WC: 2018 - Team Czech Republic

Discussion in 'International Tournaments' started by Maluk11, Feb 27, 2018.

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  1. Rexor

    Rexor Registered User

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    I don't think Faksa's game is particularly suited to big ice.
     
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  2. norma

    norma Registered User

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    oops i do not think about this. seems to be right...
     
  3. Maluk11

    Maluk11 Registered User

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    Calm game today. It's good we save some strentgh for other games. Plekanec finally get point, he deserve it. Hopefully Nestrašil is okay, he has somenthing with shoulder, but nothing broken at least.
     
  4. Jablkon

    Jablkon Registered User

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    Faksa will show up against Canada. But thats where we are, all our NHL guys like Palat, Hertl, Faksa are turning to be very good two ways. Kral spoke about elite offensive talent several years ago so there should be some system progress but I dont realy know whether there are some results. I just repeat myself here and you might not agree with that but only guy who speaks about true “playing” and playing sense is 80 years old Bukac.

    They all, including Gretzky, say its time of “skills” but all big players retaining this aspect of having sense for play and game and do things which others simply don’t do. Lets see what next draft will bring.

    When I look at NHL top ten, there are some guys who are about speed and skill but the rest are mostly exceptional players. I dont know who is closest to czech player equivalent. Giroux? Kopitar, Kessel? Giroux could be somebody like Patera :) but I dont see we produce types like him.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2018
  5. Retroglyphs

    Retroglyphs Registered User

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    After having watched all matches with those guys, I agree wholeheartedly with this. :nod:
     
  6. Pouliot

    Pouliot Registered User

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    I just think a country from the Big 6 shouldn't play with a loser's mentality. Is Russia really that much better? I'd say the difference between RUS and CZE is about equal to the difference between CZE and SUI. And it's worth noting that they only lost to Sweden by 1 goal.

    In the past 8 years, they have 5 semifinal appearances, including 2 bronze medals and a gold. Not amazing or anything, but clearly they can do some damage.
    In comparison, USA in the past 8 years missed the quarterfinals once! And has 3 semifinal appearances, including 2 bronze medals? Should USA play with a loser's mentality?
     
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  7. Jablkon

    Jablkon Registered User

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    This outside view is honestly tough pill to swallow. Winning and tourney mentality is one thing but that development is different and crucial chapter imo. You can not even continue forever with winning mentality when program just doesnt produce. If the gap between us and Russia is same as between CZ and Switzerland, its just sad.

    But that is a state of czech hockey. They didn't want help from outside and they did not even try to put together best persons from CZ. And that is where we are after 8 years since new management took in charge.

    We won Hlinka, got two 4th spots in WJC and brought Chytil, Necas and lets say Zadina as offensive talents. Maybe it is enough, maybe not but sure we dont get any info about it from association.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2018
  8. SoundAndFury

    SoundAndFury Registered User

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    Taking past 8 years is very convenient when the team in question hasn't won anything last 5 years, isn't it? Jablkon pretty much has it figured out - you can't continue with winner mentality forever because if you can't indeed win it just backfires on you leading into frustration and mental fatigue in general. And Czechs haven't won anything in 5 years. Maybe it's ok to be an underdog and celebrate unexpected success than to expect victories you can't achieve.

    USA sent a team of NHL castaways and college kids most of those years. Whatever mentality that is.
     
  9. Pouliot

    Pouliot Registered User

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    I see.

    Hopefully for them, they can one day get to a point where playing with a loser/winner’s mentality isn’t even a question anymore. I like the Czechs for some reason
     
  10. Maluk11

    Maluk11 Registered User

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    Rittich will be in net tommorow. Little changes in lineup on today practice. Plekanec back with Kubalík and Řepík, Hyka with Červenka and Faksa, Chytil - Horák - Nečas is new line. Rest is same.

    Nestrašil is feeling better, but probably won't play vs France.
     
  11. Voodoozz

    Voodoozz PensFlyersFan

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    Good. Kubalík-Plekanec-Řepík were pretty good together. I hope they'll be able to make a good line with Nečas, when he's feeling it he has that game changing potential in him. You always want to see that in a player.
     
  12. Jablkon

    Jablkon Registered User

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    yeah but we are still closer to first five nations than the rest is closer to us. We compete against them in EHT and we are not passengers there. We are more succesull in CHL than swiss teams despite they have all the talent at home. We still have around 60players in NHL/AHL and 20-30 in KHL. Thats, on the other hand smth that can't be ignored.

