2018-19 Roster talk; Part three

[Outlaw Samurai]

It will be interesting for us the next few weeks. I wonder if there's some major shake up in the works.

Trouba or Pietrangelo? Tarasenko?

 

[trostol]

wonder if they talk to G about any of this..not to get his ok but to let him know.."hey we might b going in a new younger direction at some point"

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

wonder if they talk to G about any of this..not to get his ok but to let him know.."hey we might b going in a new younger direction at some point"

That's an interesting thought. I sure would if I had a true stud and loyal team player like G. Not so much to get his approval but to at least let him know things are in the works to improve the team.

 

[Tripod]

They should just say to him, "we are going to get you some help between now and next season. Be ready for changes"

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

And give him a jewel-encrusted key to the executive shitter. Not to mention unlimited Philly cheesesteaks.

 

[trostol]

i was more interested if G is up for another..rebuild lol or i should say..an actual one..though not holding my breath that is gonna happen

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

@Tripod

What's this interest in Pesce I keep seeing. You leading the charge on that?

 

[OrangeAndBlackMetal]

I’m half expecting to get an alert of my phone one day saying that G has requested a trade. Wouldn’t be surprised tbh.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

i was more interested if G is up for another..rebuild lol or i should say..an actual one..though not holding my breath that is gonna happen

He's good for the upcoming re-tool

He's definitely young enough to be part of the core. If he was in his mid to late 30's maybe not, but G still bleeds orange.

Our pets heads are falling off, but we're not far from flipping this around.

 

[Tripod]

@Tripod

What's this interest in Pesce I keep seeing. You leading the charge on that?

Here is my thinking. I want a Dman that we can plant next to Provy to go against top lines. We don't have anyone that SHOULD be in that spot that plays the right side. Provy has had to try and carry others and I do think mentally it has taken a toll on him. In this sitch, Provy can lean on Pesce instead which I think would really help. I am thinking that to shut down a top line in a long playoff run, we need to have a pairing that just locks things down. This "should" do that if Provy gets back to his usual ways.

2nd...look at the UFA's available. Very few D available as it is besides EK and Stralman that I even bother with. Wingers are always going to be the easiest to find.

So my thinking is that we fill that D hole with a winger, then go big game hunting for wingers to replace Jake.

Then add in that Pesce is signed for 5 more years after this one for 4.025 million. So all the sudden, you have him and Ghost signed for 4 or 5 years and for 4.5 and under each. All the sudden, talking to Provy and his agent becomes easier in that "we have comparables on the team signed for...." It could lead to a very good contract for Provy...and then also the other young D on the way that would follow.

Some will remember that about 5 years ago...not sure the exact time....but I was really pushing a Simmonds for Josi deal before Josi's value jumped way up. I see this as a similar situation. And for a team like Carolina, they have the extra RHD, are looking to make their won "slash", and want more offense from forwards. They are also less likely to be a destination for big named FA so are more likely to add that thru trades. I think it fits.

And note, I think the Canes would need to add. But it would fill a hole for us for 5 years. Next year:

Provy Pesce
Sanheim Gudas
Ghost Myers
Morin

Once Gudas leaves:

Provy Pesce
Sanheim Myers
Morin Ghost

 

[BernieParent]

What are the odds EK makes it to FA? 50/50? Im sure SJ will be working on him to sign after the TD.

I read how he's not thinking long term contract at this point..hard to say if it's posturing or if he's politely saying (without saying) he's not going to sign there.

I don't see how the Sharks would be able to resign Karlsson. They have $15 million tied up until the Rapture in Burns and Vlasic, $24 million next season for 6 forwards, and $7.6 million worth of goaltenders. Projected $23.4 million cap space with only 13 players signed next season, and that is with letting Pavelski and Thornton walk and that doesn't take into account reupping RFA Meier.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I'd make a serious offer for Panarin. Ek is going to get an astronomical deal and I'm a little hesitant. Id float something but he'll get better offers. I think next year is wjen the young talent is really going to start making a push

And Panarin wont? He is going to get 10-11 per on the open market times 7 or 8 depending on if CBJ brings him back

 

[TheKingPin]

Here is my thinking. I want a Dman that we can plant next to Provy to go against top lines. We don't have anyone that SHOULD be in that spot that plays the right side. Provy has had to try and carry others and I do think mentally it has taken a toll on him. In this sitch, Provy can lean on Pesce instead which I think would really help. I am thinking that to shut down a top line in a long playoff run, we need to have a pairing that just locks things down. This "should" do that if Provy gets back to his usual ways.

