Line Combos: 2018/19 Roster Discussion

[JPeeper]

Originally Peters wanted to try Lindy and Tkachuk on the top line RW and even Bennett on the right side, but with Neal being signed I am fairly confident Neal will be the top line RW, which should pay off dividends with Neal surely getting 30+ goals. That leaves Lindholm as either the 2nd line RW or 2nd line center pushing Backlund down to the 3rd line, which opens up the RW 2nd line spot for Tkachuk or Bennett (while the other plays LW). Lindholm at center is the only real way I see Bennett sliding into the top 6 with the talent the Flames have acquired this off season. If that happens though you slide Backs into the 3rd line center role and have Janko on the 4th, cause I don't think we should put him on the wing, he needs development time at center.

Pre-season will certainly be interesting with all the line juggling and combinations that will be tried.

I was hopeful for last season when we acquired Smith and Hamonic, but I think I am even more optimistic for this upcoming season with all the forward signings we made and the big trade which brought in Hanifin and Lindholm and moving Brodie back with Gio.

 

[Volica]

So, this is something I have been thinking about quite a bit over the past few days.
If Lindholm's a natural centre, he's already top end two-way, would it be a good idea to move him down the middle to stack down centre?

Like last year, one of our big problems, was that 3/4 of our centres had to be protected at any time. Monahan loses tough match-ups (he's getting better at it, though), Jankowski was taken to task several times last year, especially when other teams' got their top players out against Janko... and we all know the Stajan/4th line tire fire. More or less Backlund was the only guy you were 100% comfortable with when he was out there.

If we slide Backs down to 3C, and still make him the heavy lifter (in terms of the nasty match-ups), having:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Neal
Tkachuk - Lindholm - Bennett
Frolik - Backlund - Ryan
X - Jankowski - Czarnik

Does that balance out the lines more? It does give us a righty centre every day, and the bottom two lines have two natural centremen each too.

 

[DFF]

So, this is something I have been thinking about quite a bit over the past few days.
If Lindholm's a natural centre, he's already top end two-way, would it be a good idea to move him down the middle to stack down centre?

Like last year, one of our big problems, was that 3/4 of our centres had to be protected at any time. Monahan loses tough match-ups (he's getting better at it, though), Jankowski was taken to task several times last year, especially when other teams' got their top players out against Janko... and we all know the Stajan/4th line tire fire. More or less Backlund was the only guy you were 100% comfortable with when he was out there.

If we slide Backs down to 3C, and still make him the heavy lifter (in terms of the nasty match-ups), having:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Neal
Tkachuk - Lindholm - Bennett
Frolik - Backlund - Ryan
X - Jankowski - Czarnik

Does that balance out the lines more? It does give us a righty centre every day, and the bottom two lines have two natural centremen each too.

They traded for Neal and Lindholm to improve the RW depth, not sure why they would turn around and make Bennett play his off wing now.

 

[Fig]

So, this is something I have been thinking about quite a bit over the past few days.
If Lindholm's a natural centre, he's already top end two-way, would it be a good idea to move him down the middle to stack down centre?

Like last year, one of our big problems, was that 3/4 of our centres had to be protected at any time. Monahan loses tough match-ups (he's getting better at it, though), Jankowski was taken to task several times last year, especially when other teams' got their top players out against Janko... and we all know the Stajan/4th line tire fire. More or less Backlund was the only guy you were 100% comfortable with when he was out there.

If we slide Backs down to 3C, and still make him the heavy lifter (in terms of the nasty match-ups), having:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Neal
Tkachuk - Lindholm - Bennett
Frolik - Backlund - Ryan
X - Jankowski - Czarnik

Does that balance out the lines more? It does give us a righty centre every day, and the bottom two lines have two natural centremen each too.

If I'm Peters, I'd work off existing chemistry pairings before going all cray with the blender.

Gaudreau -Mony
Lindholm - Ryan
Backlund/Frolik or Backlund/Tkachuk
Bennett - Janko

I'd start with these to find a baseline first and I'd imagine that JG/Mony are the uncontested top line with the bottom 9 being rotated and used in a more equal usage as possible depending on who steps up. Then I'd play around with combinations afterwards, or dismantle pairing as needed. Otherwise, you risk the disadvantage of stumbling out of the gate and having to play catch up within a few weeks of the season starting.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Bennett - Lindy - Tkachuk

Would be a sexy line. I want to see it.

 

[The Gnome]

Bennett - Lindy - Tkachuk

Would be a sexy line. I want to see it.

Yup, that’s what I’m hoping for. Push the Frolik-backlund combo down and give Bennett a chance.

 

[JPeeper]

Like last year, one of our big problems, was that 3/4 of our centres had to be protected at any time. Monahan loses tough match-ups (he's getting better at it, though), Jankowski was taken to task several times last year, especially when other teams' got their top players out against Janko... and we all know the Stajan/4th line tire fire. More or less Backlund was the only guy you were 100% comfortable with when he was out there.

