2018-19 Tampa Bay Lightning Training Camp

[DFC]

Yeah - a few things.

One of the reasons I wasn't too worried about including Foote in a deal for Karlsson is that he is very much an unfinished product. There is no guarantee he becomes even an NHL defender, much less an impact one. He has the tools - great skating and good puck movement, but ****, so does Koekkoek. So did Barberio. So did Nesterov. It's hard to be an NHL defender. It's even harder to be a good one.

Cernak certainly seems to be close to NHL-ready based on reports. Foote less so.

His skating has also been reported as a weakness. IMO, if there's one flaw in the Yzerman philosophy of drafting, it's that he seemed to value size too much in defenseman (whereas he didn't seem to value it at all in forwards). There's a really old quote from Yzerman talking about how tough it was to play against Chris Pronger types, as opposed to smaller D who could keep up with him. I think he took that a little too far with his team-building, although he appeared to back off it more and more as time went on. For a little while, all our D were 6'3 and up, except Stralman.

All that said, I trust the reports on Foote from prospect-watchers. But I think it's best to temper expectations, and think of him as a top-4 guy with a ceiling of a #2, rather than a sure-thing top-pairing guy.

 

[The Macho King]

Serrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrge.

 

[Sky04]

His skating has also been reported as a weakness. IMO, if there's one flaw in the Yzerman philosophy of drafting, it's that he seemed to value size too much in defenseman (whereas he didn't seem to value it at all in forwards). There's a really old quote from Yzerman talking about how tough it was to play against Chris Pronger types, as opposed to smaller D who could keep up with him. I think he took that a little too far with his team-building, although he appeared to back off it more and more as time went on. For a little while, all our D were 6'3 and up, except Stralman.

All that said, I trust the reports on Foote from prospect-watchers. But I think it's best to temper expectations, and think of him as a top-4 guy with a ceiling of a #2, rather than a sure-thing top-pairing guy.

Yeah, we have definitely been leaning towards size and skill over brains on defense which is arguably the position that requires it the most. I mean just look at our defense the past 2 years, these guys were huge and yet that extra reach doesn't stop teams from hemming those big guys easily. Back in the day when those guys were big AND could hold/slash you they were tough - now a days not so much - I mean Ryan Ellis is half the size of Coburn but twice the player.

 

[The Macho King]

Yeah, we have definitely been leaning towards size and skill over brains on defense which is arguably the position that requires it the most. I mean just look at our defense the past 2 years, these guys were huge and yet that extra reach doesn't stop teams from hemming those big guys easily. Ellis is half the size of Coburn but twice the player.

It just seems odd because it's 100% opposite of how we target forwards.

 

[Sky04]

It just seems odd because it's 100% opposite of how we target forwards.

Yeah I mean it was likely just in the blueprint of building Yzerman's ideal team - you can't have a team full of midgets and the big defense was likely to offset the size/grit of the forwards - but some big guys who could skate and play the puck would've been nice.

 

[The Macho King]

#ALERT!

Edit:

Ignore. Video on twitter was posted weird.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

#ALERT!

Edit:

Ignore. Video on twitter was posted weird.

Now I am just curious to what the video was.

 

[The Macho King]

Now I am just curious to what the video was.

I thought I saw Sergachev wearing #7, but the film was edited to show #7 shooting (I am guessing Joseph) and then Sergachev shooting after.

 

[DFC]

It just seems odd because it's 100% opposite of how we target forwards.

I think Sky hit it on the head. Yzerman was likely using his own experience when it came to defensemen, and the ones who gave him a hard time, but those big bodies got away with a lot more than they do today. I think there's been a change in that philosophy over the years, mind you, but early on Yzerman definitely seemed intent on building a big-bodied defense. He still preferred D who could skate, but they were all massive, and some of them lost that ability as time wore on (Brewer comes to mind).

But anyway, I think we adapted in recent years, thus the not-quite-so gigantic defense we have now.

