Bleach Clean
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2018-19 Utica Comets, Pt. VI
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UticaHockey
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The Comets can't seem to have anything nice.
Malone was a bright spot and now he's gone for the season.
Won't be a bit surprised if it's the last we see of him. Benning has seen fit to sign other NCAA free agents, but one who has proven some worth having scored 4 goals counting a shootout goals in 6 GP wasn't. Compare Malone's numbers with MacEwen (2 in his last 12 GP),Kero 3 in his last 11GP, Gaunce 1 in his last 16 GP, Pyatt with 1 in last 14 GP, Jasek 1 in his last 34 GP, and Lind 3 on the season and Gadjovich with 2.
Woo is assigned to Utica already injured before his arrival. I'm not convinced we will ever see him here again if he doesn't play before the season ends.
Eliot and Vanderlaan will be the help from Vancouver, LOL LOL.
No, that's crying out loud.
Malone was a bright spot and now he's gone for the season.
Won't be a bit surprised if it's the last we see of him. Benning has seen fit to sign other NCAA free agents, but one who has proven some worth having scored 4 goals counting a shootout goals in 6 GP wasn't. Compare Malone's numbers with MacEwen (2 in his last 12 GP),Kero 3 in his last 11GP, Gaunce 1 in his last 16 GP, Pyatt with 1 in last 14 GP, Jasek 1 in his last 34 GP, and Lind 3 on the season and Gadjovich with 2.
Woo is assigned to Utica already injured before his arrival. I'm not convinced we will ever see him here again if he doesn't play before the season ends.
Eliot and Vanderlaan will be the help from Vancouver, LOL LOL.
No, that's crying out loud.
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3 more home games. unlikely we win any of them. Best chance for a road win is 04/06 in Hartford. This season cannot end soon enough.
Been going to hockey games since 1968. This unquestionably is the most unwatchable team ever here.
UticaHockey
Registered User
So Mitch Eliot will practice but not play for the Comets which is actually a smart move. If he plays in a single professional game this year he would lose a full season of waiver exemption. This way he still has three seasons of waiver exemption instead of two (or 80 NHL games played)
Can this guy make any more ****ed up decisions?
Like Mitch Eliot is going to be important enough to worry about at the expansion day? Several Vancouver posters are already penciling him into the ECHL. He's an overage Jr with less than elite numbers for a player of his age. He's already a year and 1/2 older than the normal Jr turning pro.
This guy will have to light up the AHL to be a player they worry about losing to expansion. If they are worrying about him the team is already in the hand basket on its way to Hell.
This kind of talk leads me to believe that Benning sees him as one of the Canucks top D-men come expansion time and he would need to be one of the guys Vancouver would choose to protect. With the state of depth the Canucks don't have you have got to be kidding me!!!!!!!!
Like Mitch Eliot is going to be important enough to worry about at the expansion day? Several Vancouver posters are already penciling him into the ECHL. He's an overage Jr with less than elite numbers for a player of his age. He's already a year and 1/2 older than the normal Jr turning pro.
This guy will have to light up the AHL to be a player they worry about losing to expansion. If they are worrying about him the team is already in the hand basket on its way to Hell.
This kind of talk leads me to believe that Benning sees him as one of the Canucks top D-men come expansion time and he would need to be one of the guys Vancouver would choose to protect. With the state of depth the Canucks don't have you have got to be kidding me!!!!!!!!
Correct me if I am wrong. Eliot just came out of Jrs. He signed a 3 yr ELC. He doesn't turn pro until next season. ELCs ar not expansion eligible. Can't he come in on an ATO like Woo?
Doesn't his ELC slide due to the extra year in Jrs?
I am not a guru on these Jr issues so I am serious with these questions.
So, in essence Utica is a baby sitting service where the guy gets to practice, but won't play. Remember the **** the Vancouver posters gave Utica about Hutton (and who the Hell was the other player, McCann?) that wasn't given any game time at the end of the 2014-15 regular season?