2nd...look at the UFA's available. Very few D available as it is besides EK and Stralman that I even bother with. Wingers are always going to be the easiest to find.

So my thinking is that we fill that D hole with a winger, then go big game hunting for wingers to replace Jake.

Then add in that Pesce is signed for 5 more years after this one for 4.025 million. So all the sudden, you have him and Ghost signed for 4 or 5 years and for 4.5 and under each. All the sudden, talking to Provy and his agent becomes easier in that "we have comparables on the team signed for...." It could lead to a very good contract for Provy...and then also the other young D on the way that would follow.

Some will remember that about 5 years ago...not sure the exact time....but I was really pushing a Simmonds for Josi deal before Josi's value jumped way up. I see this as a similar situation. And for a team like Carolina, they have the extra RHD, are looking to make their won "slash", and want more offense from forwards. They are also less likely to be a destination for big named FA so are more likely to add that thru trades. I think it fits.

And note, I think the Canes would need to add. But it would fill a hole for us for 5 years. Next year:

Provy Pesce
Sanheim Gudas
Ghost Myers
Morin

Once Gudas leaves:

Provy Pesce
Sanheim Myers
Morin Ghost

I’m certainly down for that, but it seems like the canes fans don’t like Jake for Pesce swap let alone a + coming back.

He's not my first choice, but you're awfully dismissive of Skinner's career prior to this one. I mean, he just had 37 goals last season. He had three 30 goal seasons prior to this year in fact. This year he has a shot at 50 goals due to his crazy high shooting percentage so far. He's a good player.

Not my first choice either. He’s a good player but you have to becareful of a guy coming off a contract year and a big trade that goes off. Those are both very motivating. He should be paid like a 30 goal 60-70 pt guy. I think he will.

It's actually really feasible, a scenario where we trade for Tarasenko with Voracek +
Sign Panarin
And have a 2nd line of:
Panarin-Patrick-Tarasenko
It will be also possible to sign Stralman
Assuming you have Simmonds, Weise, Raffl, Voracek, Hagg out.

I just don’t see us getting Tarasenko. It would be a mistake for the blues to trade him. If they did it would be for a lot. Voracek plus some big pieces like maybe Frost. He’s one of the best goal scorers in the league. I would be good with

Panarin - Patrick - Stone

Or

Panarin - Hughes - Stone

What are the odds EK makes it to FA? 50/50? Im sure SJ will be working on him to sign after the TD.

I read how he's not thinking long term contract at this point..hard to say if it's posturing or if he's politely saying (without saying) he's not going to sign there.

I think he’s just being polite. I’m sure he wants to at least look at the market. What loyalty does he have to the sharks? Nothing at all.

 

[TCTC]

What are the odds EK makes it to FA? 50/50? Im sure SJ will be working on him to sign after the TD.

I read how he's not thinking long term contract at this point..hard to say if it's posturing or if he's politely saying (without saying) he's not going to sign there.

I'm pretty sure he wants to stay if they can afford him. San Jose is in win now mode. They have a solid core. What more could he want?

Players always seem to like it in San Jose. You rarely see someone leave the Sharks as FA.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I'm all for upgrading whatever, but why does everything need to be all lined up for Provorov to play well?

Why not just play Gudas on the top pair?

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

Here is my thinking. I want a Dman that we can plant next to Provy to go against top lines. We don't have anyone that SHOULD be in that spot that plays the right side. Provy has had to try and carry others and I do think mentally it has taken a toll on him. In this sitch, Provy can lean on Pesce instead which I think would really help. I am thinking that to shut down a top line in a long playoff run, we need to have a pairing that just locks things down. This "should" do that if Provy gets back to his usual ways.

2nd...look at the UFA's available. Very few D available as it is besides EK and Stralman that I even bother with. Wingers are always going to be the easiest to find.

So my thinking is that we fill that D hole with a winger, then go big game hunting for wingers to replace Jake.