    We lack depth in terms of elite players and overall depth in Europe to reach WHC level. But compare to Switzerland and Slovakia, we are miles ahead.

    With czechs its not about winning mentality, its about our mind set up. We lost last three matches against Russia pretty clear. Still there was a strong voice it was coaches fault. And I definetely partly share this opinion. Maybe it wouldnt change much but we simply still do good in WHC and we didnt collapse in WC either because this is simpy who we are. You dont have to like our game or whatever but we were still one overtime from advance to playoffs.

    What you imply to say would basically deny our mental setup for this game which is strong here and I believe can not be somehow explained to others. Basically most of our guys in NHL step up in playoffs. This is who we are. We are not underdogs and we dont feel like that. Thats actually not a business of national team and not your bussiness. They dont have to put their heads down, asscociation should do best possible to restart development.

    We are not done and we won't be done. We are not Latvia or Belarus being in spin for 20 years. What you speaking about is just looser mentality.

    We have strong genofond here and strong legacy for this game. Thats something what you probably can not understand to.

    We never put our heads down, we just accept we have issues but it doesnt change our attitude. If you think that most of these other teams will have it easy against us, they wont, even if OEL should loose all his teeth there. We dont care. And it will be tougher for them soon.

    What I spoke about were gaps and mistakes to be world super power or to chase Finnland. because thats the standart what we measure here.

    I dont really care what they do in Germany or Switzerland because they do ****. Thats not about the money thats about how good as nation you are in this game. And we are still damned good.

    We are there and we will be there, thats how it is.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2018
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  13. joey16

    joey16 Registered User

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    OK, I did the work and searched for all the results at WHC of Czech Republic against teams from the TOP6 (or TOP5 because clearly we are the sixth) the last 5 years - so it's not so convenient for us. I found out that we played altogether 18 matches - we won 5 and lost 13. Yes, it's not so flattering. However also needs to be said that out of the 13 lost matches the opponent won 3 in OT/shootouts and 3 by one goal, 1 by 2 goals and 6 by 3 goals. It was never by more than 3 goals. We won 1 in the shootouts, 1 by 1 goal, 2 by 2 goals and 1 by 3 goals. Never won by more than 3 goals. We never medaled, made two semifinal appereances and managed to won the round-robin stage once.

    While the balance is clearly negative, it still at least shows that we really can do some damage and no opponent can take the win against us as a sure thing. I mean 6 of the losses were in the OT or GWS or by 1 goal. That means that the opponent could not be sure about the win till the very end. I am not saying that we are in a place we could favor ourselves in a match against stronger teams but to have a loser mentality in the Worlds - no, it is still not that bad to "kind of" give up on the game against a stronger opponent to save ourselves for the weaker ones. Even in these 5 years of drought we have never been truly crushed by any team. Also these are the years where the players born in 1989-1995 has started to be in their prime. And this group of players is maybe the worst period in terms of czech prospects. And yet we still hang on there and aren't a complete joke.

    I am not saying we're saved but havng the prospect depth of Necas, Chytil, Zadina, Chlapik, Kaut, Spacek, Hajek, Budik, Zboril, Hronek, Masin and some young guys already in the NHL - Pastrnak, Vrana, Zacha, Kase - that would be something almost impossible 5-6 years ago. Yes, still we have many many issues (the biggest one is a lack of quality defensemen and the association doesn't make the best they can IMO) and it will take a long journey before we truly catch the TOP5 and be a legit contender every year (which I agree we are not) but at the same time I don't think we are in the position where we play Russia and just tell ourselves OK, let's just give it a try.
     
  14. Czechboy

    Czechboy Registered User

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    Everything here is perfect... it could also be pointed out that we are in the Euro Hockey Tour every year and finish second, that we do get a team in the Spengler and we were one of the 6 REAL teams in the last World Cup. We are clearly Top 6 and there is a gap between 6 and 7 through 10.

    It's the elite talent (especially at D and net) that is our achilles heel right now. Something went wrong in development that either needs to change or, hopefully, has already changed and we'll see results soon. This draft looks to have 10 or so guys to be selected and the last draft does as well. U18's were a success, Junior A challenege was a success, U20's was a success and Hlinka was a success. We are doing well at all the Junior tournaments. It's probably been a decade since I could say we got to the Semi's all of them. Throw in the Olympics with a Semi, 2nd on EHT and 2 teams in the semi's at the Club Euro tournament that I can't remember the name of and a lot of arrows are pointing up. Plus, Necas, Chytil, Kaut and Zadina are all looking very promising. Pastrnak is only 21 as well.