 

[TampaJay]

His skating has also been reported as a weakness. IMO, if there's one flaw in the Yzerman philosophy of drafting, it's that he seemed to value size too much in defenseman (whereas he didn't seem to value it at all in forwards). There's a really old quote from Yzerman talking about how tough it was to play against Chris Pronger types, as opposed to smaller D who could keep up with him. I think he took that a little too far with his team-building, although he appeared to back off it more and more as time went on. For a little while, all our D were 6'3 and up, except Stralman.

All that said, I trust the reports on Foote from prospect-watchers. But I think it's best to temper expectations, and think of him as a top-4 guy with a ceiling of a #2, rather than a sure-thing top-pairing guy.

This may not have been as intentional as it looks if you look at the Yzerman drafting. Koekkoek (#10) and DeAngelo (#19) were drafted for their skating and offensive, not for size. The next highest D picks were Masin (#35) and Hajek (#37), both average size. The two young Dmen with size, Sergachev and Cernak weren’t drafted by Yzerman. Foote was the only high pick when there were better skating, smaller more offensive Dmen on the board. For FAs and trades Yzerman brought in Carle, Stralman, Coburn, Sustr, Girardi, and McD. Only big ones were Sustr and Coburn and Yzerman gave up our poor man’s Pronger to get him.

 

[DFC]

This may not have been as intentional as it looks if you look at the Yzerman drafting. Koekkoek (#10) and DeAngelo (#19) were drafted for their skating and offensive, not for size. The next highest D picks were Masin (#35) and Hajek (#37), both average size. The two young Dmen with size, Sergachev and Cernak weren’t drafted by Yzerman. Foote was the only high pick when there were better skating, smaller more offensive Dmen on the board. For FAs and trades Yzerman brought in Carle, Stralman, Coburn, Sustr, Girardi, and McD. Only big ones were Sustr and Coburn and Yzerman gave up our poor man’s Pronger to get him.

I think Yzerman started changing the philosophy by the time we brought in Girardi. But I'm not sure how you're considering Hajek and Masin average sized. 6'2 is still above average in hockey.

Just taking a look at our list of draft picks though, and Slater is one of the smaller ones, and I'm pretty sure we liked his size initially. The only draft where we took more than one D under 6' was 2010, and we know Yzerman played a minimal role in that draft. And one of those D was Radko Gudas, and nobody's ever gonna call Gudas small.

Since that 2010 draft, we've drafted only two defensemen under 6'0, total, and one of them was Anthony DeAngelo, who seemed too talented to pass up. (Live and learn.) Nesterov was 6'0 even.

And there was definitely a point where we had a gargantuan defense. But I'm thinking this was more 2012/2013, or somewhere around that era. If I'm not mistaken, Matt Carle (6'1) was our shortest defenseman.

 

[TampaJay]

I think Yzerman started changing the philosophy by the time we brought in Girardi. But I'm not sure how you're considering Hajek and Masin average sized. 6'2 is still above average in hockey.

Just taking a look at our list of draft picks though, and Slater is one of the smaller ones, and I'm pretty sure we liked his size initially. The only draft where we took more than one D under 6' was 2010, and we know Yzerman played a minimal role in that draft. And one of those D was Radko Gudas, and nobody's ever gonna call Gudas small.

Since that 2010 draft, we've drafted only two defensemen under 6'0, total, and one of them was Anthony DeAngelo, who seemed too talented to pass up. (Live and learn.) Nesterov was 6'0 even.

And there was definitely a point where we had a gargantuan defense. But I'm thinking this was more 2012/2013, or somewhere around that era. If I'm not mistaken, Matt Carle (6'1) was our shortest defenseman.

I’m just saying sometimes there’s a bit of happenstance involved and not some grand design to build a team with small forwards and big Dmen. Big forwards like Brian Hart turn out to be a bust and a small guy like Gourde turns into an NHLer. They expected to have DeAngelo in the lineup at this point and instead they have Sergachev. Hearing Yzerman’s comments last year about Miller and Erne, he wanted more size up front, and I’m sure he wished DeAngelo would have become an Ellis. I just don’t see an absolute bias against big forwards or small Dmen. Sometimes, shit happens.