Then add in that Pesce is signed for 5 more years after this one for 4.025 million. So all the sudden, you have him and Ghost signed for 4 or 5 years and for 4.5 and under each. All the sudden, talking to Provy and his agent becomes easier in that "we have comparables on the team signed for...." It could lead to a very good contract for Provy...and then also the other young D on the way that would follow.

Some will remember that about 5 years ago...not sure the exact time....but I was really pushing a Simmonds for Josi deal before Josi's value jumped way up. I see this as a similar situation. And for a team like Carolina, they have the extra RHD, are looking to make their won "slash", and want more offense from forwards. They are also less likely to be a destination for big named FA so are more likely to add that thru trades. I think it fits.

And note, I think the Canes would need to add. But it would fill a hole for us for 5 years. Next year:

Provy Pesce
Sanheim Gudas
Ghost Myers
Morin

Once Gudas leaves:

Provy Pesce
Sanheim Myers
Morin Ghost

It's just crazy enough to work!

Seriously, I love the idea of a shut down pair. Giving Provy an RD who's very good in his own end and can still get the puck out. He's young enough (and as you said, signed for 5 more years at a very good cap hit) to fit in with our D.

It's a little scary picturing our inept offence without V but assuming they hit FA running, they can replace him.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

I'm pretty sure he wants to stay if they can afford him. San Jose is in win now mode. They have a solid core. What more could he want?

Players always seem to like it in San Jose. You rarely see someone leave the Sharks as FA.

Yeah, it looks like a beautiful place to live. Wouldn't blame him for settling there.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

I’m certainly down for that, but it seems like the canes fans don’t like Jake for Pesce swap let alone a + coming back.



Not my first choice either. He’s a good player but you have to becareful of a guy coming off a contract year and a big trade that goes off. Those are both very motivating. He should be paid like a 30 goal 60-70 pt guy. I think he will.



I just don’t see us getting Tarasenko. It would be a mistake for the blues to trade him. If they did it would be for a lot. Voracek plus some big pieces like maybe Frost. He’s one of the best goal scorers in the league. I would be good with

Panarin - Patrick - Stone

Or

Panarin - Hughes - Stone



I think he’s just being polite. I’m sure he wants to at least look at the market. What loyalty does he have to the sharks? Nothing at all.

Yes, please. I would very much like to watch that line!

Although, it might go -

G Coots Stone
Panarin Hughes TK

 

[Magua]

Here is my thinking. I want a Dman that we can plant next to Provy to go against top lines. We don't have anyone that SHOULD be in that spot that plays the right side. Provy has had to try and carry others and I do think mentally it has taken a toll on him. In this sitch, Provy can lean on Pesce instead which I think would really help. I am thinking that to shut down a top line in a long playoff run, we need to have a pairing that just locks things down. This "should" do that if Provy gets back to his usual ways.

*snip*

Some will remember that about 5 years ago...not sure the exact time....but I was really pushing a Simmonds for Josi deal before Josi's value jumped way up. I see this as a similar situation.

Pesce is a solid top 4 defenseman. If there was a logical trade for him, I'd explore it. Trading a 1st line 70-80 point caliber player for a defensive defenseman (which is what Pesce is) is no bueno to me. Voracek is not Hall and Pesce is not Larsson, but that's the type of trade that is. A team need does not make value equal. Team scoring is a pretty big need to, and it robs Peter to pay Paul. And finding your next top 4 defensive d-man is a lot easier than your next star winger. Carolina would have to add a pretty damn big plus.

Pesce's upside is......this. Just for more years. He's not Josi; he doesn't have much offensive talent. He's basically a better, younger Gudas. There's nothing wrong with him; I value him. But I also deeply philosophically disagree that Provorov needs a "shutdown" partner for a "shutdown" pairing. You want your best players who impact the game positively the most ways playing the most minutes. It also absolves Provorov. Who's to say Sanheim-Pesce wouldn't be a better pairing in a better top 4? Why do we have to find Provorov the perfect partner and not others? #1 defensemen are supposed to make others better, not the other way around.

How about expansion? How will you protect Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim, Pesce, Myers? Willing to expose 1 of them, even if you go 4-4? Who would you expose?

 

[Tripod]

I’m certainly down for that, but it seems like the canes fans don’t like Jake for Pesce swap let alone a + coming back.



