Prospect Info: 2019 #11 - Victor Soderstrom, D

[XX]

I prefer a GM own their pick and be excited about it rather than distant or blasé. Makes it easier to criticize them when it goes wildly wrong, and easier to embrace them when it goes right. I think the 3rd overall comments are worthy of some side eye for sure, but it's Chayka's job on the line and he seems willing to staple himself to his picks like Hayton and Soderstrom.

Both picks show that Chayka weighs personality pershaps more than any other trait in his evaluations, and probably more than other teams. Understandable after dealing with basket cases like Perlini that had all the talent in the world but couldn't be bothered to use it.

 

[Name Nameless]

^that video to me is unequivocal. They had him third.

In quotes later he mentioned offering significantly more than 14th and 45th overall to acquire the 7th overall pick to acquire Soderstrom.

You don’t do that to get your sixth rated player.

They had him third.

Yeah. But he might still have shortened his evaluation a bit for the public, and, say, had him on a shared third with two other players, or something. And then when the two other went, been thinking of him as the third best player in the draft, and starting to move up.

But all in all, this know-it-all just agrees with the notion: now, this is moot. Let's take it from here.

 

[Foggy1097]

I prefer a GM own their pick and be excited about it rather than distant or blasé. Makes it easier to criticize them when it goes wildly wrong, and easier to embrace them when it goes right. I think the 3rd overall comments are worthy of some side eye for sure, but it's Chayka's job on the line and he seems willing to staple himself to his picks like Hayton and Soderstrom.

Both picks show that Chayka weighs personality pershaps more than any other trait in his evaluations, and probably more than other teams. Understandable after dealing with basket cases like Perlini that had all the talent in the world but couldn't be bothered to use it.

I prefer a GM own their pick and be excited about it rather than distant or blasé. Makes it easier to criticize them when it goes wildly wrong, and easier to embrace them when it goes right. I think the 3rd overall comments are worthy of some side eye for sure, but it's Chayka's job on the line and he seems willing to staple himself to his picks like Hayton and Soderstrom.

Both picks show that Chayka weighs personality pershaps more than any other trait in his evaluations, and probably more than other teams. Understandable after dealing with basket cases like Perlini that had all the talent in the world but couldn't be bothered to use it.

Yeah and I think he also places a higher emphasis than most on not just hockey IQ, but IQ in general. He wants smart people...players that are coachable, adaptable, able to learn and process well. POJ, Hayton, Soderstrom, even Keller and Chych to maybe a lesser extent, are all smart kids. They’re competitive and they learn and process information well. It’s smart by Chayka if you ask me. The Patriots have taken that approach forever and it seems to work for them. They don’t necessarily have the most talented guys all the time but they are good at identifying smart people.

 

[rt]

Yeah. But he might still have shortened his evaluation a bit for the public, and, say, had him on a shared third with two other players, or something. And then when the two other went, been thinking of him as the third best player in the draft, and starting to move up.

But all in all, this know-it-all just agrees with the notion: now, this is moot. Let's take it from here.

The theory of “top three outside of the top five” was pretty much inane, in my opinion. Doesn’t make any logical sense of any kind. I’ll concede that a multiple player tie for 3rd could be conceived of from a logical standpoint. It REALLY suffers through the lens likelihood however. I can’t imagine these guys have three-way-ties in their top five. We’re talking about an NHL front-office. That’s the kind of crap I do as a fan. I don’t believe for a second that really happens.

 

[Kaizen]

He has already signed his ELC, and for less than Broberg who was drafted 3 spots higher. Not bad for having zero negotiating power.

Timing is everything Jake - how is relevant that he has already signed his ELC? He hadn't at the time the comment was made. And you'll have to explain to me how signing someone for less than a player picked ahead of them demonstrates having negotiating power.

Do you really think other GM's give a fiddlers you know what, where Chayka had Soderstom on their board. I don't think so.

Once the picks have been made I agree other GM's don't give a shit where Chayka had Soderstrom ranked. My loose analogy to playing poker was not intended to reference GMs and their thoughts - my bad.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I agree with Arty. Chayka is inexperienced and felt a need to justify his trade. A more experienced GM would have let the press chatter stand without comment.

I don't buy this interpretation at all. If anything, Chayka was bragging about it because of his complete confidence in his assessment of the player. Same thing he did with Hayton. He is absolutely, 100% convinced that he got the third-best player in the draft. Has nothing to do with insecurity - I don't know a less insecure guy in hockey than John Chakya, to be honest. I really believe the guy thinks he has everything figured out way better than everyone else.

Now, whether anyone thinks this is a good thing is definitely up to the individual, but that's what I've seen out of the guy.

 

[rt]

I don't buy this interpretation at all. If anything, Chayka was bragging about it because of his complete confidence in his assessment of the player. Same thing he did with Hayton. He is absolutely, 100% convinced that he got the third-best player in the draft. Has nothing to do with insecurity - I don't know a less insecure guy in hockey than John Chakya, to be honest. I really believe the guy thinks he has everything figured out way better than everyone else.

