Prospect Info: 2018-2019 Rangers Prospects Thread (Stats Updated 3.1.19) *Part IV*

[cwede]

...
2015 is looking like a really good draft and we're most likely going to come out of it with Huska.
2014 - Shesty 2015 - Huska 2016 - Reunanen, Wall
That looks like the haul for those three years going forward....

i think this is premature:"That looks like the haul for those three years..."

will all of Halverson, Gropp, Gettinger, Day, Fontaine, Ronning, Nanne exceed expectations?
no, not likely
But i am not as quick as some to count out ALL of them already

Yes there is a remarkable trend happening, with many kids making NHL impact very early in their pro careers.
But not every guy with a decent NHL career followed similar paths

 

[eco's bones]

Yeah I'd prefer he stay the senior year too, he'll only be 22, and no rush to get him to Hartford other than maybe not wanting to see him go the free agent route. If he's a senior about to sign an ELC and we possibly have all of Huska, Georgiev, and Shestyorkin in the system, he might want to look for playing time elsewhere. I would really finally like to see Hartford with a strong tandem of prospect goalies pushing each other, I think it would go a long way to steering the ship down there.

I don't have Huska ahead of Wall. They're both juniors and I basically see these guys as even. Huska has the WJC experience with Slovakia but stat wise Wall had a better freshman year--Huska had the better sophomore year and Wall's having a better junior year.....though UConn is not a particularly strong program and that may somewhat skew the numbers but even so Wall's .933 save % (last I looked) is f***ing outstanding. You really can't expect higher from a goalie in any college program. Wall is also the younger. So if push came to shove I would probably take him.

 

[Sarge13]

i think this is premature:"That looks like the haul for those three years..."

will all of Halverson, Gropp, Gettinger, Day, Fontaine, Ronning, Nanne exceed expectations?
no, not likely
But i am not as quick as some to count out ALL of them already

Yes there is a remarkable trend happening, with many kids making NHL impact very early in their pro careers.
But not every guy with a decent NHL career followed similar paths

I'll give you Halverson, yet another goalie, because he's shown some promise this year and goaltenders usually take a longer route to the pros, but most of these other guys are not going to move the needle much.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I'll give you Halverson, yet another goalie, because he's shown some promise this year and goaltenders usually take a longer route to the pros, but most of these other guys are not going to move the needle much.

That list is a huge part of the reason why Hartford has been as bad as it has over the past few seasons. The last three drafts are looking like they’ll help change that narrative, but we really do need to start seeing more than one singular talent per year to help move the needle in Hartford.

 

[Beacon]

I know everyone is excited about Tarmo and Uncle Joe, but I will say the same thing I once said about Kovacs - Allsvenskan is way, way below the NHL. Liiga is slightly better, but even the Liiga is significantly below the AHL. Geo was the best goalie in Liiga and yet struggled in Hartford to start the next year. I doubt anyone thinks Tarmo or Uncle Joe are the best players in their league in their position. I get that Allsvenskan is not exactly the same as a minor league, but it's the second tier in Sweden. If you look at the performance of players moving from Allsvenskan to the AHL (including, but not limited to Kovacs and Stromwall), it's pretty clear that it's closer to the ECHL than to the AHL in terms of talent, or at least ability to move from that league to the AHL. Malte and Kovacs were the two leading scorers on their Allsvenskan teams, then both looked incompetent in the AHL. And it's not just a coincidence, I repeatedly predicted exactly that.