I disagree, Monahan is solid defensively and doesn't need protecting. The only reason his line would get worked some shifts is because Gaudreau doesn't really play defense and Ferland is atrocious defensively so Monahan does the defensive assignments of 3 guys. Backlund's line is a lot more efficient because he has Tkachuk and Frolik flanking, two guys who are solid defensively. 1 on 1 Monahan doesn't get beat too often, he'll lose his guy occasionally like everyone else, but if his line is getting worked it is almost never Mony's fault.

I agree with your opinion to overload the center position though. I think if Bennett-Lindholm-Tkachuk was used as the 2nd scoring line and Backs was used straight shut down, we'd be much better off because we could fire the 1st line out there and then counter right after with a second barrage of offensive skill with Bennett-Lindy-Chucky.

 

[crackdown44]

I don’t mind trying lindholm at 2C but I’d like very much to see tkachuk/Backlund stay there with lindholm on the right side. I think the upgrade on Frolik there makes them much more dangerous offensively and for what we’re paying Backlund I want to see him contribute at both ends of the ice.

Moreover I want to see Janko get more plying time at 3C than at 4C. Last year was only his first full time NHL season. I still think there’s a good chance he develops into something quite a bit better than what most expect. Putting a capable RW like Frolik or Ryan with janko/Bennett helps them both tremendously imo

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I agree that Monahan took some major steps forward defensively last season. Gully wasn’t all bad and he’s going to be a better player because of him, just like how Hartley was good for him and told him to go out and score and not be a 3C. Peters will now hopefully round out his game in the middle.

Also I don’t think people realize how good Lindholm already is. If he scored an extra 15 points the last 2 seasons, people would be talking about him that he’s not far off from Barkov. I think he’s gonna take that step here next season.

 

[Lunatik]

The way Monahan's defensive game gets shit on is clueless IMO. He was the only player on his line that played any defense consistently. Ferland was terrible defensively and Gaudreau for obvious reasons will take more chances that hurt his average defensive game. Playing with the linemates he did, really made Monahan's defensive game look worse than it is. I think this is why you try Lindholm on the top line, if gives Monahan that help he has never had on the defensive side of the puck.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

I agree that Monahan took some major steps forward defensively last season. Gully wasn’t all bad and he’s going to be a better player because of him, just like how Hartley was good for him and told him to go out and score and not be a 3C. Peters will now hopefully round out his game in the middle.

Also I don’t think people realize how good Lindholm already is. If he scored an extra 15 points the last 2 seasons, people would be talking about him that he’s not far off from Barkov. I think he’s gonna take that step here next season.

Lindholm will show why he's a top 5 player overall in the 2013 draft here.

Re-draft:
1. Jones
2. Barkov
3. MacKinnon (Barkov takes on super hard comp, is a possession and defensive monster and outscored MacKinnon previously, MacKinnon's one elite season doesn't change anything).
4. Monahan
5. Lindholm

Drouin sucks, Ristolainen is overrated, Horvat is mep, Domi is criminally overrated, Wennberg is good but not consistent enough, Nurse hasn't proven much, I think Nichushkin is self explanatory.

 

[Volica]

I disagree, Monahan is solid defensively and doesn't need protecting. The only reason his line would get worked some shifts is because Gaudreau doesn't really play defense and Ferland is atrocious defensively so Monahan does the defensive assignments of 3 guys. Backlund's line is a lot more efficient because he has Tkachuk and Frolik flanking, two guys who are solid defensively. 1 on 1 Monahan doesn't get beat too often, he'll lose his guy occasionally like everyone else, but if his line is getting worked it is almost never Mony's fault.

I agree with your opinion to overload the center position though. I think if Bennett-Lindholm-Tkachuk was used as the 2nd scoring line and Backs was used straight shut down, we'd be much better off because we could fire the 1st line out there and then counter right after with a second barrage of offensive skill with Bennett-Lindy-Chucky.

We can just agree to disagree.
Monahan gets the benefit of being a big Canadian kid, so it'll always be projected that he's a good defensive player; that and his comparisons to Toews in his draft year. He's not great on that end of the ice. At this stage of his career, he's a shooter. And that's awesome, because we need guys who can score; but he's a guy who needs protecting at this level. He's made big strides over the past season, and that's great because that's what we need from him. He gets beat often and easily by elite offensive players. Gaudreau is actually the better of the two players on both ends, but because of his size and skill, he's always perceived as the lesser of the two. Ferland is pretty much the same level as Monahan. That top line was three offensive players who are still pretty limited on both ends. If they score though, who cares?

Backlund is a good D centre, in general. Even when he played with guys like Colborne and the rest of the Jabrones he dragged around; he made his line the best defensive line on our team. If Monahan could sniff Backlund on both ends, the guy would be an elite 1C in our league.

