2018 Hall of Fame Ballot released (Vlad, Chipper, Thome & Hoffman are in)

[LeafsNation75]

And if closers can get in, DHs should too.

I guess it's assumed when eligible David Ortiz will get in on a 1st ballot, which begs the question why will Edgar Martinez likely make it on his 10th and final ballot? If someone can answer that without saying one played in Boston and the other played in Seattle I would appreciate it.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

I guess it's assumed when eligible David Ortiz will get in on a 1st ballot, which begs the question why will Edgar Martinez likely make it on his 10th and final ballot? If someone can answer that without saying one played in Boston and the other played in Seattle I would appreciate it.

I strongly disagree Ortiz will get in on the 1st ballot, if at all.

He's linked to PEDs via Mitchum report and he's a DH.

He is absolutely deserving though. One of the best hitters ever, clutch AF in the playoffs.

Edgar is will get in in the next 2-4 years.

 

[darko]

That would be a valid argument, again, if the MLB had a small annual limit like the NHL does.

If they were competing for seats, I could see the starters getting preference, absolutely.

The fact is, Hoffman didn't take Mussina's spot and he didn't take Morris' spot for all these years. The voters did because they didn't give those guys 75%.

Relievers don't have the body of work. Most don't even crack 1000 innings. They are equivalent to punters in football.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I strongly disagree Ortiz will get in on the 1st ballot, if at all.

He's linked to PEDs via Mitchum report and he's a DH.

He is absolutely deserving though. One of the best hitters ever, clutch AF in the playoffs.

Edgar is will get in in the next 2-4 years.

Whenever his name has been brought up on MLB Network they seem to think he's going to get in on the 1st ballot. They even said assuming Martinez gets in it will be easier for Ortiz to get in because the writers wont have 2 DH's on the ballot.

Now if he doesn't get in on the 1st ballot I guess he will eventually like Mike Piazza did, since he was suspected but never tested positive.

 

[Machinehead]

Relievers don't have the body of work. Most don't even crack 1000 innings. They are equivalent to punters in football.

And a handful of the most decorated punters of all time belong in the Hall of Fame.

 

[darko]

And a handful of the most decorated punters of all time belong in the Hall of Fame.

They don't.

 

[Machinehead]

They don't.

The Hall is about excelling at your job, not excelling more than a guy who has an apples-to-oranges different job.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Whenever his name has been brought up on MLB Network they seem to think he's going to get in on the 1st ballot. They even said assuming Martinez gets in it will be easier for Ortiz to get in because the writers wont have 2 DH's on the ballot.

Now if he doesn't get in on the 1st ballot I guess he will eventually like Mike Piazza did, since he was suspected but never tested positive.

I am a daily MLB Network viewer and id have to disagree with your premise. I really don't recall anyone saying or believing David Ortiz is a 1st ballot HoFer.

Ortiz' situation is different from Piazza as Ortiz was a platoon/AAAA scrub in Minnesota before surging as an elite hitter.

Edgar getting in would definitely help Davids case but I still see no way he gets in on 1st ballot

 

[Bjorn Le]

I strongly disagree Ortiz will get in on the 1st ballot, if at all.

He's linked to PEDs via Mitchum report and he's a DH.

He is absolutely deserving though. One of the best hitters ever, clutch AF in the playoffs.

Edgar is will get in in the next 2-4 years.

Ortiz will unequivocally get in on the first ballot. His reputation is not tied to PED use, like it is with Bonds, Clemens, Rodriguez etc. He's also universally loved, and he's from the leagues darling team Boston. People on the internet may care he's a DH but not journalists.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Ortiz will unequivocally get in on the first ballot. His reputation is not tied to PED use, like it is with Bonds, Clemens, Rodriguez etc. He's also universally loved, and he's from the leagues darling team Boston. People on the internet may care he's a DH but not journalists.

 

[Bjorn Le]

It's a joke but it's exactly why he's getting in first ballot. Also, by the time Ortiz is eligible, most of the writers who care will not be voting anyway. Combined with that (oh, and Manfred saying we shouldn't trust the alleged positive test and that it shouldn't impact his HOF chances), it won't matter.

