Blue Jays GDT: 2018 v3| Next: Wed, Sept 5| vs TB| 7pm ET/4pm PT | Glasnow vs Sanchez

[Del Preston]

I'm liking the kid's moustache.

 

[Epictetus]

He seemed to get 2 strikes on hitters, then struggle to put them away.

 

[Cloned]

Looks like SRF is going to suffer from Borucki syndrome. No run support.

 

[canucksfan]

Jansen was looked pretty good behind the plate.

 

[Battle Lin]

if he refines and controls his stuff better, can be a 4-5 guy, like a few other guys, which we do need, bottom of the order arms are good to have, dont see stuff that will make him more than a 3

 

[Cloned]

Did Pat just say Escobar is one of the best hitters in baseball? I know he qualified it, but no amount of qualifying makes that statement valid.

 

[canucksfan]

That was a sweet double play

 

[The Nemesis]

Did Pat just say Escobar is one of the best hitters in baseball? I know he qualified it, but no amount of qualifying makes that statement valid.

But Ned Yost made him the leadoff hitter during their WS year. So it must be true!

 

[Cloned]

Something about the Blue Jays and their young catchers having good nights when they debut.

 

[The Nemesis]

Sid Sixeiro's brother has a job a sportsnet?

lolnepotism.

 

[nilan30]

I don't get sick of the Raptors broadcasters. Nor do I with the Sharks. Yes it's half the # of games, but it doesn't take nearly that long for Buck and Pat to grate on my nerves

And it's not about what they talk about with gaps in the action. It's specifically the things that tend to get harped at on here, which led to the creation of the drinking game:

1) Their tendency to staunchly resist any kind of new advances or changes in how the game is played or analyzed (anti-stats (except the ones they like, such as wins) bias, dislike of shifts, constant complaints about pitch counts, smallball, etc) This is the biggest one and it's getting worse as time goes on.

2) the empty, mean-nothing bits of non-analysis (calling people "a baseball player", he's "a winner", and other baseless circular arguments that don't really say anything of value)

3) the fact that they often seem to be confused by, mistaken about, or oblivious to whatever's happening on the field far more often than they should (example, the other day someone (I think Biagini?) gave up a HR and Tabler was breaking it down. Over the multiple replays he kept going on and on about how it was a 4-seam fastball left up and talked about what the 4-seamer behaves like and how that contributed to the HR and so forth even though multiple replays showed clearly that it was a 2-seamer. Something that even this non-baseball-player who's sitting in a chair watching the game on TV picked up on and understood). This also extends to the fact that Buck has now been a play-by-play guy for however many years it's been and he still can't tell whether a ball is going to be a HR or a weak fly-out that dies 15 feet before the warning track.

4) The times they tend to repeat one another's points as if they aren't listening to each other or even actually having a conversation ("The last time X hit a home run was <date>", 30 seconds later from Tabler: "You know it's been since <date> that X has gone without a home run."


Buck was good as a color guy in his TSN days, but he's not meant for play-by-play. I would kill for Dan & Siddall to partner for an entire season. I loved or liked most of the earlier color guys they've had at various points in the intervening years between Dan & Buck on TSN and now (even Darren Fletcher. who, in spite of my earlier invocation of his name in terms of broadcasting nadir, was actually entertaining). The problem we have right now is that we have a color guy who wants to chat about stuff doing play-by-play and a color guy who doesn't know what's going on providing nothing to color the broadcast.

Just as a secondary example, when they had the guys in the booth yesterady visiting, Winfield knew well enough to be quiet when action was happening so that the other two could call the play, and instead of Buck & Pat picking up on that, it went dead silent.

Is it perhaps a slightly overblown concern? Yeah. Does it ruin my desire to watch Blue Jays games? not really. Half the time I try not to listen too hard to the commentary anyway. But I feel like they could very easily do better.

Fair enough and good points most of which I do agree with. I guess for me it comes down to mainly the sound of the person doing the play by play and I think Buck's pretty good at that part. A lot of commentators could be describing grass grow for the level of excitement they speak with. As you said he is probably meant more for the colour position as is typical with former players. Most play-by-play guys are broadcasting school graduates not former players/coaches etc. I do think the fact that the Jays are struggling doesn't help the cause either. If they are leading the division or playing well people tend to not care as much about this.

