2018 Management Discussion

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Seattle Totems

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Apr 14, 2010
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I added to my last post..Canucks were not on the market for those types of UFA's

Yeah exactly and that's the problem. They had no interest in making their team better by signing skilled top 9 forwards. Those UFAs might actually play with young players like Vanek did with Boeser. That was actual mentoring. A clown show like Roussel or goon such as Dorset does nothing for our prospects.

The Canucks did not need to sign three fourth liners. That's why people are upset. All Benning did was create a log jam and ensure that our prospects have nowhere to play in the NHL. Some of our prospects will now be lost on waivers. For a team that is supposedly "rebuilding" that is completely moronic. Teams that are "rebuilding" and have zero hope of making the playoffs do not lose prospects to make room for 4th line role players.
 

Askel

By the way Benning should be fired.
Apr 19, 2004
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Yeah exactly and that's the problem. They had no interest in making their team better by signing skilled top 9 forwards. Those UFAs might actually play with young players like Vanek did with Boeser. That was actual mentoring. A clown show like Roussel or goon such as Dorset does nothing for our prospects.

The Canucks did not need to sign three fourth liners. That's why people are upset. All Benning did was create a log jam and ensure that our prospects have nowhere to play in the NHL. Some of our prospects will now be lost on waivers. For a team that is supposedly "rebuilding" that is completely moronic. Teams that are "rebuilding" and have zero hope of making the playoffs do not lose prospects to make room for 4th line role players.
Exactly, plus that Benning and Linden choose to bring back the exact same defense and Goaltenders that was 26th in goals against last year.
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

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Oct 1, 2017
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Yeah exactly and that's the problem. They had no interest in making their team better by signing skilled top 9 forwards. Those UFAs might actually play with young players like Vanek did with Boeser. That was actual mentoring. A clown show like Roussel or goon such as Dorset does nothing for our prospects.

The Canucks did not need to sign three fourth liners. That's why people are upset. All Benning did was create a log jam and ensure that our prospects have nowhere to play in the NHL. Some of our prospects will now be lost on waivers. For a team that is supposedly "rebuilding" that is completely moronic. Teams that are "rebuilding" and have zero hope of making the playoffs do not lose prospects to make room for 4th line role players.
So,they should have signed more top 6 vets..?..and kept Archie,Gaunce and Motte on the 4th line?
 

JAK

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Jul 10, 2010
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You cannot put all 5 years blame on management's shoulders.
It was obvious that ownership wanted to push hard after the first year fluke playoffs.
 
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CanaFan

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Feb 19, 2010
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You cannot put all 5 years blame on management's shoulders.
It was obvious that ownership wanted to push hard after the first year fluke playoffs.

Well if Benning had pro scouted a bit better maybe they would have? I mean, are you actually saying we suck because the owner ok’ed Benning to sign a $36M UFA forward? I mean, did the owner specify it had to be Eriksson or was Benning allowed to make that bad decision himself?
 
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Pastor Of Muppetz

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Oct 1, 2017
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Well if Benning had pro scouted a bit better maybe they would have? I mean, are you actually saying we suck because the owner ok’ed Benning to sign a $36M UFA forward? I mean, did the owner specify it had to be Eriksson or was Benning allowed to make that bad decision himself?
Wasn't that the year that almost every high viz UFA shit the bed...?...Brouwer,Okposo,Lucic,Ladd,Backes etc
 

Bleach Clean

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Aug 9, 2006
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Of course this is a valid question.

The way I define the 10% to 20% figure is min maxing draft picks in cap space because honestly how are you going to get extra draft picks?

Trading your existing assets to get them is the only way ( cap Space being asset )

So what is happening is they are not spending significant assets on players that wouldn’t fit in the long-term plan because of age for the most part.

This means when you make trades you make trades for young players or at least young enough to see through the rebuild such as big Erik.

It means you do not trade away high draft picks for immediate help A.k.a. older players who you know will be retired long before you can realistically contend.

Weaponizing cap space to maximize draft picks is actually not that significant when you calculate how likely it is for a draft pick to turn in to a good player.