Stajin should stay in Sweden until he proves himself capable of playing well in the SHL before jumping to the AHL because those two leagues are generally comparable. Tarmo should first be absolutely dominant and not just good in Finland because Liiga is worse than the AHL (though probably better than the ECHL). We don't need more Kovacs experiments where a prospects comes here, gets beat up, and then moves back on a ripped up contract, no longer our prospect. Had the Rangers waited another year with Kovacs, who knows how things would've played out. In 2017-18, he proved capable of being a first line SHLer. Maybe if he moved here this season, he would've been viewed as a good prospect, but worst case, he'd at least be a big help in pushing Hartford into the playoffs. Instead, he annoyed himself and the Pack coaching staff by arriving too early, and is no longer a prospect.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I know everyone is excited about Tarmo and Uncle Joe, but I will say the same thing I once said about Kovacs - Allsvenskan is way, way below the NHL. Liiga is slightly better, but even the Liiga is significantly below the AHL. Geo was the best goalie in Liiga and yet struggled in Hartford to start the next year. I doubt anyone thinks Tarmo or Uncle Joe are the best players in their league in their position. I get that Allsvenskan is not exactly the same as a minor league, but it's the second tier in Sweden. If you look at the performance of players moving from Allsvenskan to the AHL (including, but not limited to Kovacs and Stromwall), it's pretty clear that it's closer to the ECHL than to the AHL in terms of talent, or at least ability to move from that league to the AHL. Malte and Kovacs were the two leading scorers on their Allsvenskan teams, then both looked incompetent in the AHL. And it's not just a coincidence, I repeatedly predicted exactly that.

Stajin should stay in Sweden until he proves himself capable of playing well in the SHL before jumping to the AHL because those two leagues are generally comparable. Tarmo should first be absolutely dominant and not just good in Finland because Liiga is worse than the AHL (though probably better than the ECHL). We don't need more Kovacs experiments where a prospects comes here, gets beat up, and then moves back on a ripped up contract, no longer our prospect. Had the Rangers waited another year with Kovacs, who knows how things would've played out. In 2017-18, he proved capable of being a first line SHLer. Maybe if he moved here this season, he would've been viewed as a good prospect, but worst case, he'd at least be a big help in pushing Hartford into the playoffs. Instead, he annoyed himself and the Pack coaching staff by arriving too early, and is no longer a prospect.

That's not really up to him though. He is contracted to Leksands and unless they get promoted or his team agrees to a transfer, he can't play in the SHL

 

[Beacon]

That's not really up to him though. He is contracted to Leksands and unless they get promoted or his team agrees to a transfer, he can't play in the SHL

Usually European teams are pretty good about transferring players. First tier teams can normally pay the second tier enough to make it worthwhile if the first tier team thinks the player will benefit them.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Usually European teams are pretty good about transferring players. First tier teams can normally pay the second tier enough to make it worthwhile if the first tier team thinks the player will benefit them.

It isn't really that simple. A team like Leksands, currently in the fight for promotion, won't just sell players off for a little bit more money. If they don't win promotion, they are more likely to acquire players than to sell off their young contributing prospects.

 

[Sarge13]

That list is a huge part of the reason why Hartford has been as bad as it has over the past few seasons. The last three drafts are looking like they’ll help change that narrative, but we really do need to start seeing more than one singular talent per year to help move the needle in Hartford.

I think I agree with Edge, we need to get better veteran AHL players on that team. You can't send kids and Euro prospects we bring over down there and expect them to do all the heavy lifting and learning at the same time.

 

[nyr2k2]

I don't know. I thought they were pretty solid. Holland, Schneider, and Butler are excellent AHL pieces. Holland has been terrific. Butler has been unexpectedly horrible. His game died this year. Schneider was doing really well and that move, on the surface, was dumb. Beleskey is another guy that should be a very good AHL player. They also had O'Donnell to work on the fourth line. That's five forward spots on very good AHL players (O'Donnell being good as a fourth line player). You could maybe add one more guy up front, but anything more and you run out of space for your prospects. This also excludes guys like Fogarty and Nieves who were entering their third AHL season and kind of expected to step into more of a veteran, leadership role.

Defensively, it's tough. Your "vets" I guess are O'Gara and Bigras. Hard to really add a bunch of AHL veterans since we have a glut of prospects here, which will only continue.

I thought the roster was a playoff contender coming in.

 

[Beacon]

It isn't really that simple. A team like Leksands, currently in the fight for promotion, won't just sell players off for a little bit more money. If they don't win promotion, they are more likely to acquire players than to sell off their young contributing prospects.