Woo can't even practice? Came to town already injured? This organization is, to quote Wayne, MICKEY MOUSE.
Every team Utica plays has been loaded up by their parent clubs.
Meanwhile, the Comets are icing one **** goalie and another at 37. The fact that these 2 have contracts with Vancouver is the result of how badly Benning mismanaged the goaltending issue in both cities for a month.
Utica has used 17 D-men this season and the current top 6 will not include a single player under contract to Vancouver.
The one decent kid they did mange to bring in, C/LW Malone with 3 goals in 6 GP + a shootout goal, is now out for the season with an arm injury. 6 of the forwards will also not be on Vancouver contracts.
After 4 years of this kind of end of season abandonment of the farm it's shameful.
Doesn't his ELC slide due to the extra year in Jrs?
I am not a guru on these Jr issues so I am serious with these questions.
So, in essence Utica is a baby sitting service where the guy gets to practice, but won't play. Remember the **** the Vancouver posters gave Utica about Hutton (and who the Hell was the other player, McCann?) that wasn't given any game time at the end of the 2014-15 regular season?
Woo can't even practice? Came to town already injured? This organization is, to quote Wayne, MICKEY MOUSE.
Every team Utica plays has been loaded up by their parent clubs.
Meanwhile, the Comets are icing one **** goalie and another at 37. The fact that these 2 have contracts with Vancouver is the result of how badly Benning mismanaged the goaltending issue in both cities for a month.
Utica has used 17 D-men this season and the current top 6 will not include a single player under contract to Vancouver.
The one decent kid they did mange to bring in, C/LW Malone with 3 goals in 6 GP + a shootout goal, is now out for the season with an arm injury. 6 of the forwards will also not be on Vancouver contracts.
After 4 years of this kind of end of season abandonment of the farm it's shameful.
UticaHockey
Registered User
His ELC can not slide because he is 21 years old and was 20 when he signed his first contract. I think Ben Birnell emphasized the wrong thing in his tweet. Yes he would be eligible for the expansion draft but that is a low probability of happening anyway. The more likely scenario is that Eliot will end up being a multi year AHL defenseman like Sautner and McEneny and if he plays in a single AHL game this season he will only have two years of waiver exemption remaining. If he just practices with the Comets but doesn't get into a game he has three full years of waiver exemption remaining. There is no reason to burn off a year of waiver exemption to get into a couple games with this dumpster fire of a team right now.
Capfriendly does a good job of explaining it in the Waivers FAQs.
- For players whom are 20 or older, the year in which they play their first Professional Game (e.g. NHL, AHL, ECHL, KHL, European Leagues) is the year which is considered their first year towards the waiver exemption; however, the player must be under an NHL contract.
Waivers FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
VIPettersson
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- Apr 9, 2018
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COMETS SIGN AARON THOW TO ATO
Aaron Thow
6'1" 194 lbs LD Shoots L
COMETS SIGN AARON THOW TO ATO | Utica Comets Official Website
Aaron Thow
6'1" 194 lbs LD Shoots L
COMETS SIGN AARON THOW TO ATO | Utica Comets Official Website
Nice that they aren't being idiotic with Eliot.
Otoh, did they just burn a season of waiver exemption for Josh Teves, and by playing Brogan Rafferty tonight won't they be doing the same? (Both 1995 birthdays, Teves is already 24, Rafferty will turn 24 in May. Looking at Article 13.4 of the CBA it appears to me they lose a season of waiver exemption by playing them.)
One could argue they're old enough that they have to make it in one season or won't be good enough to matter, but it seems to me that if they succeed then a year and a half from now the most likely scenario is they'd be guys the team might want to have moving between Utica and Vancouver depending on the health of the guys ahead of them, guys you want to not have to worry about losing on waivers.