    To put it a different way... our A team is not good enough right now to compete with the other Top 6 nations. However, we can field 3 different B teams that are all very good. I could very easily create a second team not using one player on this current squad that would be equally as good as this one and maybe even better. Neuvirth/Mrazek in net... Rutta, Kempny, Jerabek, Simek, Polak, Sustr on D... Palat, Hertl, Kovar, Sobotka, Zacha, Frolik, Voracek, Vrana, Simon, Nosek, Kase on forward. That is depth and we have that. Now show me Denmark's second team not using one guy here? Slovakia? Maybe the Swiss but it gets thin very quick for them IMO.

    We are a proud nation with a lot of success internationally. Things aren't perfect but we're closer to the Top 5 than the rest is to us.
     
  15. Jablkon

    Jablkon Registered User

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    Apologize, hope I didnt offend anybody, I respect every hockey school. But saying that you should turn your head to opponents underneath just destroy any competition whatssoever. Thats why swiss clubs or german clubs hire canadians, finns or swedes, not for example czechs.
     
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  16. Czechboy

    Czechboy Registered User

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    Swiss just got Fiala and Josi... glad we beat them before the reinforcements came!
     
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  17. Jablkon

    Jablkon Registered User

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    Not sure what you mean by "everything is perfect here" . I clearly dont think everything is perect. In fact I think its opposite. I dont even know what to think about WJC success. We are able to play quite an equal games against Russia, Finnland and even Sweden, which itself is big progress compare to 2010. But I am hesitate to call it success.

    In terms od depth, I am convinced its not there. Those you mentioned are all in NHL. Its about 30 players in NHL. But you can hardly built any competitive team from europlayers which quite strikes me. Ok, maybe when you put together guys like Jarusek,Klepis, Vondrka, Lenc etc. it would somehow work but there we would be underdogs on maybe Denmark level. And still we work with aspects which clearly those teams dont have. They dont have guys around stadiums who challenged Canada in 76 Canada Cup, they dont have Jagr on the bench etc.

    Just to make it clear, I dont think we are on level of Denmark, Germany, Slovakia, Switzerland by any means. If we fall there its only our mistake and we can not blame anybody just ourselfs for it. I just reacted to posters here implaying to say we are there despite you see tons of things on that hockey programs which they miss to get on our level.

    Back to depth. I am certain our only depth is somehow on wings. We dont have any on centers and Ds position. When somebody pointed here that our top 4th line is like Simon - Necas - Nosek, thats pretty bad imo in terms of global look on czech development. Team you mentioned is basically our A team.

    Czech players have mentality and work ethic which Soundsoffury can not probably evaluate. Kick them out from NHL they will be back through the smallest window in the arena. Thats simply great. But,on the other hand, Simek, Kempny, Rutta will be all at best 4th Ds. There is nobody for top pairing level and honestly I dont think Hronek is that caliber either.

    Question really is how far we are from 5th nation, lets say its Russia. We dont have Zaitsevs, Provorovs.....
    notwithstanding Tarasenko, Kucerov.... We blatantly loosing the pace with those nations and we dont analyze reasons for that. And this seriously makes me mad.

    Ok,you can still argue that its too early to say that when those generations of more succesfull juniors comming right now. But I seriously didnt see there anything that special.

    If we establish ourself as nation with 10 draft picks, then we gonna play our own league there forever....And I would be ok with that, if I didn't read interviews with czech NHL scouts, Bukac, Zabransky and others. Then you would have to say that Czech Republic was enviromental exception and this country can not be that good as it was. Before that I have to say I dont really trust Lener and I would firstly like to get serious answers from him. Or I shouldnt comment it anymore till 2020. 10 years is imo red line to evaluate this.
     
  18. Czechboy

    Czechboy Registered User

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    [QUOTE="Jablkon, post: 145896799, member: 228575"]Not sure what you mean by "everything is perfect here" . I clearly dont think everything is perect. In fact I think its opposite. I dont even know what to think about WJC success. We are able to play quite an equal games against Russia, Finnland and even Sweden, which itself is big progress compare to 2010. But I am hesitate to call it success.