You may be right, clearly you know more about Euro hockey than I do. But if his agent can't do something to move Sjalin to the SHL, then he needs to be able to abuse Allsvenskan. Not just a good, Kovacs-like performance where he's among the top guys on his team, but a Geo-like performance where he's viewed as one of a handful of the very best players in the league.

I see no reason to move him to the AHL unless he'll be very good at that level. Hajek, Lindgren, Craw, Day are all LHD and all should get better next year. OG or Gilmour may return, or another vet may be signed. The Pack doesn't need a borderline guy. Unless Calle can come in and be as good as Hajek and Lindgren (and they will presumably be better next year), he needs to stay in Sweden. No need to rush.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

You may be right, clearly you know more about Euro hockey than I do. But if his agent can't do something to move Sjalin to the SHL, then he needs to be able to abuse Allsvenskan. Not just a good, Kovacs-like performance where he's among the top guys on his team, but a Geo-like performance where he's viewed as one of a handful of the very best players in the league.

I see no reason to move him to the AHL unless he'll be very good at that level. Hajek, Lindgren, Craw, Day are all LHD and all should get better next year. OG or Gilmour may return, or another vet may be signed. The Pack doesn't need a borderline guy. Unless Calle can come in and be as good as Hajek and Lindgren (and they will presumably be better next year), he needs to stay in Sweden. No need to rush.

Sjalin is 19 years old. I don't expect him to light up the Allsvenskan at that age, but he's right up there compared to his age group. That's the type of comparison I look at for low round picks. They take longer to develop and them being top of their age group is what I hope for.

 

[kovazub94]

I don't know. I thought they were pretty solid. Holland, Schneider, and Butler are excellent AHL pieces. Holland has been terrific. Butler has been unexpectedly horrible. His game died this year. Schneider was doing really well and that move, on the surface, was dumb. Beleskey is another guy that should be a very good AHL player. They also had O'Donnell to work on the fourth line. That's five forward spots on very good AHL players (O'Donnell being good as a fourth line player). You could maybe add one more guy up front, but anything more and you run out of space for your prospects. This also excludes guys like Fogarty and Nieves who were entering their third AHL season and kind of expected to step into more of a veteran, leadership role.

Defensively, it's tough. Your "vets" I guess are O'Gara and Bigras. Hard to really add a bunch of AHL veterans since we have a glut of prospects here, which will only continue.

I thought the roster was a playoff contender coming in.

Also forwards line combos often didn’t make much sense to me, at least not on surface. I’d expect vets and prospects mix on each line but often saw overload of vets on one lines and prospects on others.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

I have not missed Beacon making weird comparisons about European Leagues that he obviously doesn't know the strength or structure of.

 

[eco's bones]

If I'm looking at our Euro prospects coming to North America next spring these are the candidates--Shesterkin/Shestyorkin--Kravtsov--Rykov--Reunanen. I wouldn't be bringing over 19 year olds playing in Allsvenskan and yeah it might be a bit of a reach for Reunanen but maybe not. I don't think he would do worse than Day and probably better than Crawley. If there are things that would hold him back--they're more or less things that younger players often have issues with--size/strength--getting use to a new culture--playing on a smaller rink.

 

[Beacon]

I have not missed Beacon making weird comparisons about European Leagues that he obviously doesn't know the strength or structure of.

If I didnt know that, my conclusions would turn out wrong. They usually don't. I obviously do know the strength of Allsvenskan compared to the SHL, or how well players transferring from Allsvenskan to the AHL perform because what I predict to happen routinely happens.

If youd like, I'll make a money bet with you that either the Rangers choose not to bring over Sjalin or if hes here, he's pretty terrible for the AHL. Not in his prime, that has yet to be decided, I mean immediately.