Every franchise has whiffed on a top five pick your top 10 pick look at Sam Bennett look at Cam Barker look at Brett Connolly the list goes on and on.

If you do the math and you assume successful drafting you don’t need any more than the standard seven allotted picks per year in fact anymore than that would create and in balance in your roster with too many players up for re-signing deals at the same time which can cripple a team.

I agree that having more pics will move the needle forward in terms of rebuilding and restocking talent of course it’s trivially true idea. The question is would you rather move the needle forward that little bit at the expense of building a culture I say no and I’m glad that the professionals doing the job agree with me.


To answer:

1. If they are limiting themselves from trading existing assets to gain picks, that's a decision that is costing them picks. As in, they are working against a rebuild.

2. If they are choosing to instead target age gap players that fit the long-term plan, that's compounding issue #1 by paying a premium for these players. So less futures in + more futures out = paying through the nose for a bad team.

3. No one expects a team in their position to trade high picks for veterans. That's what playoff bound teams do.

4. The low odds associated with the draft is not a valid reason to forgo weaponizing cap space. Picks are the primary assets to a rebuild. Period. As the best assets for a rebuild, they should be pursued as a primary objective and weaponizing cap space is a way to that end.

5. I've never seen someone at once disparage the odds of drafting to make one point, and then promote the odds of the draft to make the point that a team could have too many good players to sustain --> All in the same post.

6. Building a culture and drafting to rebuild are not mutually exclusive ideas. You are presenting a false dichotomy with your last point.
 

Horse McHindu

They call me Horse.....
Jun 21, 2014
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As a Benning fan, even I will have to admit that the Eriksson signing was a bad one. However - I still contend that the signing was a closeted 4 year deal, and that Eriksson will either be traded to a cap floor team after year 4 (if he recoups some of his original worth as a player) or will retire.

By the end of year 4, 31 out of the 36 million will have been paid to Eriksson. It’s modern day cap circumvention.......engineered by the genius known as Benning.

Having said all that - I think the deployment of Eriksson has been atrocious. Why the coaching staff haven’t put Eriksson and Horvat together is beyond me.

Why the coaching staff continuously plays Eriksson with Sutter is a joke. Their games are very incompatible and what you are essentially doing, is turning Eriksson into a defensive player (a role that he’s good at by the way........but not something you pay a guy 6 million for).

My hope is that the Canucks deploy Eriksson properly this coming season.......just as they finally started to deploy Sutter correctly last season.
 

vadim sharifijanov

Registered User
Oct 10, 2007
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Yeah exactly and that's the problem. They had no interest in making their team better by signing skilled top 9 forwards. Those UFAs might actually play with young players like Vanek did with Boeser. That was actual mentoring. A clown show like Roussel or goon such as Dorset does nothing for our prospects.

au contraire. b prust literally made virtanen worse.
 

Megaterio Llamas

el rey del mambo
Oct 29, 2011
11,302
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As a Benning fan, even I will have to admit that the Eriksson signing was a bad one. However - I still contend that the signing was a closeted 4 year deal, and that Eriksson will either be traded to a cap floor team after year 4 (if he recoups some of his original worth as a player) or will retire.

By the end of year 4, 31 out of the 36 million will have been paid to Eriksson. It’s modern day cap circumvention.......engineered by the genius known as Benning.

Having said all that - I think the deployment of Eriksson has been atrocious. Why the coaching staff haven’t put Eriksson and Horvat together is beyond me.

Why the coaching staff continuously plays Eriksson with Sutter is a joke. Their games are very incompatible and what you are essentially doing, is turning Eriksson into a defensive player (a role that he’s good at by the way........but not something you pay a guy 6 million for).

My hope is that the Canucks deploy Eriksson properly this coming season.......just as they finally started to deploy Sutter correctly last season.

Benning is talking about the Beagle acquisition in terms of 'freeing up Sutter for a more offensive role.' :)



“Maybe (Travis Green) can play (Sutter) up and down the lineup with better offensive players,” Benning said. “(Green) has options there.”