So Iassume Malone and Throw are NCAA ATO recruits collected by Pat Conacher. The Canucks made no announcement about the signings of these guys.
Interesting Benning can burn off a year from 2 yr ELCs, but Eliot is too valuable a commodity to burn 1 year off his 3 yr ELC. Apparently it would be too difficult to find an undrafted, overage Jr D, having put up 50-some points 2 years from now. Come off of it. Those guys are available every season. Chatfield was signed in March after his overage year. He had put up 28 points. In Utica he has mustered 13 points in 94GP. He plays as if he hasn't got an offensive bone in his body and forget offensive IQ. He doesn't have one.
At this point Eliot hopes to have achieved Chatfield level in 2 seasons.
Interesting Benning can burn off a year from 2 yr ELCs, but Eliot is too valuable a commodity to burn 1 year off his 3 yr ELC. Apparently it would be too difficult to find an undrafted, overage Jr D, having put up 50-some points 2 years from now. Come off of it. Those guys are available every season. Chatfield was signed in March after his overage year. He had put up 28 points. In Utica he has mustered 13 points in 94GP. He plays as if he hasn't got an offensive bone in his body and forget offensive IQ. He doesn't have one.
At this point Eliot hopes to have achieved Chatfield level in 2 seasons.
Don't talk such logical nonsense! Only most of the rest of the NHL management teams understand this voodoo mumbo jumbo.
UticaHockey
Registered User
Yes the way that I read it they will both lose a year of waiver exemption by playing in a single game this season. So they are making the smart asset management decision with Eliot but the dumb asset decision with Teves and Rafferty. But the Benning followers will tell you that is the only they could get them to agree to sign a contract with Vancouver.
Ok, there are people who will say that. Otoh, it seems farfetched.
I have trouble accepting that mere opportunity to make the NHL ahead of a weak defensive group is insufficient but if Vancouver is a complete pariah among college free agents I can understand the thought that signing a player for this season can help get him to sign. I don't accept that it is ALSO necessary to play him so as to burn a year of waiver eligibility and make him eligible for the expansion draft.
But then, asset management hasn't been considered a priority with the Canucks of the last few years.
Relative to 'expectations' this might be the most disappointing season since AHL arrived back in Utica.....once again the lack of depth in the organization was the reason for the playoff demise in both VanCity and Utica.
Prospects who came into camp with lots of tire-pumping, basically fell flat in Utica. And once again the blueline was hollowed by injuries. But the goaltending situation was the biggest headache. The Comets went through five guys; Demko, Kulbakov, Leighton, Mazanec and Bachman, and not sure anybody really grasped the mettle.
So it's back to drawing board for the both the Canucks and Comets. Benning seems to be signing a boatload of guys out of college ranks, but whether they make the AHL team any better in the long run is hard to judge.
But this organization just has to assume that guys are going to be felled by injuries and try to build up the depth. Easier said than done I guess.
Prospects who came into camp with lots of tire-pumping, basically fell flat in Utica. And once again the blueline was hollowed by injuries. But the goaltending situation was the biggest headache. The Comets went through five guys; Demko, Kulbakov, Leighton, Mazanec and Bachman, and not sure anybody really grasped the mettle.
So it's back to drawing board for the both the Canucks and Comets. Benning seems to be signing a boatload of guys out of college ranks, but whether they make the AHL team any better in the long run is hard to judge.
But this organization just has to assume that guys are going to be felled by injuries and try to build up the depth. Easier said than done I guess.
Not only is it the most disappointing relative to expectations, but this is the worst performance by a Comets team since they re-entered the AHL in 2013-14 as the Canucks' affiliate. This is the first time they aren't going to have finished with more wins than losses (given the way the standings are kept where OT and shootout wins are lumped in with regulation time wins while OT and shootout losses are shown separately.)
The injury bug has certainly hurt again.
