2018-19 Colorado Eagles (AHL) and Utah Grizzlies (ECHL)

[Bauhaus]

Same system as Avs then

What games are you watching? We are one of the better teams in the league at keeping shot counts down, especially 5v5.

 

[Pokecheque]

I believe he had an assist.

The Eagles' Twitter account didn't spare the rod.



EDIT: Oops...I made fun of Arizona's jerseys they wore last night not knowing they were for autism awareness. I'm just gonna go stick my head in this here blender...

 

[Avsrule2022]

What games are you watching? We are one of the better teams in the league at keeping shot counts down, especially 5v5.

Avs give up 32 shots per game, 12th worst in the league. Eagles give up 33 shots per game, 2nd worst in the league.

The Eagles run all the same systems as the Avs.

 

[Bauhaus]

Avs give up 32 shots per game, 12th worst in the league. Eagles give up 33 shots per game, 2nd worst in the league.

The Eagles run all the same systems as the Avs.

Good to know. I would like to add a few things.

We've had 2,497 shots against this season which makes us 18th in the league.

Of those, only 1,877 were 5v5 (which is top 8 in the league). Therefore, 620 of the remaining shots against were on man advantage situations.

We are the worst team in taking too many penalties. We are an extremely undisciplined team. When we are playing 5v5 hockey, and stay out of the box, we are one of the more defensively responsible teams. (oh the irony)

That said, I don't know much about the Eagles stats. Are most of their shots coming on man disadvantages as well? (Truly curious). I have a feeling the give up a lot of shots in all situations which isn't the same as our situation, but I could certainly be wrong.

And I do apologize for my ignorance, I truly don't know where to find stats for AHL teams. I am curious to look at both to see how closely they correlate.

 

[Avsrule2022]

Good to know. I would like to add a few things.

We've had 2,497 shots against this season which makes us 18th in the league.

Of those, only 1,877 were 5v5 (which is top 8 in the league). Therefore, 620 of the remaining shots against were on man advantage situations.

We are the worst team in taking too many penalties. We are an extremely undisciplined team. When we are playing 5v5 hockey, and stay out of the box, we are one of the more defensively responsible teams. (oh the irony)

That said, I don't know much about the Eagles stats. Are most of their shots coming on man disadvantages as well? (Truly curious). I have a feeling the give up a lot of shots in all situations which isn't the same as our situation, but I could certainly be wrong.

And I do apologize for my ignorance, I truly don't know where to find stats for AHL teams. I am curious to look at both to see how closely they correlate.

Nothing to apologize for.

The Eagles are just as bad, if not worse on taking dumb penalties, and are a pretty decent defensive 5v5 team as well. I don't know the numbers on even strength shots against, but since they lead the league in PIM's per game I would assume the Eagles give up a lot of shots on the PK.

The Eagles real problems defensively (and offense and special teams even more so) is that they run the Avs systems but don't have the right players to play those systems for the most part.

Here is where I got the AHL stats from if you ever want to check them out:

AHL 2019-03-31

 

[Bauhaus]

Nothing to apologize for.

The Eagles are just as bad, if not worse on taking dumb penalties, and are a pretty decent defensive 5v5 team as well. I don't know the numbers on even strength shots against, but since they lead the league in PIM's per game I would assume the Eagles give up a lot of shots on the PK.

The Eagles real problems defensively (and offense and special teams even more so) is that they run the Avs systems but don't have the right players to play those systems for the most part.

Here is where I got the AHL stats from if you ever want to check them out:

AHL 2019-03-31

Wow, like you said, they literally run the same systems, PIM's and all. I stand corrected.

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

How would you describe that system and the type of players that work well with it, for a non-expert like me to understand? Please.

 

[Avsrule2022]

How would you describe that system and the type of players that work well with it, for a non-expert like me to understand? Please.

I'm a non-expert also, so I couldn't really tell you about the systems except for the eye test. Watching both the Avs and Eagles, the systems look the same especially on offense and the power play.
As far as type of players go, the Eagles just don't have the talent on offense to run the Avs (or any other) system for the most part.

 

[Pokecheque]

One argument I read online is that both the Eagles and Avalanche have fast rosters, but run slow systems.

I haven't seen the Eagles play this year, but if it's anything like the Avs' system then they do a lot of high/low work, generate their offense via shots from the point and work from there. Also a LOT of work along the boards at both ends of the ice. They really just don't like going up the middle either when breaking it out of the defensive zone or offense in the attacking zone. I still think incorporating some open-ice cycling and a more creative breakout system is necessary, and we will see as more talent is added, but you can tell the opposition kinda knows what's up. The opposing point men usually pin themselves to the boards to stop any chip-outs/outlet passes because they know that's where they're coming from.

Also, once again this team has devolved into a completely passive, collapsing shot-blocking scheme in the d-zone. No surprise that a lot of blown leads have happened because of guys getting to shoot at will from the point and it either results in an easy put-away rebound or it deflects off someone and in. They USED to at least do a somewhat better job of boxing out the opposition, now it's the same crap we saw with the last couple guys.

 

[S E P H]

One argument I read online is that both the Eagles and Avalanche have fast rosters, but run slow systems.

