Prospect Info: 2018 NHL Draft / Pick #9 - Vitali Kravtsov (RW) - Part VI

[Fugazy]

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[Thirty One]

I didn't get to read the last thread since his scratch. I'm going to assume all the reactions were reasonable.

 

[duhmetreE]

He might be sulking. Understandable for a 19 year old.

This is where kids struggle.

 

[Ail]

Crytali Krapsoft lmao!

 

[kovazub94]

I didn't get to read the last thread since his scratch. I'm going to assume all the reactions were reasonable.

Everyone is very supportive!

 

[Ola]

@shinchanuuhh Good stuff in the last thread, but I want to chip in a bit. I don’t think it’s entirely correct to describe it as Kravy not being as advertised. I don’t think he is behind say someone like Hayes his rookie year. The kid is just 20 and there are always an adjustment period. And if we didn’t have a boat load of new guys up in NY already he probably would have played in a great environment for him and grown into it sooner rather than later.

Sure he has had some issues, but they have largely been about him trying to do too much. You can have worse faults than that.

Regarding this HFD situation, remember that we don’t know anything whatsoever about it. The kid can have sore groins for all we know, and rested for a good reason. Or it can be something else, we don’t know. The guy who came in for him was a HFD vet in Meskanen. They have a log jam down there too. Many players will sit. Placing Kravys turn early isn’t odd.

We will know more soon.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Still an excellent prospect. This instant gratification nonsense may be the norm elsewhere in society, but certainly not in hockey player development. There is no rush for him to succeed.

Failure is a good thing and it applies to everyone. One tough week is designed to build him into a better person and player.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Still an excellent prospect. This instant gratification nonsense may be the norm elsewhere in society, but certainly not in hockey player development. There is no rush for him to succeed.

Failure is a good thing and it applies to everyone. One tough week is designed to build him into a better person and player.

Nice jab at society there haha. It's so true

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

@shinchanuuhh Good stuff in the last thread, but I want to chip in a bit. I don’t think it’s entirely correct to describe it as Kravy not being as advertised.

Thanks. It wasn't so much that he's not as advertised although it is true to some degree. He was advertised as able to step right into an NHL top 6 (or at least we really hoped) . In THAT case I'd say he's not as advertised.

That said, I'm definitely of the opinion that it is not a big deal at all that he was scratched. It's just that simultaneously, I also recognize that a significant chunk of HF NYR had unrealistic expectations and followed them up with an overreaction to what is likely just a routine teaching moment for a young prospect.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

This has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Kravtsov has universally received glowing reports internally within the Rangers organization as well as externally from pro scouting community. @Amazing Kreiderman reports have been consistent with those (and I personally saw the same thing even if my view holds no pro weight whatsoever).

Take it easy, killer. I laid out exactly why I brought that up and showed how it was relevant while doing so. Seems like you took offense on AK's behalf but you should read how he actually responded to me. He's already said it himself many times that he has to back people off and remind them he's just a fan bc people get a little overzealous about his thoughts and praise on some of our prospects . I bet a lot of posters here took his praise as incontrovertible proof that Kravtsov would be top 6 NHL ready from day 1 which led to the overreaction. The overreaction we literally saw the thread page before my comment. My perfectly relevant comment

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

I am talking about playing in the KHL not being good for the development of a player in general as some suggest. It is just not that simple

I suggested it but I also did show that it's not that simple within that same post.

It's not definitive but there is very strong evidence to suggest that most of that league is negligent when it comes to developing a complete game that is NHL ready. Too many prospects have basic holes that shouldn't exist after being in a league that wants to draw comparisons to the NHL. If it's the true second best league in the world than it's a very, very, very distant second.

We all know how top heavy that league is and we've seen issues with coaches and off ice training. Not that it's proven but there's strong evidence

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I suggested it but I also did show that it's not that simple within that same post.

It's not definitive but there is very strong evidence to suggest that most of that league is negligent when it comes to developing a complete game that is NHL ready. Too many prospects have basic holes that shouldn't exist after being in a league that wants to draw comparisons to the NHL. If it's the true second best league in the world than it's a very, very, very distant second.

We all know how top heavy that league is and we've seen issues with coaches and off ice training. Not that it's proven but there's strong evidence

I think, and I would have to check the numbers on this to be sure, that the success rate for Russian prospects in the AHL isn't very hopeful. Not saying Kravtsov is doomed to fail in the AHL but I don't think I can name 3 Russians who successfully developed in the AHL

 

[EpicDing]

I think, and I would have to check the numbers on this to be sure, that the success rate for Russian prospects in the AHL isn't very hopeful. Not saying Kravtsov is doomed to fail in the AHL but I don't think I can name 3 Russians who successfully developed in the AHL

Couldn't that be because most top Russian prospects never play there, though?

In general though, I think this is all overreaction to nothing. If Kravttsov was moping or not fully invested, he needs a scratch. I'm sure the Knoblauch had his reasons, just like Quinn does when he scratches players.

 

[rangersfansince08]

With Names gone can we try Kravstov at 2C and try to trade Strome for something similar?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Couldn't that be because most top Russian prospects never play there, though?

In general though, I think this is all overreaction to nothing. If Kravttsov was moping or not fully invested, he needs a scratch. I'm sure the Knoblauch had his reasons, just like Quinn does when he scratches players.

Of course that's part of the reason. But the ones who did actually go through the AHL haven't really done well.