Certainly even those of us who accept that starring in lower competition doesn't mean success in the AHL are probably surprised that each and every one of Palmu, Dahlen, Lind and Gadjovitch failed to succeed in Utica. Normally you'd expect at least one of them to come through.
I think there is more that has to be done about it than to "build up the depth" though.
1. You specifically mentioned the goalie situation. Kulbakov largely managed to hold the fort well enough early on. He faded later and the Canucks promoted their AHL goalie without having a replacement for him.
That's partly along the lines of building up the depth, but in this case the situation was clear. Bachman was already out for the season. The Canucks created the goalie problem by not having a replacement for Demko. Not only did they not build the depth, they actively tore it down.
If they were going to promote Demko even when he'd been out most of the season and on return was still working to get to the level of the previous season, then it must have been predictable that he'd be promoted. If that's the case, there was plenty of time to plan for his eventual promotion and flexibility to do it when they were sure of having a replacement for him.
It goes without saying that the replacements they came up with for Demko were almost certainly going to result in the Comets being weaker, but not having anyone to replace him didn't go well.
2. Bad Goalie was merely the most prominent and clear among those pointing out that the Comets were not a well built team, this year or in the past.
This time imo the biggest problem at the beginning of the season was a shortage of of AHL centres. Later on as system health improved that situation also improved, though it was then exacerbated by playing Gaunce at wing much of the time and only playing one genuine AHL center while playing potential centers on as additional wingers.
It's a big jump from junior to the AHL and it might have helped those players to have someone on their line knowing what he was doing and able to do it.
While Cull has his detractors and those detractors point to some legitimate issues, it's hard to blame him for putting one legitimate AHL line together so as to get some scoring. (It's easier to blame him for playing someone who was probably a capable AHL center at LW much of the season.)
There have been similar issues with the defence.
3. Ryan Johnson has been quoted as wanting guys with a burning desire to get to the NHL ahead of the ability to do it and, in another equally puzzling quote, saying the vets shouldn't be better than the prospects. (I didn't see that latter quote and am relying on other posters who have commented on it.)
If that is really his view, then I think it is wrong and a major flaw in the Canucks' development system.
Much as people don't want the kids to get no ice time because of the good veterans, it is even worse for many prospects to just flounder because the quality of linemates is hideous, passing and receiving passes an adventure and there is nobody to learn from.
Many people complain that the prospects aren't developing well in Utica. Most years there hasn't been much of anything to develop. This year I think we saw not only that the prospects were overrated, but that the team wasn't good at developing them.
It wasn't because of their lack of ice time. The ice time they got was in spite of their play, not because they'd earned it. When the team is built with the simplistic notion of staying out of the way of the kids' advancement, so making sure the veterans aren't very good, what happens? It isn't hard to see some basic results as we've all seen and experienced the problems that come with playing with poor players, though in the case of many of us it was in lower levels in minor hockey. This is high level and the differences between players much less than at lower levels, but the ideas aren't entirely different. Some of the simpler ways of developing bad habits are:
-when you don't get a pass when you go to the right place on the ice, you try going to other places in hopes they'll work better-or just stop looking for passes in situations where a good player will get you the puck
-when your pass isn't received, isn't converted on nor is the puck passed back to you when it should be, you start to make your own plays, leading to hogging the puck
-when your linemate or defensive partner is out of position, on defence, you try to cover for him and eventually when you are covering for someone continually you don't concentrate on being in the right position yourself
Generally the idea is that things that work with players you can count on don't work so well when you are playing with people that can't be counted on and that results in bad habits being formed or continued.
In my view the Comets current development ideas will only work for those few who are good enough to play without development, or are at least good and smart enough to develop regardless of their teammates.
I believe the idea that the way to develop young players is to provide crap for them to work with and learn from needs to change before the Comets can be successful, both at winning and developing young players. I believe the way the Canucks build their minor league team is flawed, beyond just dealing with the lack of depth.