 

[eco's bones]

As far as Reunanen--he's 20 years old. He has decent size. He's the leading point producing defenseman on his team which is 4th in the standings right now out of 15 teams. He's become a key player for his team and he's come a long way in the past year. Liiga might not be on the level of the SHL or the KHL but the Finns have turned out a lot of good/very good and excellent players in the past and most of them spent their development days playing in their own home league. A couple years ago there were something like 8 of 9 Finns drafted in the first round. Reunanen's career path was set back by injury. He's over those injuries now and making excellent progress.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

As far as Reunanen--he's 20 years old. He has decent size. He's the leading point producing defenseman on his team which is 4th in the standings right now out of 15 teams. He's become a key player for his team and he's come a long way in the past year. Liiga might not be on the level of the SHL or the KHL but the Finns have turned out a lot of good/very good and excellent players in the past and most of them spent their development days playing in their own home league. A couple years ago there were something like 8 of 9 Finns drafted in the first round. Reunanen's career path was set back by injury. He's over those injuries now and making excellent progress.

What makes me hopeful for Reunanen's future, is that the talent was always there. He was projected to be a 1st round pick, on par with Juolevi. As you mentioned, injuries affected his progression. I think Reunanen has a better shot than Sjalin because of the raw talent

 

[eco's bones]

What makes me hopeful for Reunanen's future, is that the talent was always there. He was projected to be a 1st round pick, on par with Juolevi. As you mentioned, injuries affected his progression. I think Reunanen has a better shot than Sjalin because of the raw talent

I remember when we drafted him there was talk that he would or might have been a first rounder if he hadn't had an injury that ended his season early. Sometimes it takes a while for a player to get back to normal and that seems to have been the case with Tarmo. He's had a terrific year this year. We have until June 1 of 2020 to sign him--and personally for a player making the progress he's made this year I'd rather get well ahead of that deadline. I'd be very inclined to sign him this summer.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I remember when we drafted him there was talk that he would or might have been a first rounder if he hadn't had an injury that ended his season early. Sometimes it takes a while for a player to get back to normal and that seems to have been the case with Tarmo. He's had a terrific year this year. We have until June 1 of 2020 to sign him--and personally for a player making the progress he's made this year I'd rather get well ahead of that deadline. I'd be very inclined to sign him this summer.

We have another year, true. I don't see the rush. It's not likely he will refuse to sign with the Rangers if we wait until 2020. There are 3 games today that might be interesting to watch for Ranger fans in NY

12:00 PM:
Lulea vs Mora (Nils Lundkvist)
Orebro vs Djurgarden (Patrik Virta)

12:30 PM:
TPS vs Lukko (Lauri Pajuniemi vs Tarmo Reunanen)

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

 

[coz21]

It should be noted that Barron had a rough game tonight. Some of that is not being as fast as Yale, some of that is fatigue and some of it is missing linemates. With all the injuries up front, Barron has been affected the most basically slotting in with random guys every few shifts. Still got an assist tonight this was easily his worst game since November.

 

[Ola]

i think this is premature:"That looks like the haul for those three years..."

will all of Halverson, Gropp, Gettinger, Day, Fontaine, Ronning, Nanne exceed expectations?
no, not likely
But i am not as quick as some to count out ALL of them already

Yes there is a remarkable trend happening, with many kids making NHL impact very early in their pro careers.
But not every guy with a decent NHL career followed similar paths

Have anyone compiled some facts about that youth trend?

 

[egelband]

Yeah I was trying to plead Wall's case when the voting was going on, I definitely had him way ahead of the guy who was taken in round 2 last year.

I wouldn't mind him staying in college another year, there's no dire emergency for Wall, if anyone thinks that they're lying......

Best goalie name ever btw

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

If I didnt know that, my conclusions would turn out wrong. They usually don't. I obviously do know the strength of Allsvenskan compared to the SHL, or how well players transferring from Allsvenskan to the AHL perform because what I predict to happen routinely happens.

If youd like, I'll make a money bet with you that either the Rangers choose not to bring over Sjalin or if hes here, he's pretty terrible for the AHL. Not in his prime, that has yet to be decided, I mean immediately.

I wouldn't bring Själin over now so i'm not taking that bet, your evaluation of Allsvenskan and your comparisons in that post are still really off.