Prospect Info: 2018 NHL Draft / Pick #9 - Vitali Kravtsov (RW) - Part VII

[Anthony5967]

I think Anisimov might be closer comparison:

I'm confused. You saying Kravtsov's comparable to Anisimov in terms of talent and potential?

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

I'm confused. You saying Kravtsov's comparable to Anisimov in terms of talent and potential?

no I am saying he seems more similar to Anisimov than Kovalev.

 

[DutchNYR]

Let's not pretend Kravtsov is a player who never delivers a check. He doesn't fly around like a headless chicken hitting every player all the time, but he battles for the puck like every other player

Blasphemy! You know that doesn't fit the narrative, right?

 

[nyr2k2]

no I am saying he seems more similar to Anisimov than Kovalev.

More similar in what way?

 

[aufheben]

My point wasn't to compare the two. Given the draft capital expended, I'd argue BOTH would sting if they don't pan out.

However, it takes more than one prospect to build a hockey team.

Lias + Kravtsov both failing would be pretty devastating though. And I don't even want to think about Kakko. I've argued to be patient with him, so I won't even bring up 3 straight 1st rd. fails...

I halfway agree. The only prospect that will make/break this is Kakko, but Kravtsov would be a significant loss—especially compared to Andersson—because he’s actually good.

 

[aufheben]

Buch has come a long way from where he was when he first got here, and he was older when he got here than Kravtsov was. I'm sure Panarin and Buch talk a lot.

Honestly, many of our players could learn by watching Panarin, not just the Russian kids. None of them have Panarin's skill or brain, but they can emulate his work ethic and his play away from the puck. They can watch Mika too.

Ironically his linemate Strome has done the complete opposite.

 

[NYRangers16]

I halfway agree. The only prospect that will make/break this is Kakko, but Kravtsov would be a significant loss—especially compared to Andersson—because he’s actually good.

Are we judging make it or break it for the team based on our expectations or based on capital expended? Arguably Andersson cost more(ie higher pick), plus as he was a year earlier his presence now "should" be more helpful. Imagine if we had an amazing bottom 6 to match our top 2 lines.

I do agree on Kakko. A #2 overall not becoming a stud would be devastating. But we know non-generational talents take time...

 

[aufheben]

Are we judging make it or break it for the team based on our expectations or based on capital expended? Arguably Andersson cost more(ie higher pick), plus as he was a year earlier his presence now "should" be more helpful. Imagine if we had an amazing bottom 6 to match our top 2 lines.

I do agree on Kakko. A #2 overall not becoming a stud would be devastating. But we know non-generational talents take time...

Meh it was a small pick difference and not a great 1st round in 2017. It’s also the factor of whiffing on consecutive top picks. I expected that to happen at least once during the rebuild, but two in a row is not good. If we didn’t luck out on Kakko (who hasn’t been great either...), Kravtsov busting would absolutely kill or delay the rebuild.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Are we judging make it or break it for the team based on our expectations or based on capital expended? Arguably Andersson cost more(ie higher pick), plus as he was a year earlier his presence now "should" be more helpful. Imagine if we had an amazing bottom 6 to match our top 2 lines.

I do agree on Kakko. A #2 overall not becoming a stud would be devastating. But we know non-generational talents take time...

I would argue that, even on their respective draft days, 7OA in 2017 was less valuable than 9OA in 2018. Without going back to check, I think I would have taken Wahlstrom, Dobson, Kravtsov + one more guy who is escaping me at the moment over Vilardi; who I was hoping we would take at 7OA in 2017.

Pick value aside, I don't see a large difference in one or the other as being more important to the rebuild. Skilled top6 winger with game breaking vision, or shutdown sandpaper middle six C.

Current value to the team though? Not even close. Kravtsov is still being groomed and there are still plans to have him on the roster as soon as he is ready.

We're coming along okay with neither, but it would be pretty frustrating if they both turn out to be duds.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

at the end he continues skating behind the net instead of stopping and trying to get the puck to go in.

 

[B17 Apricots]

I'd love to see them experiment a little with him at center next year like they had alluded to a bit when they drafted him

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I'd love to see them experiment a little with him at center next year like they had alluded to a bit when they drafted him

Did they? Kravtsov only really played center out of necessity for the u20 NT in his D+1 year. I hope they use their prospects to the best of their abilities instead of moving them out of position.

 

[mrmovies779]

I'd love to see them experiment a little with him at center next year like they had alluded to a bit when they drafted him

Rather they just keep him where he's at while he hopefully developes into the player they expect him to be.No reason to start moving him around and put extra pressure on him

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I'd love to see them experiment a little with him at center next year like they had alluded to a bit when they drafted him

This makes zero sense. Why do some on this board have an obsession with shoehorning players into center?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

This makes zero sense. Why do some on this board have an obsession with shoehorning players into center?

