2018-2019 Blackhawks Roster

[Hawkaholic]

Hino resigned for 2 years.

Hoping for less than 2mil, 1.5-1.75 highest I would go.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Hoping for less than 2mil, 1.5-1.75 highest I would go.

1.5 it is.
Bowman getting it done!

 

[BK]

1.5 is a good deal. Potential steal.

 

[Hawkaholic]

1.5 is a good deal. Potential steal.

Hopefully. I am not as high on Vinnie as most, but he can provide depth scoring and 1.5mil is worth that.

 

[Blue Liner]

You honestly think Tavares will fall off a cliff in 2-3 years?

For me, it's different if the player is a superstar, as opposed to a secondary player like Nylander.

I don't THINK he will but then I didn't think Jonathan Toews would, either. I'm not comparing them as players directly but more the theme of players' trajectories from the age of 28/29 on. You also don't have to fall off a cliff to experience some decline in production, which statistically and factually speaking, the majority of all players do on the other side of 30.

Tavares likely remains an excellent hockey player, but statistics suggest his production will begin to decrease from what it was leading up to now, and you're going to be paying even more money for the same and likely even less production you are getting now, and that likely continues to trend further the closer to the end of that 6 or 7 years you get.

Is it stupid? No. I think it all depends on where your team is at and how close you are/feel you are to winning a Cup. But signing him to that money and term doesn't make sense for every team, and there is little arguing the caution and consideration you should give to giving someone at that age long years and big money. You have to be willing to acknowledge you may be sacrificing some things on the back half of that contract potentially and just decide if the first half is worth that gamble. It's a very safe best that JT is NOT the same player he is at 34, 35, that he is right now at 28. Does that mean he falls off a cliff? No, of course not. But he will almost certainly be passed his peak production and trending downward.

 

[ChiHawks10]

You honestly think Tavares will fall off a cliff in 2-3 years?

For me, it's different if the player is a superstar, as opposed to a secondary player like Nylander.

That's not what I said. But I would argue that a majority of players start to decline at the 28-30 years old mark. So you're going to be paying a lot of money, for a long time, for 1-2 years of current play, and 4-5 of declining play.

And... 3-4 years ago, I wouldn't have said that I thought Toews would decline so steadily/rapidly once he hit 27-28 years old. But he did. You just never know. Paying someone 22-24 years old big money for 6-8 years is much different than paying guys pushing 30 that same money/contract.

Like BL said, and I agreed with. You have to be extremely cautious with this kind of thing. The Zetterbergs, Jagrs, Chelioses, and Lidstroms of the world are few and far between. The exception, not the norm. Many guys are 4th liners/specialists, or hanging them up by their mid 30s.

So I prefer to exercise extreme caution in offering a 28 or 29 year old player big money on a long-term deal. I've had to say it a dozen times this summer already. Has the Seabs contract taught everyone nothing?

 

[Toews2Bickell]

I get it but it's also a much different story giving 6-7 years to a 22 year old all-star caliber player whose entire prime is going to fall within that contract window versus what was done with Seabrook at his age, point in career, etc. I get hesitating to give 6-7 years to someone who's 28, 29 or older, but I'm less concerned with it when someone's 22, 23. Just my take.

Leafs fans seem to think Nylander is worth Schmaltz or DeBrincat plus plus. Pretty comical. I don’t think people realize how good either of them are because every Hawks proposal seems to be “we need them and a lot more”

 

[Blue Liner]

Leafs fans seem to think Nylander is worth Schmaltz or DeBrincat plus plus. Pretty comical. I don’t think people realize either of them are because every Hawks proposal seems to be “we need them and a lot more”

Well, I think he is worth one of them but I'm not sure one of them plus. He's more established and done it for one more season but he's not Matthews, either.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Well, I think he is worth one of them but I'm not sure one of them plus. He's more established and done it for one more season but he's not Matthews, either.

Sure, at that point its a lateral move and no incentive for either team. But some Leafs fans think the Hawks would need to add the 8th overall.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Sure, at that point its a lateral move and no incentive for either team. But some Leafs fans think the Hawks would need to add the 8th overall.

 

[Blue Liner]

Precisely.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Should add Schmaltz for good measure. Don’t want to insult the Leafs with a lowball offer.

 

[Kevin Musto]

Leafs fans seem to think Nylander is worth Schmaltz or DeBrincat plus plus. Pretty comical. I don’t think people realize either of them are because every Hawks proposal seems to be “we need them and a lot more”

Which is hilarious. Nylander and Schmaltz are equal in terms of value imo. They're both 60 point players. DCat however is more valuable than both. Kid's gonna be a 70+ guy.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Which is hilarious. Nylander and Schmaltz are equal in terms of value imo. They're both 60 point players. DCat however is more valuable than both. Kid's gonna be a 70+ guy.

Countered with Seabrook and the 8th and that has not gone over well.

 

[Hawkaholic]

That's not what I said. But I would argue that a majority of players start to decline at the 23-30 years old mark. So you're going to be paying a lot of money, for a long time, for 1-2 years of current play, and 4-5 of declining play.

And... 3-4 years ago, I wouldn't have said that I thought Toews would decline so steadily/rapidly once he hit 27-28 years old. But he did. You just never know. Paying someone 22-24 years old big money for 6-8 years is much different than paying guys pushing 30 that same money/contract.