Also, and this is an honest question, do many other broadcast teams really talk much about advanced stats? I haven't really noticed it much anywhere.

I guess I'm in the minority in liking Buck, but I also remember my favourite broadcast team was when Jon Miller and Joe Morgan used to do Sunday night baseball and everyone seemed to hate them for some reason haha. I'm just glad it's not Rod Black calling the Jays games

 

[The Nemesis]

Fair enough and good points most of which I do agree with. I guess for me it comes down to mainly the sound of the person doing the play by play and I think Buck's pretty good at that part. A lot of commentators could be describing grass grow for the level of excitement they speak with. As you said he is probably meant more for the colour position as is typical with former players. Most play-by-play guys are broadcasting school graduates not former players/coaches etc. I do think the fact that the Jays are struggling doesn't help the cause either. If they are leading the division or playing well people tend to not care as much about this.

Also, and this is an honest question, do many other broadcast teams really talk much about advanced stats? I haven't really noticed it much anywhere.

I guess I'm in the minority in liking Buck, but I also remember my favourite broadcast team was when Jon Miller and Joe Morgan used to do Sunday night baseball and everyone seemed to hate them for some reason haha. I'm just glad it's not Rod Black calling the Jays games

Most broadcasts don't necessarily use advanced stats any more than the Jays ones do (the beginner-tier type stats like OPS or even WHIP with small mentions and nod to something like WAR. Certainly not getting into the realm of wRC+ or FIP or anything particularly esoteric) but the issue I mostly have is that Buck and Pat will go out of their way to turn things into an anti-analytics/traditionalist screed. Like they'll talk about how the Blue Jays don't run/steal bases/play smallball and then go on about how it's analytics that ruin the game by saying don't do that (which isn't even entirely true). Or the graphics guys will show a slightly more complex statistical concept, and Pat will come back with "just tell me how many RBIs a guy has. That's the guy I want on my team. That's all you need to understand the best players."

It's not so much that I want a broadcast that uses analytics more. It's just that I want one that's understanding that they have a place in the modern game and that they aren't out to alienate the stat-minded fan, bias undecided fans against the new math before they even have a chance to see what it's about, or continue to prop up falsehoods or faulty methods of analysis like, for example, pitcher wins and RBIs. In both cases I've heard Buck/Pat explicitly acknowledge on broadcasts that they have very real shortcomings (the same shortcoming, in fact: that they rely too heavily on the contributions of players other than the one being measured that it becomes impossible to separate how much of that number is due to the player you're evaluating and how much of it is due to factors beyond the player's control, thus invalidating it as a way to judge the player's actual ability), but they continue to harp on how those are "better" than using all the fancy advanced stats. Basically it comes across as "I don't know/understand what the new stats are, so they must suck and I want to feel better about my knowledge by sticking to things I already know." I wouldn't care if they didn't use analytics all that much if they would just stop harping on how the game and its analysis was better in the 1980s when they played.

 

[Anthrax442]

Game start 8:45

 

[The Nemesis]

Fun fact:

In spite of hitting below the mendoza line for the season, Russ Martin has an OBP that is basically 70 points higher than Kevin Pillar this season and 30 points higher than Pillar's career best.

 

[The Nemesis]

Thanks for the awful flashbacks, Buck...

Emilio Bonifacio... So much hope. So much frustration.

 

[canucksfan]

Bad base running there from Granderson

 

[Canada4Gold]

Danny f***ing Jansen baby!!!!!

 

[BertCorbeau]

Mashed

Way to go kid!

 

[TootooTrain]

What a bomb! woooo!

 

[canucksfan]

That's sweet

 

[BertCorbeau]

Man the Jays laced all of those balls - only 1 goes for a hit but it's a big one

 

[nilan30]

Nice plays by Martin and Diaz back to back

 

[canucksfan]

Martin has a positive defensive rating at 3B

 

[The Nemesis]

Danny ****ing Jansen baby!!!!!

The legacy of catcher #9 lives on!

 

[canucksfan]

Control is off