Now, whether anyone thinks this is a good thing is definitely up to the individual, but that's what I've seen out of the guy.

Agreed. Like @Grimes said will “Ice Town Cost Ice Clown his Town Crown?” That remains to be seen. Maybe Chayka is right. Maybe he’s as good as he thinks he is. We don’t know yet. Guy definitely does not know how to hedge a bet. He’s definitely got a “burn the boats” approach to his career.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

But wouldn't it be great if he was right? We haven't even been a mediocre drafting team, we've been flat out bad...he couldn't do any worse than Maloney/Gretzky or Maloney/Tippett.

 

[Kaizen]

We can all agree on that.

 

[_Del_]

But wouldn't it be great if he was right?

It'd be great.

Given that he missed his evaluation on guys he already had and saw everyday, I think it's pretty unlikely. I think he has a mould for players and evaluates off that narrow definition. Anything not in that box he has no use for. That's a good way to miss out on talent.

 

[XX]

It'd be great.

Given that he missed his evaluation on guys he already had and saw everyday, I think it's pretty unlikely. I think he has a mould for players and evaluates off that narrow definition. Anything not in that box he has no use for. That's a good way to miss out on talent.

Schmaltz has historically had all the same problems Strome had before he left while being less of a natural center. That's how you end up traded for Dylan Strome. Every time Chayka looked at Strome, he probably mumbled to himself "You're no Mitch Marner." It's like he became obsessed with being ahead of the curve, to the detriment of good evaluation. Sometimes you just need to let it ride.

It will be interesting to see how he treats 'his guys' in comparison. Hayton already having a spot saved for him is fairly telling.

 

[Jakey53]

But wouldn't it be great if he was right? We haven't even been a mediocre drafting team, we've been flat out bad...he couldn't do any worse than Maloney/Gretzky or Maloney/Tippett.

That is correct, but to throw blame at them is wrong in my opinion. Remeber, we were in BK and the NHL didn't give us a budget to support a proper scouting dept. I thought our scouting has been much better the last three years. Chayka thought not and revamped the scouting dept. Time will tell.

 

[Jakey53]

It'd be great.

Given that he missed his evaluation on guys he already had and saw everyday, I think it's pretty unlikely. I think he has a mould for players and evaluates off that narrow definition. Anything not in that box he has no use for. That's a good way to miss out on talent.

Has there ever been a 3 OA in NHL history where that player was traded who has played less than 50 games for the said team? How can anyone evaluate a player who has played less than 50 games, getting 12 minutes a game?

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I’m honestly not sure how RT treats his players. I thought he was way too rigid in his ways the first year and rather remarkably adaptive in his second. The book on RT has yet to be written.

 

[hbk]

Schmaltz was targeted because he can play in traffic with speed.

Strome is a very good player who unfortunately plays a game that is largely cerebral. He’s a mediocre skater who likes to survey the situation before making a play. That’s fine. The issue he had here was under Tocchet’s system he wants the puck to be quickly moved up the ice. The issue with Strome wasn’t Strome. It’s that the style of game he’s suited to play isn’t the one we are trying to play. It’s a unsupported style that wasn’t a fit. Doesn’t mean he won’t continue to be successful elsewhere. Just means he would have always had the coach up his ass here.

 

[rt]

I think controlled entries are also important to Chayka/Tocchet. Which made Schmaltz attractive. Same for Kessel. I think controlled exits are something that are current group of D are pretty good at. It would be nice to keep the puck. Schmaltz and Kessel should help.

 

[cobra427]

Schmaltz was targeted because he can play in traffic with speed.

Strome is a very good player who unfortunately plays a game that is largely cerebral. He’s a mediocre skater who likes to survey the situation before making a play. That’s fine. The issue he had here was under Tocchet’s system he wants the puck to be quickly moved up the ice. The issue with Strome wasn’t Strome. It’s that the style of game he’s suited to play isn’t the one we are trying to play. It’s a unsupported style that wasn’t a fit. Doesn’t mean he won’t continue to be successful elsewhere. Just means he would have always had the coach up his ass here.

I don't believe he was a bad fit or cerebral. What about Domi? Was he not a fit for the system too? I think Strome is being propped up a little in Chicago and benefitting from cat/kane/PP time, but he still had over 50 points. Chicago lead the NHL in GAA, so Strome's poor play away from the puck was likely tolerated.

But still, Tocc either misused both or Chayka misevaluated both of them, how else could you look at the trades at this point? I hope Schmaltz/kessel kill it and we make the playoffs. Our D and goal tending is much better then Chicago's, so we have a better chance then they do anyway.

 

[hbk]

I don't believe he was a bad fit or cerebral. What about Domi? Was he not a fit for the system too? I think Strome is being propped up a little in Chicago and benefitting from cat/kane/PP time, but he still had over 50 points. Chicago lead the NHL in GAA, so Strome's poor play away from the puck was likely tolerated.