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Exactly. I think BG is just drawing all sorts of wrong conclusions here. Forget the fact that from Canucks' fans' standpoint this is pretty much a standard asset management move. Benning haters will likely say that any competent GM should make this move as a matter of course rather than have him play some meaningless Comets games. Others would probably take a who cares approach where he is unlikely to amount to anything.
From a Comets' fans' perspective, this is a standard asset management move that management should be making. Like you said UH, his contract does not slide. It's the waiver eligibility that is at stake here. If Eliot has any potential to develop into an NHL Dman, why would you want him to burn a year of waiver exemption just so he can play some meaningless games down the stretch for the Comets?
Even if we are to assume that Eliot develops, this is a Dman you expect to spend the majority of his time in Utica over the next two years. It's year 3 where you would be happy to see him graduate or happy to see him return and play more games. Selfishly, you probably want him to be caught in the numbers game and be sent down due to the fact he is waiver exempt. It's a different story if he isn't and you just know that if he was lost to waivers or kept as a healthy scratch on the Canucks because they are afraid of losing him on waivers that Comets fans will look back and see that situation as completely avoidable if only Eliot was kept out of those meaningless few games.
Johnson hiring seems absolutely a Linden move. At the time of Johnson's promotion to the GM job in Utica, Linden identified Johnson as rising star in hockey management. Of course didn't hurt that Linden and Johnson were buds from their playing days. Really just one more example of the old boys system and the rewarding of alums.
Remember watching Johnson at the Summer Prospects camp and came away with the impression that he was trying to overcome his lack of experience with a lot of bravado. Like he was saying the right things but came across as kind of forced and phony. Like some teacher trying to overcome their nerves with a lot of posturing.
Ultimately his hiring in Utica appears a big mistake. The Comets could have gone and found a quality, experienced AHL man but instead used Utica as a place for Johnson to learn on the job.
One huge 'red flag' was when Johnson so eagerly pursued Wacey Hamilton and Carter Bancks and cited them as the type of vets that still had NHL potential. Even pushed Canuck management to have them play an NHL exhibition game b/c they might show enough to be considered for call ups. The absurdity of this thinking was again shown this season (as if previous seasons hadn't revealed in spades how low level these players were) when Hamilton scored 1 goal in 17 games and Bancks 4 in 63. Hamilton, in particular, has no business even being in the AHL let alone playing any in the NHL. Bancks, at best, is no talent, dime a dozen AHL checker. And, of course, Bancks is signed up again for next year.
Also, it was not only idiotic for Johnson to sign these players but in doing so he created a vet problem (too many vets for the playing time available) which messed up the lineup for the first month or so of the season. Moreover, these moves prevented looking for legitimate players to help the younger players
If this was the only mistake Johnson had made, it should have been enough for any competently run team to instantly ditch him. But, of course, there were countless other ones. The whole thing is shoddy mess and if the Canucks are to have any credibility they must can Johnson.
Remember watching Johnson at the Summer Prospects camp and came away with the impression that he was trying to overcome his lack of experience with a lot of bravado. Like he was saying the right things but came across as kind of forced and phony. Like some teacher trying to overcome their nerves with a lot of posturing.
Ultimately his hiring in Utica appears a big mistake. The Comets could have gone and found a quality, experienced AHL man but instead used Utica as a place for Johnson to learn on the job.
One huge 'red flag' was when Johnson so eagerly pursued Wacey Hamilton and Carter Bancks and cited them as the type of vets that still had NHL potential. Even pushed Canuck management to have them play an NHL exhibition game b/c they might show enough to be considered for call ups. The absurdity of this thinking was again shown this season (as if previous seasons hadn't revealed in spades how low level these players were) when Hamilton scored 1 goal in 17 games and Bancks 4 in 63. Hamilton, in particular, has no business even being in the AHL let alone playing any in the NHL. Bancks, at best, is no talent, dime a dozen AHL checker. And, of course, Bancks is signed up again for next year.