Like BL said, and I agreed with. You have to be extremely cautious with this kind of thing. The Zetterbergs, Jagrs, Chelioses, and Lidstroms of the world are few and far between. The exception, not the norm. Many guys are 4th liners/specialists, or hanging them up by their mid 30s.

So I prefer to exercise extreme caution in offering a 28 or 29 year old player big money on a long-term deal. I've had to say it a dozen times this summer already. Has the Seabs contract taught everyone nothing?

You said "We don't just hand out 7 year contracts to 29 year old players so that we can complain about the contract ad nauseum when said player inevitably falls off a cliff 2-3 years after the contract is signed?" So I assumed you were referring to Tavares falling off a cliff in 2-3 years.

Tavares has much more raw talent than Toews does, so i am not as worried about him not producing when his legs slow down a bit.

And Tavares shouldn't be compared to Seabrook. Ones a superstar C, the other was a good #2 Dman.

 

[ChiHawks10]

You said "We don't just hand out 7 year contracts to 29 year old players so that we can complain about the contract ad nauseum when said player inevitably falls off a cliff 2-3 years after the contract is signed?" So I assumed you were referring to Tavares falling off a cliff in 2-3 years.

Tavares has much more raw talent than Toews does, so i am not as worried about him not producing when his legs slow down a bit.

And Tavares shouldn't be compared to Seabrook. Ones a superstar C, the other was a good #2 Dman.

Nah, was just speaking in general. It's something to be very cautious with, IMO.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Tavares is a career .93 ppg player. Toews through the same age was a .87 ppg player (.85 career now). It's easy to say that Tavares is so much better than Toews and he won't decline in the same way, but the truth is they aren't all that difference in production to this point (age 27) of their careers. There's real risk there, even for a great player.

 

[Rolo]

Tavares is a career .93 ppg player. Toews through the same age was a .87 ppg player (.85 career now). It's easy to say that Tavares is so much better than Toews and he won't decline in the same way, but the truth is they aren't all that difference in production to this point (age 27) of their careers. There's real risk there, even for a great player.

One played with Kane, Hossa, Sharp on a 3 time cup winning roster.

One played with career AHLers P.A Parenteau, Matt Moulson and Kyle Okposo, Josh Bailey and Anders Lee, on a team that regularly misses the playoffs.

 

[Blue Liner]

One played with Kane, Hossa, Sharp on a 3 time cup winning roster.

One played with career AHLers P.A Parenteau, Matt Moulson and Kyle Okposo, Josh Bailey and Anders Lee, on a team that regularly misses the playoffs.

You mean, the Anders Lee that just scored 40 and 35 goals the last two seasons? He and Okposo are hardly chopped liver.

 

[Rolo]

You mean, the Anders Lee that just scored 40 and 35 goals the last two seasons? He and Okposo are hardly chopped liver.

Yes he's good, but Tavares is a large part of his success. No surprise this production spike occurs when he goes onto his line.

I'm not a Toews hater, but are we really going to say these two have comparable offensive talent?

 

[Blue Liner]

No, I wasn't making that argument just speaking more to those being better players than you're giving them credit for. Lee's been a 20+ goal scorer every season he's been in the league except one. It's not exactly like playing with Lance Bouma haha.

Tavaras is a more offensive talent and I don't think most people would argue that.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

One played with Kane, Hossa, Sharp on a 3 time cup winning roster.

One played with career AHLers P.A Parenteau, Matt Moulson and Kyle Okposo, Josh Bailey and Anders Lee, on a team that regularly misses the playoffs.

That's fair, but kind of irrelevant to weather or not his play will decline similarly.

No one knows the future and I agree Tavares is certainly the better offensive player, but they were on a very similar run, save for this year for Tavares (a contract year I might add.) I don't think Tavares will decline in the same rate Toews did, but no one thought Toews would either. That's all I'm saying.

Toews
Age 24 1.02 ppg
Age 25 .89 ppg (.13 drop)
Age 26 .81 ppg (.08 drop)
Age 27 .73 ppg (.08 drop)

Tavares
Age 24 1.05 ppg
Age 25 .90 ppg (.15 drop)
Age 26 .86 ppg (.04 drop)
Age 27 1.02 ppg (.16 increase)

 

[echlfreak]

Would Chicago grab Grubauer? He wants a trade, crow could or could not be back next season, might fill in well as a 1 like he did for the caps.

Otherwise, we are back with Forberg and Berube/Delia/Lankinen tandems

Cost? Forsberg, Duclair and a pick?

 

[Rolo]

Would Chicago grab Grubauer? He wants a trade, crow could or could not be back next season, might fill in well as a 1 like he did for the caps.

Otherwise, we are back with Forberg and Berube/Delia/Lankinen tandems

Cost? Forsberg, Duclair and a pick?

I'd imagine Calgary/Carolina offer more.

 

[ndgolden]

Yes he's good, but Tavares is a large part of his success. No surprise this production spike occurs when he goes onto his line.

I'm not a Toews hater, but are we really going to say these two have comparable offensive talent?

Here is some sobering information.

Tavares had 3 primary assists on those 35 and 10 on those 40. Lee has more primary assists to Tavares over the last two years.....