 

[DFC]

I’m just saying sometimes there’s a bit of happenstance involved and not some grand design to build a team with small forwards and big Dmen. Big forwards like Brian Hart turn out to be a bust and a small guy like Gourde turns into an NHLer. They expected to have DeAngelo in the lineup at this point and instead they have Sergachev. Hearing Yzerman’s comments last year about Miller and Erne, he wanted more size up front, and I’m sure he wished DeAngelo would have become an Ellis. I just don’t see an absolute bias against big forwards or small Dmen. Sometimes, **** happens.

It's not an absolute bias, but it's a definite trend. I don't think we go out of our way to draft small forwards; we just kind of ignore size when drafting forwards. But we really don't do that with D. DeAngelo is one of just two exceptions after 2010. I don't think it's erroneous to say we definitely lean, or at least in the past had leaned, toward defensemen with size in a way that never really mattered to us with forwards.

 

[Stormbreaker]

 

[Felonious Python]

 

[cphabs]

Hi everyone! How’s Sergachev looking?

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Our D looks like shit, need to get TVR to fix everything.

 

[God King Fudge]

Our D looks like ****, need to get TVR to fix everything.

I still don't think TJ is enough. He's a #3 d. Probably take an add from our end.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

I still don't think TJ is enough. He's a #3 d. Probably take an add from our end.

Could add Cernak or Foote...With TVR our right side is solidified and we wouldn't need them anymore.

 

[TeslaCoilFan]

Hi everyone! How’s Sergachev looking?

Saw him Sat. and Sun. at Training Camp and he looks excellent. Confident, smart, great offensive instincts and his defense has improved quite a bit. Been thinking that he might just be ready for 2nd pairing (unsheltered) minutes, probably with McDonagh since Serg did so well on RD after Mac came aboard and during the playoffs. Looks even more possible after Joe Smith posted the following tweet.


Called it.

 

[Rschmitz]

I don't agree with all of you who are invoking quotes from Yzerman's past to justify his philosophy of icing large defensemen. I remember specifically reading somewhere...2ish years ago, when a scout was quoted that Yzerman liked icing large defensemen because of the reach advantage, which helps mask other deficiencies from that position. I don't think SFY would be one who'd let his own personal feelings get in the way of his scouts opinions. The way I read it was that his scouting staff liked large D and it was an organizational philosophy.

 

[DFC]

I don't agree with all of you who are invoking quotes from Yzerman's past to justify his philosophy of icing large defensemen. I remember specifically reading somewhere...2ish years ago, when a scout was quoted that Yzerman liked icing large defensemen because of the reach advantage, which helps mask other deficiencies from that position. I don't think SFY would be one who'd let his own personal feelings get in the way of his scouts opinions. The way I read it was that his scouting staff liked large D and it was an organizational philosophy.

Yeah, but Yzerman, the guy at the top of the organization, did say it was harder to play against large defensemen. And it did, at least for a while, seem to be an organizational philosophy.

 

[Rschmitz]

Yeah, but Yzerman, the guy at the top of the organization, did say it was harder to play against large defensemen. And it did, at least for a while, seem to be an organizational philosophy.

The context of the argument was that Yzerman was using an outdated philosophy due to personal experience to form his opinion(that large defensemen once had an advantage in slashing and grabbing fast, small forwards) and that his justification was flawed. I'm merely pointing out that his justification(longer reach) is very valid in todays NHL. Hedman is one of the best defensemen in the NHL because of the gap control he affords himself due to his reach.

 

[TeslaCoilFan]

the 18th is the Bolts first pre-season game and I think you're right.

Does anyone have impressions on possible Orlando guys Bourke, Brassart, Barre-Boulet, Spencer, Somppi, Ouellette, Boes and maybe Tammela? (I think he was looking too good at the rookie showcase personally)

If you guys go to Orlando for a game, these will be the players you see.

Just for you!

ORLANDO PROSPECTS - overall impressions
Somppi - terrific camp, top of the list. Has a motor that just does not quit. Makes something happen even when not given much to work with. Impressed everyone.
Barre-Boulet - another little dynamo, slick moves, great shot also impressive
Spencer - not so flashy, but good solid player
Oullette (goalie) - probably the best of the prospect/AHL goalies after Ingram, managed to shut down Kuch and Stammer in practice a couple of times.
Bourke, Brassart and Tammela weren't bad, they just got overshadowed by the others.
Boes (goalie) - okay, but not as good as Oullette.