Was freeing up Sutter for more offensive opportunities part of the reason the Canucks chased Beagle like he was a rock star?

“Yeah, if you look at the numbers, the analytics, (Sutter) almost started every time in the defensive zone,” Benning said. “So adding Jay to our team will take some of the pressure off him, because Jay can do that too.

“Maybe Sutter gets more offensive-zone starts.

“It will be up to Travis as to how he wants to deploy his guys, but that gives him options.”


Jason Botchford: Canucks’ polarizing first day of free agency brings us the dawn of the Grit Wars
 

Horse McHindu

They call me Horse.....
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Benning is talking about the Beagle acquisition in terms of 'freeing up Sutter for a more offensive role.' :)



“Maybe (Travis Green) can play (Sutter) up and down the lineup with better offensive players,” Benning said. “(Green) has options there.”

Was freeing up Sutter for more offensive opportunities part of the reason the Canucks chased Beagle like he was a rock star?

“Yeah, if you look at the numbers, the analytics, (Sutter) almost started every time in the defensive zone,” Benning said. “So adding Jay to our team will take some of the pressure off him, because Jay can do that too.

“Maybe Sutter gets more offensive-zone starts.

“It will be up to Travis as to how he wants to deploy his guys, but that gives him options.”


Jason Botchford: Canucks’ polarizing first day of free agency brings us the dawn of the Grit Wars

Hopefully, it’s just Benning talking about having more options. Even I will have to admit that I’ll be upset if we get any of

-Sutter or Beagle

Playing alongside

-Leipisic, Goldobin, Baertschi, Dahlen, Eriksson.

We’ll see what happens. Personally, I just don’t see Sutter being a good fit with the likes of a Pettersson or a Boeser but maybe I will be proven wrong.
 

PhilMick

Formerly PRNuck
May 20, 2009
10,817
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So realistically, is there any level of underperformance that we think would get Aquilini to clean house this year? I just can't picture a lower level of performance.
 

Nuckles

_________
Apr 27, 2010
28,385
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So realistically, is there any level of underperformance that we think would get Aquilini to clean house this year? I just can't picture a lower level of performance.
We've been at rock bottom for the past three years, so no. The only things that could trigger a change is if the media finally grows a spine and starts being honest about this regime (unlikely), or if ticket sales continue to decline to the point where Aquilini is forced to make serious changes (possible after the first half of the season).

Realistically, if Benning just got an extension and hasn't been let go at this point, he'll probably be sticking around all of this season at the minimum.
 

Cupless44

Registered User
Jun 25, 2014
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Hopefully, it’s just Benning talking about having more options. Even I will have to admit that I’ll be upset if we get any of

-Sutter or Beagle

Playing alongside

-Leipisic, Goldobin, Baertschi, Dahlen, Eriksson.

We’ll see what happens. Personally, I just don’t see Sutter being a good fit with the likes of a Pettersson or a Boeser but maybe I will be proven wrong.

You have one offensive proven centre on this team. Having both Sutter and Beagle is redundant. Two offensive black holes that pretty much make their wingers useless.

What lines are going to actually score on this team?
 

Horse McHindu

They call me Horse.....
Jun 21, 2014
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You have one offensive proven centre on this team. Having both Sutter and Beagle is redundant. Two offensive black holes that pretty much make their wingers useless.

What lines are going to actually score on this team?

I'd go with Horvat and Pettersson as the Canucks' centers. So - to answer your question, hopefully Horvat's and Pettersson's lines?

Baertschi-Horvat-Boeser
[Leipsic/Dahlen]-Pettersson-Eriksson

I think even a line of Roussel-Sutter-Virtanen could be half decent, in terms of producing some offense while focusing more on the defensive side of things.

Schaller-Beagle-[Granlund/Gagner/whoever] can focus on defense.

That's how I'd do things personally.
 
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brokenhole

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Aug 12, 2015
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First time I have seen the Eriksson contract referenced as an act of genius. Thanks for the laugh
Haha we have a modern day Mozart running the team doncha know. I got this vision of Benning with a conductor's wand wearing a dunce hat.
 
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