every indication that he's not just going to hand the #1 job to anyone, not sure where this Quick-is-the-default-starter narrative comes from. There are 79 games left ffs.
 

YP44

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Jan 30, 2012
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People are ignoring two elephants in the room:

1. Campbell was ass in the preseason and had similar issues as Quick vs. Calgary yet the goaltending hyperanalysis disappears when he's involved (Edit: and that's with a much better team effort, night and day between what Campbell has played behind and what Quick has played behind);

2. It's only been three games and McLellan has shown every indication that he's not just going to hand the #1 job to anyone, not sure where this Quick-is-the-default-starter narrative comes from. There are 79 games left ffs.

I agree with you but I think you try and work with quick off ice to find his game before putting him in again.
 

tny760

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Mar 12, 2017
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The third goal was due to a turnover up ice where lazy Kovalchuk is just standing waiting to be fed a puck and didn't notice or care that Martinez was moving up ice. All he has to do is take three strides to cover for him, as all wingers are taught, and there is no outnumbered attack. It has nothing to do with the end of the play and not catching up, it was poor, lazy play that created it. Martinez is counting on Kovalchuk to cover for him, its why he takes that risk in the first place.

lest we forget that this all started because martinez, behind the opponent's net, decides that the play is a blind backhand pass up the middle..........................
 

Ollie Weeks

the sea does not dream of you
Feb 28, 2008
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People are ignoring two elephants in the room:

1. Campbell was ass in the preseason and had similar issues as Quick vs. Calgary yet the goaltending hyperanalysis disappears when he's involved (Edit: and that's with a much better team effort, night and day between what Campbell has played behind and what Quick has played behind);

2. It's only been three games and McLellan has shown every indication that he's not just going to hand the #1 job to anyone, not sure where this Quick-is-the-default-starter narrative comes from. There are 79 games left ffs.

Yeah I honestly have no faith in either goalie right now until I see otherwise. I think it’ll be close to 50/50 this year.

Also, its a bad team, no argument there, but this was on the end of a back to back 3 games into the season, when a lot of teams are going to throw out clunkers. Its really hard to gauge how bad of a team it truly is based off the sample size.

So far I am happy with TM, his job right now is to find personnel that have a future here and get the squad trending as close to the Calgary game level as he can for the rest of the season. The latter is probably a doomed effort.

Grundstrom looked pretty good in his debut, btw. I like him and Toffoli together.
 
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SettlementRichie10

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May 6, 2012
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I personally don’t feel like you can just send a player like Quick to the AHL and bury him. He’s done too much for this franchise. He’s a made man.

If we were a contender, sure, you gotta do what you gotta do. But we’re not. Quick may not be valuable on the ice anymore, but he’s still Jon Quick, and he can still teach the kids a lot about being a true competitor.

As long as we’re rebuilding, keep Quick in the NHL and give him 20-30 starts a year to finish out his contract.
 

fivehole32

Kicking rebounds to the slot
Jan 11, 2015
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Well I figured they would be 1-2 on this road trip, just thought the losses would be in Edm and Cal. So right on schedule!!!!
 
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