I'd love to watch them play live. Would be a fun, high energy game, I think.

 

[TeslaCoilFan]

Sunday Training Camp Impressions 2018

Missed the morning practice, but got there in time for the noon scrimmage and the following practice. Disclaimer: I am just a crazy fan, not a professional hockey scout so these are just my impressions from what I saw of the organized chaos on the ice.
NOON SCRIMMAGE - White (Stamkos, Kucherov, Hedman, Coburn + kids including Foote and Volkov) vs Blue (Johnson, Miller, Strålman, Koekkoek + kids including Sosonov and Somppi)
This was SUCH fun to watch!! No one was giving a half-assed effort in this scrimmage. The kids were playing their hearts out for the possibility - however slim - of a spot or even just to impress the coaches which how far they'd progressed. And the vets were playing hard partly to not be shown up by the kids. lol You'd think that the White team would dominate the Blue, not only because of all the All-Stars on it, but because the Blue team had already had their practice before the game. However, the scrimmage was pretty darn close! Huge amount of back and forth action.

BLUE TEAM VETS:
Johnson - Some nice agile skating. Looked like he might have a bit of his old zip back. Good faceoff work.
Miller - He can be an absolute beast along the boards at times. Looked a lot more comfortable and meshed well with Johnny.
Strålman - tasked with helping the kids shut down Stammer and Kuch and did an excellent job of it. He knows them only too well.
Koekkoek - Moved really well. Nice offensive flair. Didn't get that 'deer in the headlights' look as often when playing D. Hope he gets some more TOI so we can really see what he can do.

DYNAMIC PROSPECTS who stood out the most during the scrimmage:
Volkov - this kid is GOOD! I mean, scary good. More about him in the White Team write up below.
Somppi - was very impressive throughout camp Sat and Sun. Hard to stop when he's on a roll.
Colton - another excellent scrimmage for him, has a wicked quick shot
Barre-Boulet - very impressive debut! Has some great moves. Fun to watch.
Joseph - not as flashy as some, but solid playing
Spencer - same as Joseph, solid but not flashy work.
This is NOT to say the other prospects were bad, they just didn't make as big of an impression on me during this particular scrimmage.

There were a couple of shifts where Koekkoek and Katchouk were on the ice at the same time and I chuckled.

WHITE TEAM PRACTICE
After a break, practice resumed with the White team. Practice was very intense. Similar to yesterday's practice. Much emphasis on puck battles, defensive structures and speedy transitions. Ended with an empty net shot contest from one end to the far net. If you missed the EN, you had to skate all the way down the ice to retrieve your puck. Kuch, Stammer and Heddy all had to skate down the ice. hehehe

VETS
Stamkos - typical Stammer. Zipping around like he'd never been hurt. Already in sync with Kuch. Put in some extra work on his one-timer with Heddy and Kuch.
Kucherov - I swear he found another gear! Fast, devious, sneaky little bastard. His passing and his deceptive release was in top form already.
Hedman - It's just not fair how good Heddy can skate considering his size!! He's halfway across the rink before a forward knows he's there. Don't think he'll have the relatively slow start he had last season. Did get a giggle from his lack of accuracy when he, Kuch and Stammer were all working on their power play passing/one-timers/slapshots. I just kept thinking of the ongoing joke that it's not a game unless Heddy shoots at least one wide.
Coburn - Solid positioning as usual but looked just a wee bit slower than last season's playoffs.

WHITE TEAM PROSPECTS WHO STOOD OUT
Volkov - holy crap is this kid amazing! Even better than last year's camp. Faster and sneakier. At the end of practice, he and Kuch spent some time working on "sneakiness" drills together, stick handling around each other's feet and sticks. I swear he's Kuch's mini-me. I would NOT be surprised to see him make the roster.
Colton - just plain good. Really, really good release. Had great offensive instincts
Ouellette - this kid goalie managed to shut down both Stammer and Kuch a couple of times during practice.

Other prospects were there and they weren't bad, but they just didn't stand out like those three did.