    In terms od depth, I am convinced its not there. Those you mentioned are all in NHL. Its about 30 players in NHL. But you can hardly built any competitive team from europlayers which quite strikes me. Ok, maybe when you put together guys like Jarusek,Klepis, Vondrka, Lenc etc. it would somehow work but there we would be underdogs on maybe Denmark level. And still we work with aspects which clearly those teams dont have. They dont have guys around stadiums who challenged Canada in 76 Canada Cup, they dont have Jagr on the bench etc.

    Just to make it clear, I dont think we are on level of Denmark, Germany, Slovakia, Switzerland by any means. If we fall there its only our mistake and we can not blame anybody just ourselfs for it. I just reacted to posters here implaying to say we are there despite you see tons of things on that hockey programs which they miss to get on our level.

    Back to depth. I am certain our only depth is somehow on wings. We dont have any on centers and Ds position. When somebody pointed here that our top 4th line is like Simon - Necas - Nosek, thats pretty bad imo in terms of global look on czech development. Team you mentioned is basically our A team.

    Czech players have mentality and work ethic which Soundsoffury can not probably evaluate. Kick them out from NHL they will be back through the smallest window in the arena. Thats simply great. But,on the other hand, Simek, Kempny, Rutta will be all at best 4th Ds. There is nobody for top pairing level and honestly I dont think Hronek is that caliber either.

    Question really is how far we are from 5th nation, lets say its Russia. We dont have Zaitsevs, Provorovs.....
    notwithstanding Tarasenko, Kucerov.... We blatantly loosing the pace with those nations and we dont analyze reasons for that. And this seriously makes me mad.

    Ok,you can still argue that its too early to say that when those generations of more succesfull juniors comming right now. But I seriously didnt see there anything that special.

    If we establish ourself as nation with 10 draft picks, then we gonna play our own league there forever....And I would be ok with that, if I didn't read interviews with czech NHL scouts, Bukac, Zabransky and others. Then you would have to say that Czech Republic was enviromental exception and this country can not be that good as it was. Before that I have to say I dont really trust Lener and I would firstly like to get serious answers from him. Or I shouldnt comment it anymore till 2020. 10 years is imo red line to evaluate this.[/QUOTE]

    By 'everything is perfect here' I was referring to what you wrote. I thought you summed it up beautifully. I was agreeing with you.
     
  19. Jablkon

    Jablkon Registered User

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    By 'everything is perfect here' I was referring to what you wrote. I thought you summed it up beautifully. I was agreeing with you.[/QUOTE]
    ok then, I didnt get it:)
     
  20. Czechboy

    Czechboy Registered User

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    Really not liking that Canada is now floating around and a potential QF opponent... I don't care that they lost to Finland and US.. I still consider them a big favourite.
     
  21. letsgrowcactus

    letsgrowcactus Registered User

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    Their goaltending has been pretty bad. Obviously they're still a favorite and can never be underestimated but I think they're more beatable this year than in the past.
     
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  22. Czechboy

    Czechboy Registered User

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    5 wins and 1 loss in 6 games at the World's. Hat's off to Jandac. I think wins like this and Belarus is why I take such exception to being compared to 'lesser nations'. Back to back shutouts is fantastic but does create a 'goaltending controversy' as I'm not sure what I've seen to suggest Francouz is number 1 (and I have no problem with him being 1). He shuts out Belarus, Rittich shuts out France - what do we learn from this? The pace of the last two games will not prep us for a Quarter against Finland/US/Canada. I would've liked to have seen a few more goals from our depth players. Secondary scoring is a bit of a concern now that we have a legit 1 line. There is a good chance we end round robin with only 1 loss and finish 3rd. The World's are interesting because, really, it doesn't matter as there are always 3 amazing Quarter Final games. I think Denmark will give Sweden (making a guess) a very good match. I think the Swiss will also give whoever they play a very good match so all the quarters are going to be very close. Thursday will be awesome. I don't want Canada as I think they will win this (but I also said undefeated so I was very wrong there). I just can't picture our weaker D hanging on with McDavid.

    Loving the round robin and this team!
     
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  23. Mirinho

    Mirinho Registered User

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    I love how Necas is able to hold a puck in offesinve zone. And his passing skill is top level. We have real gem in him. Carolina is probably best club where he can start if you imagine how many young players he'll has around him.
     
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  24. Retroglyphs

    Retroglyphs Registered User

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    Also, his acceleration is unreal. :popcorn:
     
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  25. maclean

    maclean Registered User

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    Having watched a few of their games they look very vulnerable. Of the three possibilities (Can, USA, Fin), I'd almost say they're the most playable this year, not to say it would be an easy match, but we will be underdogs in any of those cases.
     

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