But yeah. Stack down the middle.

That top line has to get a lot of attention. That third line gets the tough match-ups. Second and fourth line could go out and just feast on people.

 

[Fig]

Think about all the centres that became the 1C at Monahan's age. Many of them will struggle after a while here and there and will need someone to lessen the pressure from time to time. Hockey is a team game. To think that a single player will not need the rest of the team to prop them up is crazy. Gone are the days were a single player or two could drag a team kicking and screaming like Pronger or Iggy are long gone.

Monahan has been ridiculously consistent in that 1C role. Consider also that most of the names that come up of young 1C at Monahan's age will be top 3 picks and there will be serious highs and lows with said players. Monahan was a 6th OA pick and has been a robot of consistency point wise since he took the 1C mantle from Stajan a few seasons ago.

To think that any centre man of Monahan's age and ilk doesn't need sheltering is silly. A player needs a team.

Sure, he's not that amazing in the d zone, but with what he has been given so far and he fact he's made strides, some leniency is worth giving to him, no? Monahan can continue to improve.

 

[The Gnome]

Yup, you stack down the middle.

People forget how young Monahan is, and he isn’t horrible defensively, I’d say he’s average. I have no doubt he’ll improve on that with age, most players, especially centers, do just that.

Monahan
Lindholm
Backlund
Jankowski/Ryan

That’s excellent center depth with room to only improve. I’d run with that and fill in the lineup with whatever works best. Defense, depth down the middle, and a hot goalie wins cups.

 

[Volica]

Think about all the centres that became the 1C at Monahan's age. Many of them will struggle after a while here and there and will need someone to lessen the pressure from time to time. Hockey is a team game. To think that a single player will not need the rest of the team to prop them up is crazy. Gone are the days were a single player or two could drag a team kicking and screaming like Pronger or Iggy are long gone.

Monahan has been ridiculously consistent in that 1C role. Consider also that most of the names that come up of young 1C at Monahan's age will be top 3 picks and there will be serious highs and lows with said players. Monahan was a 6th OA pick and has been a robot of consistency point wise since he took the 1C mantle from Stajan a few seasons ago.

To think that any centre man of Monahan's age and ilk doesn't need sheltering is silly. A player needs a team.

Sure, he's not that amazing in the d zone, but with what he has been given so far and he fact he's made strides, some leniency is worth giving to him, no? Monahan can continue to improve.

I fully agree.
My point is that he still needs to be sheltered somewhat on this team. IF we had more than one centre that was capable of taking tough match-ups, we'd be a much better team.

 

[Lunatik]

@Volica
Monahan "needs to be protected", yet reality has him doing 85-90% of the defensive work on his line. Sure Monahan is no Backlund, but the way you underrate him is getting ridiculous. You routinely come off as shitting on his game, you make him sound like he's terrible defensively and shouldn't be a number one center. Both of which are pure fiction. The only guys that seem to underrate Monahan more than you are OKG and Whiskey.

 

[Volica]

@Volica
Monahan "needs to be protected", yet reality has him doing 85-90% of the defensive work on his line. Sure Monahan is no Backlund, but the way you underrate him is getting ridiculous. You routinely come off as ****ting on his game, you make him sound like he's terrible defensively and shouldn't be a number one center. Both of which are pure fiction. The only guys that seem to underrate Monahan more than you are OKG and Whiskey.

Which is bologna though. Doing 85-90% of the defensive work. You have any statistics or evidence to back it up or just a claim? Because he certainly doesn’t do the majority of the lines’ defensive work via eye test.

I don’t shit on his game. I’m just realistic to where he is at this point. He’s an elite shooter who finds space, which is what we need very badly on this team. He has decent vision but isn’t a great puck protector or creative at all; and hence doesn’t touch the puck. He more or less skates out there in the offensive zone to find Johnny. Hes a big guy who doesn’t use his body one bit. We used to cry on this board about Colborne not using that frame, yet he was better at puck protection over Mony.

Don’t get bent out of shape because I’m critical of your favourite player or something. He’s an awesome centre, the best we’ve had on this team since probably those peak Langkow years... but he’s not close to an elite 1C in the NHL as you and some others make him out to be.

I also fully admit that he’s improved a lot over the past couple years, and if he continues to improve; the guy will be where we really need him if we want to be an elite team in the league. He’s shown awesome linear progress, I thought last year he started to turn the corner on his overall game; minus the injuries.

 

[Lunatik]

Which is bologna though. Doing 85-90% of the defensive work. You have any statistics or evidence to back it up or just a claim? Because he certainly doesn’t do the majority of the lines’ defensive work via eye test.