Yeah. If you are moving Kravtsov elsewhere, it should be LW, not center. I did a breakdown of his position in the line-up in his D+1 year in the KHL, let me see if I can find it

edit: found it

 

[B17 Apricots]

Did they? Kravtsov only really played center out of necessity for the u20 NT in his D+1 year. I hope they use their prospects to the best of their abilities instead of moving them out of position.

Rather they just keep him where he's at while he hopefully developes into the player they expect him to be.No reason to start moving him around and put extra pressure on him

This makes zero sense. Why do some on this board have an obsession with shoehorning players into center?

I was gonna say some smart-ass shit but I won't . Anyway I'm just referring to an interview Gordie Clark had given where he said something along the lines of Kravstov plays much like a center and had compared him to Kuznetsov who similarly played wing in the KHL and the Capitals had converted him to center. Im just looking at it at a couple different angles. If Fast is re-signed and Kravstov makes the team I can see him or Julien get stapled on the bottom line, I'm not sure they'll be willing to bump Fast down. If they don't plan on keeping Strome long term and move Chytil up who plays 3C? Who knows if Kravstov will even make the team next year. Point is I don't think it could hurt seeing how the guy looks there, no one is saying hey we need to force this guy to play this position or else. Obviously there's no problem just letting the kid be a winger.

 

[Kovalev27]

I think he’s a left wing

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

This makes zero sense. Why do some on this board have an obsession with shoehorning players into center?

it is apparent that his only chance to make the Rangers is as a goalie.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

it is apparent that his only chance to make the Rangers is as a goalie.

We have an opening on the coaching staff, FWIW.

 

[lemonybergamot]

So Kovalev was recently named HC of the Kunlun Red Star. I was reading about that on twitter and went down the rabbit hole.

GK: New York Rangers prospect Vitali Kravtsov has made big news lately. He was sent down to Hartford and decided to exercise a clause in his contract that allowed him to return to Traktor Chelyabinsk. It has sparked a debate over whether an NHL prospect better develops in the AHL versus the KHL.
SF: It’s a unique situation—I do not know Vitaly well as a player or a person. I know what they’re debating: he was not willing to stay in the system, to go on the buses for 10-12 hours. Where were his agents and parents to set expectations? Did he think that he was going to the New York Rangers’ top two lines? He could be a top-six forward, but if you look at the roster, there are already 27 or 28 players. Where do you fit? That’s where agents need to come in to set expectations. You have to talk to the kid like an adult. Obviously Vitali has great potential, but I have seen a lot of great young talents where nothing happens.
I think we have to wait and see. It’s possible he will get more ice time [here], and will develop in a year or so to play in the NHL. But again, he left the system of the Rangers. It is going to be up to him. He needs a plan now. I’m telling you, he needs a plan every game. He chose to come back and play for his home team, which has really struggled. Russian fans welcome that. American fans, probably not — they think that in the North American system, he can learn quicker (smaller ice size and so on). That is true too. We have to wait and see. Hopefully, he becomes a KHL star—but now, I think he has to stay here until 24 or 25 years old. He does not need to go back earlier than that, aside from training camps. He needs a good advisor, and support of his parents—but they are not to advise him on what to do. Then we’ll see.
It’s not a strong opinion; it’s a dry opinion on the basis of my experience."

GK= Gillian Kemmerer- she's a journalist, and host for a few shows for the KHL.
SF= Sergei Fedorov

ONE-ON-ONE WITH SERGEI FEDOROV — The Caviar Diplomat

Apologies if this was posted before. Just read a bunch of her articles, there's more where she asks about VK to other players, interesting and insightful stuff!

The part where SF says he's seen "great young talents where nothing happens" damn that worries me a tiny bit lol considering the Rangers' historic great luck at top first round picks.

Well, we can be patient, but the onus is on VK now. He's at camp, he's getting face time with Quinn, and other coaches, he's with fellow Russians (and young players/prospects as well), he's seeing how the top players and consummate pros like Kreiders, Zibbys, Lundqvists, and Fasts of the league practice and play every day, and he's experiencing the push for a stanley cup. If none of these factors can improve his mental space, or encourage him to bust his ass (even if it's only a top 9 spot), then SF may be right in that the Rangers should've just left VK in Russia.

 

[Trxjw]

Eh, I think the part about "great young talents" who flop is more of a generalization than an indication of his opinion of Kravtsov.

