2018 Management Discussion

[y2kcanucks]

Canucks are not spending to the cap..there's still plenty of cap space available..

These UFA's were signed to fill the bottom 6 ,someone has to do the grinding so that the young prospects can play their offensive roles....Its a rebuild move....After 2-3 years,the 4 year year deals could simply be bought out by Aqualini (Doug McLean of Sportsnet 650 was talking about that this morning) if need be..The whole 'non-buyout thing is nonsense..Both players are pretty much locked in for 2 years,after that there is wiggle room (thats why they have front loaded contracts)

Have the Canucks been making moves of trying to push for the playoffs..no

Have the Canucks been active in acquiring picks..no

Are the Canucks rebuilding ?..Yes...Horvat,Pettersson,Juolevi,Demko,Dahlin,Hughes,Virtanen,Gaudette,Boeser are all under 23,and these are the 'core' players moving forward..Everybody else is interchangeable,and most will be off of the roster in 3 years....That is not ignoring reality.

If Quinn Hughes is ready to play this year,damn right they will make room for him via trade or whatever it takes..

Did they spend to the cap last year? Yes, they went above the cap. Did they spent to the cap the previous year? Yes. The year before that? Yes.

Is this summer over? No. Do we know how much they're spending this year on their final roster? No.

Stop ignoring the facts in favour of what you think will happen. It's okay to project what you think will happen as part of your analysis as long as you take into account what has already happened.

Yes, the UFA's that were signed were to fill bottom 6 spots, so what? That doesn't mean you go out and grossly over pay for them. There are plenty of options still available who would have been much cheaper. There were plenty of better players who already signed elsewhere for much cheaper. The Canucks internally had options for the bottom 6 (including a player they brought back in Archibald). Notice how no one has complained about the Schaller contract?

So we're signing contracts now that we think will be bought out? You do realize that's piss poor management, right? Let me ask you this: when you think this team will start to be good again? Because if they're starting to be competitive by the end of these deals those buyouts are certainly going to hurt (especially Beagle's based on his bonus heavy contract).

How can you say they haven't been making moves to push for the playoffs? What else do you call spending to the cap signing veterans and trading away futures for now pieces?

How can you say they are rebuilding when they aren't bothering to acquire any picks and went into this past draft with a draft pick deficit? It's nice that you can list our prospect pool, but that doesn't mean they're rebuilding. Here's a list for you: Braden Point, Mikhail Sergachev, Anthony Cirelli, Andre Vasilevski, Mathieu Joseph, Alexander Volkov, Mitchell Stephens, Cal Foote, Brett Howden, Taylor Raddysh, Boris Katchouk. These are players all under age 23 for Tampa and they're their future core. And Tampa sure as hell isn't in the middle of what's supposed to be a rebuild.

So yeah, you listing a bunch of prospects the Canucks got, mostly because Benning failed miserably at what he was trying to do, doesn't mean they're rebuilding. Other teams have great prospects too. So again, stop ignoring reality.

Who is Benning going to move out for Quinn Hughes? I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I wasn’t showing they wanted to be Canucks, I was showing they were signed by “bottom feeders” for more reasonable terms than the guys we signed.

Though you might be into something by asking if the Canucks were interested. Could that be the common denominator?

I added to my last post..Canucks were not on the market for those types of UFA's

 

[Motte and Bailey]

The best way to summarize the management plan is simply:

They are rebuilding the roster and building a culture.

The former takes precedence in 80-90% of the actions which is to keep high draft picks and acquire young players etc.

But 10-20% of the resources are devoted to building a culture which is to sign good character guys to support the youth on and off the ice.

This means, instead of going 100% into rebuilding the roster which would include things like min/maxing draft picks and salary, we maintain more of an 80-20 balance.

It may be confusing to some diehards looking from the outside but internally the front office, the team, and most fans understand this is the best way to go and people have bought in.

The rewards won’t be reaped until a cup is won, and even then, being an intangible, the culture that was built won’t be praised front and center or ever truly appreciated for how instrumental it was but nonetheless it will likely be the deciding factor if a championship is won.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Those deals weren’t as bad as ours.

No I agree. I was talking about our deals

 

[CanaFan]

I added to my last post..Canucks were not on the market for those types of UFA's

Still not my point.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Each successive one year plan to make the playoffs from this sports entertainment company comes with a standing edict from Mr Aquilini to spend to the cap ceiling. Once you understand this everything begins to make sense.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Another creative excuse! You should def be on the payroll.

If you were satisfied with my shill post I would really appreciate it if you took the time to complete a brief survey to rate your experience! Click here

 

[CanaFan]

If you were satisfied with my shill post I would really appreciate it if you took the time to complete a brief survey to rate your experience! Click here

I was all ready to fill out the survey too!