Then you ain't watching the same team, you do know our guys have that flaming C on the front right? Because Gaudreau plays very little defense and when he does it's no more than a stick check to try and create offense, which is okay, because that is what his game is about and why he is a top 5 offensive winger. Ferland on the otherhand had no excuse, he played even less defense, he was never the first guy back despite his skating ability and he made fewer smart defensive plays than Gaudreau the rare time he decided to partake in that side of the game.

 

[Mobiandi]

I think it's pretty hyperbolic to say that Gaudreau plays no defense. Sure, he might float by our blueline more than the average player but he's intelligent with how he does it.

His defensive stick is better than Ferland's or Monahan's

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I know this, the first 40 or so games Monahan looked like a beast and was a different player. It was hands down his best stretch as a Flame. Then he faded, people became critical of him not being a presence out on the ice (myself included), then it came out he was hurt.

If he can return to that form before he was hurt, I’m really excited. And Peters is gonna hold guys accountable so think we’re gonna have a good season!

 

[The Gnome]

I think it's pretty hyperbolic to say that Gaudreau plays no defense. Sure, he might float by our blueline more than the average player but he's intelligent with how he does it.

His defensive stick is better than Ferland's or Monahan's

Gaudreau's stick in the neutral zone is pretty decent. He's good at stripping guys with the puck when they are rushing up ice. Other then that, he's pretty ineffective defensively, a big part of that is just his size. But with him and Monahan, I could care less when they put up the points they do. Plus, both will only get better overall as the go through their prime years.

 

[Volica]

Then you ain't watching the same team, you do know our guys have that flaming C on the front right? Because Gaudreau plays very little defense and when he does it's no more than a stick check to try and create offense, which is okay, because that is what his game is about and why he is a top 5 offensive winger. Ferland on the otherhand had no excuse, he played even less defense, he was never the first guy back despite his skating ability and he made fewer smart defensive plays than Gaudreau the rare time he decided to partake in that side of the game.

At times I don't think we do watch the same team. So, disagreeing with you is nothing new for me, or for a lot of people.

Ferland was the only puck hound that the first line had. While I admit that Ferland's not an amazing defensive player, you are selling him very, very short (unsurprisingly). Monahan and Ferland are pretty much at the same defensive level of player. You should re-watch some games from the top line last season. Check out who's digging pucks in the corner in the defensive end from Calgary; and who tended to lose his man in the slot more. Monahan isn't horrible defensively, he's just not good either; and that's fine because his line (driven by Johnny) scores more than they get scored on and can be the best line on the ice for either team on any given night. A lot of the great players in the league aren't defensive stalwarts; but they produce, so they don't have to worry about it.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

At times I don't think we do watch the same team. So, disagreeing with you is nothing new for me, or for a lot of people.

Ferland was the only puck hound that the first line had. While I admit that Ferland's not an amazing defensive player, you are selling him very, very short (unsurprisingly). Monahan and Ferland are pretty much at the same defensive level of player. You should re-watch some games from the top line last season. Check out who's digging pucks in the corner in the defensive end from Calgary; and who tended to lose his man in the slot more. Monahan isn't horrible defensively, he's just not good either; and that's fine because his line (driven by Johnny) scores more than they get scored on and can be the best line on the ice for either team on any given night. A lot of the great players in the league aren't defensive stalwarts; but they produce, so they don't have to worry about it.

Probably the most accurate post on HFBoards.

 

[The Gnome]

At times I don't think we do watch the same team. So, disagreeing with you is nothing new for me, or for a lot of people.

Ferland was the only puck hound that the first line had. While I admit that Ferland's not an amazing defensive player, you are selling him very, very short (unsurprisingly). Monahan and Ferland are pretty much at the same defensive level of player. You should re-watch some games from the top line last season. Check out who's digging pucks in the corner in the defensive end from Calgary; and who tended to lose his man in the slot more. Monahan isn't horrible defensively, he's just not good either; and that's fine because his line (driven by Johnny) scores more than they get scored on and can be the best line on the ice for either team on any given night. A lot of the great players in the league aren't defensive stalwarts; but they produce, so they don't have to worry about it.

This is a pretty fair view of our top line from last year. Again, I've stated Monahan is average defensively. I do think he'll only get better at playing without the puck as he ages, most forwards round that part of the game out over time. Like you said, at this point he's an elite sniper with a solid knack for getting open. Nothing wrong with what he is now, but I think he keeps taking steps to being a top end well rounded player. I also don't ever think he'll be more aggressive or play with an edge, that's just not his game.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I'm very pro to the idea of stacking down the middle. However, I don't like the idea of playing so many guys on their off wing.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Neal
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik/Ryan
Bennett - Lindholm - Ryan/Frolik
Mangiapane - Jankowski - Czarnik/Brouwer

This makes the 2nd and 3rd lines pretty interchangeable in terms of ice time and deployment. Frolik or Ryan in the top 6 isn't sexy, but it is practical and improves our depth IMO.