I definitely appreciate what he's saying about Kravtsov having the right expectations and that perhaps his inner-circle isn't doing their part in the process. I get a little bit of an Andersson vibe with Kravtsov. Not a bad kid at all, but perhaps he was given the impression that he was a key piece of the puzzle and would be able to walk right onto what most people thought would be a mediocre team at best. Once their bubble was burst they ran back to what was familiar to them.

Oddly enough both Andersson and Kravtsov's real value to the organization may ultimately be as trade chips.

 

[nyr2k2]

So Kovalev was recently named HC of the Kunlun Red Star. I was reading about that on twitter and went down the rabbit hole.

GK: New York Rangers prospect Vitali Kravtsov has made big news lately. He was sent down to Hartford and decided to exercise a clause in his contract that allowed him to return to Traktor Chelyabinsk. It has sparked a debate over whether an NHL prospect better develops in the AHL versus the KHL.
SF: It’s a unique situation—I do not know Vitaly well as a player or a person. I know what they’re debating: he was not willing to stay in the system, to go on the buses for 10-12 hours. Where were his agents and parents to set expectations? Did he think that he was going to the New York Rangers’ top two lines? He could be a top-six forward, but if you look at the roster, there are already 27 or 28 players. Where do you fit? That’s where agents need to come in to set expectations. You have to talk to the kid like an adult. Obviously Vitali has great potential, but I have seen a lot of great young talents where nothing happens.
I think we have to wait and see. It’s possible he will get more ice time [here], and will develop in a year or so to play in the NHL. But again, he left the system of the Rangers. It is going to be up to him. He needs a plan now. I’m telling you, he needs a plan every game. He chose to come back and play for his home team, which has really struggled. Russian fans welcome that. American fans, probably not — they think that in the North American system, he can learn quicker (smaller ice size and so on). That is true too. We have to wait and see. Hopefully, he becomes a KHL star—but now, I think he has to stay here until 24 or 25 years old. He does not need to go back earlier than that, aside from training camps. He needs a good advisor, and support of his parents—but they are not to advise him on what to do. Then we’ll see.
It’s not a strong opinion; it’s a dry opinion on the basis of my experience."

GK= Gillian Kemmerer- she's a journalist, and host for a few shows for the KHL.
SF= Sergei Fedorov

ONE-ON-ONE WITH SERGEI FEDOROV — The Caviar Diplomat

Apologies if this was posted before. Just read a bunch of her articles, there's more where she asks about VK to other players, interesting and insightful stuff!

The part where SF says he's seen "great young talents where nothing happens" damn that worries me a tiny bit lol considering the Rangers' historic great luck at top first round picks.

Well, we can be patient, but the onus is on VK now. He's at camp, he's getting face time with Quinn, and other coaches, he's with fellow Russians (and young players/prospects as well), he's seeing how the top players and consummate pros like Kreiders, Zibbys, Lundqvists, and Fasts of the league practice and play every day, and he's experiencing the push for a stanley cup. If none of these factors can improve his mental space, or encourage him to bust his ass (even if it's only a top 9 spot), then SF may be right in that the Rangers should've just left VK in Russia.

Pretty interesting hearing this from Kovy. Very insightful, even if he doesn't have specific knowledge of Kravtsov himself. Kovy must have learned a lot over his career.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Pretty interesting hearing this from Kovy. Very insightful, even if he doesn't have specific knowledge of Kravtsov himself. Kovy must have learned a lot over his career.

Actually, it's from Sergei Federov (SF).

 

[lemonybergamot]

Pretty interesting hearing this from Kovy. Very insightful, even if he doesn't have specific knowledge of Kravtsov himself. Kovy must have learned a lot over his career.

That quote was actually by Sergei Fedorov. But here are some other interviews she brought up Kravtsov.

ONE-ON-ONE WITH MIKE PELINO — The Caviar Diplomat mistranslation from North American/English speaking coaches to Kravtsov in the bike/bpm incident where VK took this literally instead.

MAXIM AFINOGENOV IN MOSCOW — The Caviar Diplomat - Some players get sent to the AHL and use it as motivation to work harder, and never go back. Some fail. Really the onus is on Kravtsov now to dedicate himself to his career (hopefully with the Rangers). He came over earlier to the States to learn English and acclimate himself to the environment/culture here, he supposedly got on the first plane possible to come to camp, VK isn't totally devoid of ambition. But kid really needs to learn to stay focused, disciplined, and a little more open-minded what coaches are asking of him. Coaches should stop with metaphors, etc. and tell our young players/prospects exactly what they want of them.

 

[nyr2k2]

Got it, thanks. Less surprising, then. LOL.