 

[Motte and Bailey]

I was all ready to fill out the survey too!

Sorry I fixed the link, go ahead and try again

 

[TruGr1t]

These are not great contracts at all,but as a bottom feeder it was inevitable that the Canucks would have to overpay.....The definition of UFA is overpayment.

a big part of being a Canuck is getting involved in the community and establishing roots in the city. We want these vets to show the up and coming players this mentality.

Seriously ... are you two inside Benning/Linden's heads here?? Whether I agree or disagree with you (it's the latter) I have to admit you guys are directly on the same wave length as management. Like these two posts could be verbatim out of Benning or Linden's mouth.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Seriously ... are you two inside Benning/Linden's heads here?? Whether I agree or disagree with you (it's the latter) I have to admit you guys are directly on the same wave length as management. Like these two posts could be verbatim out of Benning or Linden's mouth.

Weisbrod actually... oops

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Sorry I fixed the link, go ahead and try again

I'm seriously interested in a hockey astroturfing gig and I think I have the requisite skills to be a real asset to an organization online. Just out of curiosity though, what's the pay like?

 

[Motte and Bailey]

I'm seriously interested in a hockey astroturfing gig and I think I have the requisite skills to be a real asset to an organization online. Just out of curiosity though, what's the pay like?

As you might’ve guessed I just signed a bonus laden 4 year deal worth about $3 million annually.

For those who can’t read sarcasm I’m not a Canucks org employee lol, supporting the team these days around these parts gets you branded one pretty fast so I’m just rolling with it

 

[opendoor]

After 2-3 years,the 4 year year deals could simply be bought out by Aqualini (Doug McLean of Sportsnet 650 was talking about that this morning) if need be..The whole 'non-buyout thing is nonsense..Both players are pretty much locked in for 2 years,after that there is wiggle room (thats why they have front loaded contracts)

It's not nonsense. You talk about their front loaded contracts like they create flexibility for the Canucks but it actually does the opposite. Those front loaded and bonus heavy deals are precisely why they're basically pointless to buy out. If you figure on at least $800K to replace these guys' roster spot after a buyout, the team is basically spending $2.5M in buyout and salary to replace them and then have to carry a buyout cap hit through to 2023 or 2024, 5-6 years from now.

It's simply not a viable option and if management actually went into these contracts with the thought that they could just buy their way out of these bad contracts then they're colossally stupid, almost beyond belief. The idea that you'd trade cap space from the future to prop up the present terrible team is completely asinine. If they absolutely had to have these particular guys at any cost it would've been much smarter to just pay them $4-4.5M a year on 2 year deals.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

As you might’ve guessed I just signed a bonus laden 4 year deal worth about $3 million annually.

Wow. You're truly livin' the dream. Talking hockey online and getting paid for it sounds like big fun.

Did you get to hang out in the war room on free agent day? How were those Steamer hot dogs?

 

[CanaFan]

Sorry I fixed the link, go ahead and try again

I said you *should* be on the payroll, not that you are. You have a real knack for spin.

 

[Pavel96]

a big part of being a Canuck is getting involved in the community and establishing roots in the city. We want these vets to show the up and coming players this mentality.

Extremely hard to expect someone to do that if you only sign them for 1 year ane don’t even pay them enough to afford a house here.

Yeah I'm so glad the canucks are overpaying Guddy by 3 M per year x 3 years to grow a mustache for movember and go to a local fire hall/police station and take pictures with the guys. He's such a good guy. And that's how you build a team, as Linden put it, "The kind of team I know can compete at an elite level for a long time."

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Wow. You're truly livin' the dream. Talking hockey online and getting paid for it sounds like big fun.

Did you get to hang out in the war room on free agent day? How were those Steamer hot dogs?

I can basically hear everything if I leave my door open. I’m in a corner office with an amazing view right beside Jim Benning’s for the rest of my contract, they just threw in a no movement clause near the end of negotiations.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Yeah I'm so glad the canucks are overpaying Guddy by 3 M per year x 3 years to grow a mustache for movember and go to a local fire hall/police station and take pictures with the guys. He's such a good guy. And that's how you build a team, as Linden put it, "The kind of team I know can compete at an elite level for a long time."

Any time you have money that needs to be spent, the progressive, forward thinking organization will look for a certain comfort level with the payee.

 

[Bleach Clean]

The best way to summarize the management plan is simply:

They are rebuilding the roster and building a culture.

The former takes precedence in 80-90% of the actions which is to keep high draft picks and acquire young players etc.

But 10-20% of the resources are devoted to building a culture which is to sign good character guys to support the youth on and off the ice.

This means, instead of going 100% into rebuilding the roster which would include things like min/maxing draft picks and salary, we maintain more of an 80-20 balance.

It may be confusing to some diehards looking from the outside but internally the front office, the team, and most fans understand this is the best way to go and people have bought in.