 

[Neutrinos]

I have a hard time with Thome being elected, yet Delgado was off the ballot after just one year

It just doesn't seem like there was that big a difference between them as players

 

[hockeykicker]

 

[Neutrinos]

The Hall is about excelling at your job, not excelling more than a guy who has an apples-to-oranges different job.

While I agree, for the sake of discussion, where do you draw the line?

What about the game's best late inning defensive replacement?

 

[Machinehead]

While I agree, for the sake of discussion, where do you draw the line?

What about the game's best late inning defensive replacement?

The defensive replacement is already inherently an inferior version of the fielders that started the game.

Years ago you could say the same for the guys in the bullpen versus the starters, but I think that's changed and I think it changed a long time ago.

You can go all the way back to Sparky Lyle and Catfish Hunter in the 70's where the bullpen stopped being the backup starters.

I think I draw the line at legitimate backups - best defensive specialist, best platoon guy etc. Once you have a job like DH or closer and you start and finish the season with that job, you're not a backup anymore.

 

[Terry Yake]

hoffman and jack morris are in the HOF

hahahahahaha

also, how does jim edmonds fall off after one year but andruw jones gets enough votes to stay on?

 

[Filthy Dangles]

hoffman and jack morris are in the HOF

hahahahahaha

also, how does jim edmonds fall off after one year but andruw jones gets enough votes to stay on?

I mean Andruw only got 7% of the vote so he just barely made the cut. At their peaks, Andruw was better, IMO.

Arguably the greatest run saving CFer ever with 35-40 HR power for a decade plus. And then he turned 30 and turned into a below replacement player.

Johan Santana is like the pitcher version of Jones. Hall of fame peak, but rapid decline. He just fell off this ballot on his first try.

 

[Blitzkrug]

I think it's a bit of an indictment on closers in general when the best ever conversation basically starts and ends with Rivera.

Like no one is even close. He definitely deserves to be in but i seriously disagree with Hoffman or even Wagner eventually getting in.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

I think it's a bit of an indictment on closers in general when the best ever conversation basically starts and ends with Rivera.

Like no one is even close. He definitely deserves to be in but i seriously disagree with Hoffman or even Wagner eventually getting in.

Will be interesting to see how the reliever position evolves and if the 'super relievers' with guys like Andrew Miller and Chad Greens who can go multiple innings of shutdown work will challenge the conventional wisdom.

 

[darko]

The Hall is about excelling at your job, not excelling more than a guy who has an apples-to-oranges different job.

Don't know what football Hall is like but baseball one had high standards. Not anymore. Not after Hoffman and Morris.

Joe Nathan has a higher career ERA+ than Hoffman (151-141). I guess Nathan is a shoe-in for HOF.

 

[darko]

I think it's a bit of an indictment on closers in general when the best ever conversation basically starts and ends with Rivera.

Like no one is even close. He definitely deserves to be in but i seriously disagree with Hoffman or even Wagner eventually getting in.

Agree.

With Hoffman in Wagner is first ballot.

 

[darko]

I have a hard time with Thome being elected, yet Delgado was off the ballot after just one year

It just doesn't seem like there was that big a difference between them as players

Thome was better than Delgado by a fair margin.

 

[Terry Yake]

yeah i really don't get how delgado fell off after one year

 

[Cheese Wagstaff]

Closers should be in, but it's fair to hold them to a far higher standard than any other position. If Hoffman beats that standard then we have to seriously consider guys like Nathan, Wagner, K-Rod, and even Papelbon.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I have a hard time with Thome being elected, yet Delgado was off the ballot after just one year

It just doesn't seem like there was that big a difference between them as players

Maybe someone will say but Roberto Alomar was elected, however I wonder if Delgado playing in Toronto all those years hurt his chances of at least staying on the ballot more than one year?

Now this also might not be a fair comparison but there was that one writer from Chicago who had his voting privileges taken away who didn't have Delgado on his MVP ballot in 2003 because he played in Toronto and basically hated Canada.