This whole situation is moot until Kravtsov decides to go. I don't think he will, but the EAC in his contract gives him the option and the ball is in his court

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

With Names gone can we try Kravstov at 2C and try to trade Strome for something similar?

Hahahaha. No, please. Can we stop with this? Kravtsov isn't a center. Some games playing center for junior teams doesn't make him a center

 

[Ghost of jas]

With Names gone can we try Kravstov at 2C and try to trade Strome for something similar?

Kravtsov isn’t up to speed as a wing at the NHL level and you want to move him to center?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Kravtsov isn’t up to speed as a wing at the NHL level and you want to move him to center?

I would move Kreider to center before I would even think of moving Kravtsov there

 

[EpicDing]

Of course that's part of the reason. But the ones who did actually go through the AHL haven't really done well.

This whole situation is moot until Kravtsov decides to go. I don't think he will, but the EAC in his contract gives him the option and the ball is in his court

I think it would be a huge mistake to go back to Russia. Tough it out in the A til the deadline, work on what the coaches told you to work on, get called up and never look back.

 

[rangersfansince08]

He just reminds me so much of Kuznetsov. Maybe not now but it has to be an option a year or two down the line.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

I think, and I would have to check the numbers on this to be sure, that the success rate for Russian prospects in the AHL isn't very hopeful. Not saying Kravtsov is doomed to fail in the AHL but I don't think I can name 3 Russians who successfully developed in the AHL

But we have countless prospects from everywhere else that do develop in the AHL which helps suggest it's an issue for prospects coming from Russian leagues. We also have much more info about how the AHL is run for each organization and can see much more easily how it does or does not help train players up on having a complete game.

Kravtsov is likely benched bc he was asked to do things he was rarely held accountable for bc he was allowed to coast on O skill. It's speculation, I fully admit, but that's what we're here for. It's also speculation based on years of seeing things (like russian prospect flame out percentages in the AHL and similar holes in the games of all but the best prospects)

 

[Ola]

Thanks. It wasn't so much that he's not as advertised although it is true to some degree. He was advertised as able to step right into an NHL top 6 (or at least we really hoped) . In THAT case I'd say he's not as advertised.

That said, I'm definitely of the opinion that it is not a big deal at all that he was scratched. It's just that simultaneously, I also recognize that a significant chunk of HF NYR had unrealistic expectations and followed them up with an overreaction to what is likely just a routine teaching moment for a young prospect.

That is probably fair. And to be honest, I wonder if I haven't hyped Kravy's NHL readiness more than AK. If anything, I think AK has been a bit cautious about Kravy, I could have missed something, but IIRC. AK can heap praise on our prospects, but I don't think he generally are pushing agendas that they will be ready from day 1. Last season for example I remember AK arguing that non of the kids would make the NHL team out of camp.

I saw Kravy when he was a young 17 y/o in the KHL, and he didn't at all have the "problems" he had early in the NHL. He was good at driving the puck deep, he was good on the forecheck. Its maybe a bad excuse, but I think the 2 inches he grew since than was detrimental. He has lost some intensity.

Now he didn't end up making the team, that is a fact and there is no way around it, I predicted he would. With that said, I don't really think he is any worse than Buch was when Buch made the team or than what Hayes was when Hayes made the team, than Vesey was when Vesey made the team, among others, as rookies out of camp. I do think the numbers really worked against him given the amount of new faces we already have etc etc etc. But, he certainly also struggled -- more than I expected -- with simplifying his game. I think it was bad in Traverese, and even if there where some progress during camp, I still think we all the way to the end saw some plays that just were ill-advised.

It don't impact my picture of his potential down the road at all though, and I am sure everyone agrees with that. Its a short term thing, for now.

 

[Ola]

But we have countless prospects from everywhere else that do develop in the AHL which helps suggest it's an issue for prospects coming from Russian leagues. We also have much more info about how the AHL is run for each organization and can see much more easily how it does or does not help train players up on having a complete game.

Kravtsov is likely benched bc he was asked to do things he was rarely held accountable for bc he was allowed to coast on O skill. It's speculation, I fully admit, but that's what we're here for. It's also speculation based on years of seeing things (like russian prospect flame out percentages in the AHL and similar holes in the games of all but the best prospects)

To be honest, I am not sure if I am that impressed with how any of our kids have developed in the AHL for a loooong time.

The game was different back then, but the Ortmayer, Hollweg, Callahan, Betts and Dubi generation just took very big strides in the AHL. McGill had them forchecking so hard down there, I think our off-ice regime was state of the art and improved these guys skating a lot. When they got up, they had something the NHL guys didn't. Really good forechecking game. They improved physically. They developed more than expected in the AHL. I am not sure if I can think of any prospects more or less the last decade and a half that improved a lot more than I expected in the AHL. From Kreider to Miller to Skjei to Fast to Lindberg to Chytil to Lias.

 

[TheDirtyH]

I think, and I would have to check the numbers on this to be sure, that the success rate for Russian prospects in the AHL isn't very hopeful. Not saying Kravtsov is doomed to fail in the AHL but I don't think I can name 3 Russians who successfully developed in the AHL

Depending on what it means to develop in/through the NHL, it actually looks as commonplace for Russian players as any. Not a ton have spent full seasons down there--no doubt contract clauses and extended time in the KHL contribute--but to name a few who have started or spent time in the AHL: Radulov, Kucherov, Anisimov, Barbashev, Voynov, Orlov, Zadorov, Zykov, Gurianov.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

So I missed what happened. He was healthy scratched? Any reason why?