The rewards won’t be reaped until a cup is won, and even then, being an intangible, the culture that was built won’t be praised front and center or ever truly appreciated for how instrumental it was but nonetheless it will likely be the deciding factor if a championship is won.

This is incorrect because if rebuilding the roster "took precedence 80-90% of the time" then there would be more than the standard allotment of picks year to year. We haven't seen that, so it does not follow.

Further, there's no way to quantify the options forgone by refusing to weaponize cap space. So I'm unclear as to how you are 10-20% of their resources are building toward culture. How much of this roster is actually dead-weight veterans again?

Your balance markers are off.

You are also assuming that the fans that are confused don't also understand what they are doing, and are just not happy about it. Could that be a possiblity?

Last, how can you possibly classify culture as being instrumental to future potential cup wins when you have no way of discerning it's impact on prospects?

There are just too many holes in the logic of your post to be taken seriously. I would welcome a clarification.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

I can basically hear everything if I leave my door open. I’m in a corner office with an amazing view right beside Jim Benning’s for the rest of my contract, they just threw in a no movement clause near the end of negotiations.

Who is further up in the alumni hierarchy, Bones Bromley or Greg C Adams?

A little insider info if you don't mind.

Also, did Steamer come up with those hot dog recipes himself?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Did they spend to the cap last year? Yes, they went above the cap. Did they spent to the cap the previous year? Yes. The year before that? Yes.

Is this summer over? No. Do we know how much they're spending this year on their final roster? No.

Stop ignoring the facts in favour of what you think will happen. It's okay to project what you think will happen as part of your analysis as long as you take into account what has already happened.

Yes, the UFA's that were signed were to fill bottom 6 spots, so what? That doesn't mean you go out and grossly over pay for them. There are plenty of options still available who would have been much cheaper. There were plenty of better players who already signed elsewhere for much cheaper. The Canucks internally had options for the bottom 6 (including a player they brought back in Archibald). Notice how no one has complained about the Schaller contract?

So we're signing contracts now that we think will be bought out? You do realize that's piss poor management, right? Let me ask you this: when you think this team will start to be good again? Because if they're starting to be competitive by the end of these deals those buyouts are certainly going to hurt (especially Beagle's based on his bonus heavy contract).

How can you say they haven't been making moves to push for the playoffs? What else do you call spending to the cap signing veterans and trading away futures for now pieces?

How can you say they are rebuilding when they aren't bothering to acquire any picks and went into this past draft with a draft pick deficit? It's nice that you can list our prospect pool, but that doesn't mean they're rebuilding. Here's a list for you: Braden Point, Mikhail Sergachev, Anthony Cirelli, Andre Vasilevski, Mathieu Joseph, Alexander Volkov, Mitchell Stephens, Cal Foote, Brett Howden, Taylor Raddysh, Boris Katchouk. These are players all under age 23 for Tampa and they're their future core. And Tampa sure as hell isn't in the middle of what's supposed to be a rebuild.

So yeah, you listing a bunch of prospects the Canucks got, mostly because Benning failed miserably at what he was trying to do, doesn't mean they're rebuilding. Other teams have great prospects too. So again, stop ignoring reality.

Who is Benning going to move out for Quinn Hughes? I'll believe it when I see it.

Who the f*** cares they spent over the cap..What does it matter now?..Is it affecting anything now?..You're completely obsessed with something in the past that has no ramifications.

Who were the better players (4th line players that can play,not scrubs) available in this years UFA..?...How do you know that they would even come to a bottom 5 team?

A draft deficit of one 4th round pick...God forbid

In 2014 the Lightning already had young talents Steve Stamkos,Victor Hedman,Kucherov,Drouin.....Big difference from what we had..an old core and no prospect pool...Thats a nice list from Tampa,and they've drafted well,but I think its stretch to say that group will get anywhere near eclipsing their current core.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Yeah I'm so glad the canucks are overpaying Guddy by 3 M per year x 3 years to grow a mustache for movember and go to a local fire hall/police station and take pictures with the guys. He's such a good guy. And that's how you build a team, as Linden put it, "The kind of team I know can compete at an elite level for a long time."

You seemed obsessed with Guddys rugged good looks..not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Isn't it weird to think about that Benning may have ensured more prospects for VAN simply by being so bad at his job?

A competent GM maybe pulls out of the tailspin quicker. Or, makes the team good enough so as to prevent a top5 pick. There's a solace in Benning effectively keeping the Canucks in the gutter for an extra 2-3 years (or more). That's 2-3 extra top7~ picks. So even the time period where they tried to prop up the Sedins ended up being disguised high pick years.

The silver lining to incompetence?

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

You seemed obsessed with Guddys rugged good looks..not that there's anything wrong with that.

That jawline though. It's pure granite.