Also, it was not only idiotic for Johnson to sign these players but in doing so he created a vet problem (too many vets for the playing time available) which messed up the lineup for the first month or so of the season. Moreover, these moves prevented looking for legitimate players to help the younger players
If this was the only mistake Johnson had made, it should have been enough for any competently run team to instantly ditch him. But, of course, there were countless other ones. The whole thing is shoddy mess and if the Canucks are to have any credibility they must can Johnson.
UticaHockey
Registered User
But as Tyhee correctly pointed out where the Canucks are making the correct asset decision with Eliot they are making the poor asset management decision with Teves and Rafferty. For one meaningless game played they burned off a full season of waiver exemption. I know that they are both older players so their development curves will be different than Eliot but two years from now they could very well be NHL/AHL tweeners that you want to keep in the system and the risk is there that they will be lost because they played in one stinking meaningless game in 2019. For an organization that year after year doesn't have enough depth to cover the amount of injuries in Utica and Vancouver combined you would think that Benning would want to plan ahead and protect those assets for an additional year.
Last night IMac, in answering the question as to what was the deal with so many NCAA players getting signed by Vancoouver, told the Vancouver TV audience Hughes/Pettersson. The visible burgeoning talent in Vancouver was making Vancouver a destination good young hockey players were eager to join.
So which is it? The NCAA kids were eager to sign with Vancouver or the Canucks have to offer the college kids an NHL contract which immediately burns an entire year off their ELCs after any game played in the organization at any level based on their signing ages in order to keep them from signing with other teams?
These are 2 entirely different answers to the same question. If they were climbing over one another for the opportunity to play with such a talented on the rise NHL team with so many young stars, why would they have to bend over backwards to get them to sign?
So which is it? The NCAA kids were eager to sign with Vancouver or the Canucks have to offer the college kids an NHL contract which immediately burns an entire year off their ELCs after any game played in the organization at any level based on their signing ages in order to keep them from signing with other teams?
These are 2 entirely different answers to the same question. If they were climbing over one another for the opportunity to play with such a talented on the rise NHL team with so many young stars, why would they have to bend over backwards to get them to sign?
Blue and Green
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The promise to play in a game this year might've been part of what got Teves and Rafferty to sign with Vancouver rather than elsewhere. In order to manage an asset, first it must be obtained.
Teves and Rafferty are not "can't miss" prospects like Hughes. They are not first round picks. They are older, college players who, until recently, probably never thought they had a real chance to play in the NHL. Think of it from their perspective. This one game may be the only game they ever play in the NHL. But they will always be able to say they made it to the NHL. They played in the NHL. They reached the pinnacle. For players in their positions, having a guaranteed game would be a massive incentive and good reason for them to sign with a team willing to give them that opportunity. You think Griffin Molino regrets his decision? He made it to the NHL!
Yes, but the whole question is, "Does it make sense from pure hockey organizational logic?"
If you answer, "Yes" then please explain to me why the majority of the NHL teams didn't just do this and haven't done it in the past as well.
I recently posted a list of all 20+ non-drafted NCAA players who were signed within a 5 day period and every one of them was signed to an ATO and assigned to their AHL franchise. Only Benning is making a habit of signing all his college guys and burning off the 1st year of their ELCs.
Then I posted a list of high draft picks signed by their NHL team, but they were also assigned to their AHL affiliate. Only the pure blue chippers like Hughes are getting their feet wet at the NHL level.
I'm not whining about this as I know full well what to expect from Benning and how he will treat his farm. I am just comparing his treatment of NCAA players with how the rest of the league is handling theirs.
I will see Toronto, Wilkes-Barre/Scranton and Syracuse in Utica on the next 2 weekends and will watch them play Hartford, Hershey, and Providence on the road over those same 2 weekends. Then the season will end for the Comets. There will be plenty of NCAA players on the ice for the Comets' opponents during those 6 games.
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