But still, Tocc either misused both or Chayka misevaluated both of them, how else could you look at the trades at this point? I hope Schmaltz/kessel kill it and we make the playoffs. Our D and goal tending is much better then Chicago's, so we have a better chance then they do anyway.

Domi asked to be traded (source apparently is Craig Morgan). Coyotes were making the best of a bad situation to avoid a Turris scenario.

Strome can produce in the right situation. The Chicago stats reflect this. That situation didn’t exist in Arizona based on how this organization now wants to play. It’s a fit issue. Not an attack on Strome’s skill.

Two completely different circumstances in terms of motivations to move on from the player.

 

[RemoAZ]

I disagree. Both were misused. Hell, they played well together. Both should have been on scoring lines. Anybody watching saw how much better Strome looked on the few chances he had to run shifts with Keller. They wanted both players gone for whatever reason and didn't do anything to help them thrive or even prop them up for trades. Just bad asset management at the very minimum.

At least we have a chance to salvage a couple good years of Kessel. Schmaltz remains to be seen. The way the Chicago fans disliked him worries me. He will have the advantage of getting every shot to succeed unlike Strome.

 

[LuckyNumber11]

Isn't being misused and not fitting into the system the same exact thing just spinning it towards who you want to blame?

 

[Jakey53]

I disagree. Both were misused. Hell, they played well together. Both should have been on scoring lines. Anybody watching saw how much better Strome looked on the few chances he had to run shifts with Keller. They wanted both players gone for whatever reason and didn't do anything to help them thrive or even prop them up for trades. Just bad asset management at the very minimum.

At least we have a chance to salvage a couple good years of Kessel. Schmaltz remains to be seen. The way the Chicago fans disliked him worries me. He will have the advantage of getting every shot to succeed unlike Strome.

I'm not sure if Domi was misused. He played with what talent we had. We tried him at C which was a disaster. He received good TOI. He just did not produce with the opportunity he had. I think Domi was hurt because he thought he was going to be "the man" in Arizona, and when Keller came in and outplayed him, he got his panties in a knot. I was not sad to see Domi go. Strome on the other hand was misused from the get go.

 

[Jakey53]

Schmaltz was targeted because he can play in traffic with speed.

Strome is a very good player who unfortunately plays a game that is largely cerebral. He’s a mediocre skater who likes to survey the situation before making a play. That’s fine. The issue he had here was under Tocchet’s system he wants the puck to be quickly moved up the ice. The issue with Strome wasn’t Strome. It’s that the style of game he’s suited to play isn’t the one we are trying to play. It’s a unsupported style that wasn’t a fit. Doesn’t mean he won’t continue to be successful elsewhere. Just means he would have always had the coach up his ass here.

So, are you saying that Chicago doesn't want to move the puck quickly, or play up tempo. Strome played with Kane and DeBrincat who are both fast and productive players and Strome fit right in, same as he did here with Domi. RT was the problem. He is stubborn to a point of ridiculous. He kept on playing Stepan and Panik on the PP where they never produced all year. If I was Strome sitting on the bench and knowing what I could contribute but was never asked would leave me a bit discouraged, especially when you see a guy like Cousins get a chance to play top line minutes.

 

[hbk]

So, are you saying that Chicago doesn't want to move the puck quickly, or play up tempo. Strome played with Kane and DeBrincat who are both fast and productive players and Strome fit right in, same as he did here with Domi. RT was the problem. He is stubborn to a point of ridiculous. He kept on playing Stepan and Panik on the PP where they never produced all year. If I was Strome sitting on the bench and knowing what I could contribute but was never asked would leave me a bit discouraged, especially when you see a guy like Cousins get a chance to play top line minutes.

Oh check my post history on Tocchet. Before the trade I made several references to his inability to coach the players he had. Instead he of forced a system that didn’t fit the roster. The Strome trade was all about finding a better fit for Tocchet.

 

[RemoAZ]

Isn't being misused and not fitting into the system the same exact thing just spinning it towards who you want to blame?

Absolutely not. Trying to make Strome a 4th line center isn't making him fit the system. It's just stupid. They didn't do that when he was in Tucson. Only at the NHL level. He did great playing in the system on an offensive line in Tucson. They just didn't like him. Glad the kid is proving them wrong and hopefully they at least learned something from the fiasco.

 

[Jakey53]

Oh check my post history on Tocchet. Before the trade I made several references to his inability to coach the players he had. Instead he of forced a system that didn’t fit the roster. The Strome trade was all about finding a better fit for Tocchet.

Strome can fit the up tempo in Chicago but can't do it here? They never gave Strome a chance, or should I say RT never gave him a chance, or maybe he doesn't have the knowledge how to utilize such player. How do you evaluate a player after 48 games? I believe Strome is the first 3OA pick to be traded having played less than 50 games for the team that drafted him. First one in NHL history, or at least the last twenty years. Speaking of system, Strome and Domi did just fine to end the year two years ago. You have to give these kids a chance and blaming it on "the system" is hog wash.