Not my first choice either. He’s a good player but you have to becareful of a guy coming off a contract year and a big trade that goes off. Those are both very motivating. He should be paid like a 30 goal 60-70 pt guy. I think he will.



I just don’t see us getting Tarasenko. It would be a mistake for the blues to trade him. If they did it would be for a lot. Voracek plus some big pieces like maybe Frost. He’s one of the best goal scorers in the league. I would be good with

Panarin - Patrick - Stone

Or

Panarin - Hughes - Stone



I think he’s just being polite. I’m sure he wants to at least look at the market. What loyalty does he have to the sharks? Nothing at all.

To address the Canes aspect...they were ok with Pesce for Nylander. They big hesitation with Jake is age. But they don't make the decisions....lol. The Canes have an owner who wants to make big moves. Adding a winger who can be a PPG is not anything to just dismiss especially when they would be dealing from a strength and Jake is signed for 5 more years. So they would not have to worry about him bolting in 1-2 years.

Would not add Frost to Jake for Tank. Jake outproduced him last year, and is this year. The difference is not Frost. We need to keep Frost and Patrick in case the other does not develop as expected. Whoever rises is the 2nd line C, the other the 3rd.

As far as EK goes, I believe after the deadline day, he is able to sign a 8 year deal with SJ. So it makes sense to wait until after then anyways as opposed to signing today.

 

[Psuhockey]

I'm all for upgrading whatever, but why does everything need to be all lined up for Provorov to play well?

Why not just play Gudas on the top pair?

Because the people that run the team hate that idea and will never do it. That’s the only reason I can come up with why it has never been tried.

 

[renberg]

I'm sure that Giroux knows what's going on with this club. He's been around the League long enough and through enough to get it. The FO, unless they're totally ignorant, has talked with him about what their vision of his role for the future will be. He's the captain, face of the franchise, and will be the most important player on the roster for the future. If he doesn't want that role, the FO will know that and move him with his approval. He might want out but I doubt it.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

Expansion...forgot about that looming.

 

[TCTC]

Expansion...forgot about that looming.

True. But we can't be stingy because of expansion. We have to start building a contender now. If that means losing a valuable player on the way, so be it.

 

[Tripod]

Pesce is a solid top 4 defenseman. If there was a logical trade for him, I'd explore it. Trading a 1st line 70-80 point caliber player for a defensive defenseman (which is what Pesce is) is no bueno to me. Voracek is not Hall and Pesce is not Larsson, but that's the type of trade that is. A team need does not make value equal. Team scoring is a pretty big need to, and it robs Peter to pay Paul. And finding your next top 4 defensive d-man is a lot easier than your next star winger. Carolina would have to add a pretty damn big plus.

Pesce's upside is......this. Just for more years. He's not Josi; he doesn't have much offensive talent. He's basically a better, younger Gudas. There's nothing wrong with him; I value him. But I also deeply philosophically disagree that Provorov needs a "shutdown" partner for a "shutdown" pairing. You want your best players who impact the game positively the most ways playing the most minutes. It also absolves Provorov. Who's to say Sanheim-Pesce wouldn't be a better pairing in a better top 4?

How about expansion? How will you protect Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim, Pesce, Myers? Willing to expose 1 of them, even if you go 4-4?

All fair to say.

I agree Pesce does not have Josi upside in offense and I did not mean to imply that I did. I only mention that deal as one that I started to obsess over...lol.

As for Provy, that's not what I meant. I have said in GDT's that he has made mental mistakes that have nothing to do with any possible injuries issues that could be lingering.

I guess deep down, I want what others have been able to throw at us at times. The NYR would eliminate Giroux with McDonough every single time we play them. We have no Dman that other teams top lines are trying to get away from. And I don't believe having Ghost on the top pairing, or Sanheim, or Myers will do that either. And I want that.

As for expansion, I have come to grips that we are losing someone good. We can't protect them all. We already have 4 in Provy, Ghost, Trav and Myers....leaving G, TK, Couts and Patrick if we go 4/4. So should we be afraid to add any good forwards too? No. So instead of being afraid for who might get taken in 2 years, add depth at both so that the hit you take, can be absorbed and someone else is ready to step into that spot. Instead of being scared of having 4 Dman and losing 1, add another so that when we inevitable do lose a Dman, we still have a solid 4 no matter what after expansion.