I haven't seen the Eagles play this year, but if it's anything like the Avs' system then they do a lot of high/low work, generate their offense via shots from the point and work from there.

A lot of forechequing skills are required for both systems; the NHL and AHL. I haven't chequed the Avs, but both teams take an absurd amount of penalties in the offencive zone because of it (what Hench was alluding to in the past). Eagles are the second most penalized team in the AHL and when getting rid of one crazy sample-sized in Geertsen, they're still in the top 5-7.

What I noticed the Eagles do much better than the Avs, is they're able to find one-timer opportunities more in 5v5 play than relying on Mikkos, Barrios y MacKinnonos one-timers with the man advantage. Eagles ground and pound and then cycle throughout the offencive zone constantly looking for one-timers in the slot. The game I went to, they got off a couple of prime scoring chance one-timers which were stopped by good saves from Berdin. That and there really isn't a very good shooter either on the Eagles or in our system besides perhaps Morrison. Makar's shot is currently too inconsistent at the moment and Greer wasn't an amazing goalscorer at any level either.

 

[Foppa Frossa]

A wild Timmins appears!

 

[Cousin Eddie]

A wild Timmins appears!

So Dater gives like 3 separate updates with specific dates of when Timmins is supposed to return but is wrong every time. Then he says Timmins is shut down for the year and a week later he’s practicing.

Great work, Adrian.
A++

 

[Cousin Eddie]

FTR, Timmins is moving a lot better than I would have expected in that very limited clip.

 

[RockLobster]

So Dater gives like 3 separate updates with specific dates of when Timmins is supposed to return but is wrong every time. Then he says Timmins is shut down for the year and a week later he’s practicing.

Great work, Adrian.
A++

Why would we assume "shut down" meant not even practicing? Especially when he's been practicing fine. I thought it was obvious that "shut down" meant not getting any games in this year.


As far as the "3 separate updates" thing...I personally don't think Dater cares enough about prospects to just make up dates--he's shown in the past that he has little regard for them. To me, it makes more sense that those were dates someone in the organization told him they "had hopes" for him to have made more progress towards a return to game-action.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Why would we assume "shut down" meant not even practicing? Especially when he's been practicing fine. I thought it was obvious that "shut down" meant not getting any games in this year.


As far as the "3 separate updates" thing...I personally don't think Dater cares enough about prospects to just make up dates--he's shown in the past that he has little regard for them. To me, it makes more sense that those were dates someone in the organization told him they "had hopes" for him to have made more progress towards a return to game-action.

I think assuming “shut down for the season” means shutting him down completely would make more sense than assuming no games but will continue to practice.

Dater tweeted out multiple times that he was being shut down for the season and it’s supposed to be my fault that I never figured out from that that Timmins will continue to practice but won’t play games? Give me a break.

As for the date updates. You can tell me Dater don’t care about prospects or whatever all you want. I’m just saying he was incorrect multiple times on the subject.

You can defend him all you want but I said nothing incorrect in my post. Dater tweeted out misleading information about him being shut down and gave incorrect dates on multiple occasions. I don’t care where the info came from in the first place. I’m just pointing out his incompetence. If he’s learning things from poor sources that’s also on him and he should just shut his mouth instead of tweeting out things that “might” be right.

 

[RockLobster]

I think assuming “shut down for the season” means shutting him down completely would make more sense than assuming no games but will continue to practice.

Dater tweeted out multiple times that he was being shut down for the season and it’s supposed to be my fault that I never figured out from that that Timmins will continue to practice but won’t play games? Give me a break.

As for the date updates. You can tell me Dater don’t care about prospects or whatever all you want. I’m just saying he was incorrect multiple times on the subject.

I'm asking why that would make more sense when he had been, for quite some time, practicing with seemingly no issues? The ultimate goal was him getting games in at the end of the season. He traveled with the Eagles, had been practicing with the Avs, but I read the decision to "shut down" as a final call as to whether he'd play any games this year, not that he'd just stop practicing (especially when there hadn't been any reports of him having difficulty practicing).

Again, that was just my assumption/interpretation of it. I'm not trying to pick at anything, was trying to understand the POV you were coming from.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I'm asking why that would make more sense when he had been, for quite some time, practicing with seemingly no issues? The ultimate goal was him getting games in at the end of the season. He traveled with the Eagles, had been practicing with the Avs, but I read the decision to "shut down" as a final call as to whether he'd play any games this year, not that he'd just stop practicing (especially when there hadn't been any reports of him having difficulty practicing).

I’m not going to argue with you on that all day. I think it’s much more logical to assume that the quote “shutting him down for the season” means exactly that rather than thinking he will practice but won’t play organized games.

If when you read that quote you thought it meant only partially shut down, our brains obviously just comprehend things differently.

If somebody told me the local shopping mall was being shut down until June I would believe the mall will be closed until June. I wouldn’t assume that I could still go to stores on the lower level and grab a bite to eat in the food court.

I read the quote like it was and assumed it meant exactly that.

 

[RockLobster]

As for the date updates. You can tell me Dater don’t care about prospects or whatever all you want. I’m just saying he was incorrect multiple times on the subject.

You can defend him all you want but I said nothing incorrect in my post. Dater tweeted out misleading information about him being shut down and gave incorrect dates on multiple occasions. I don’t care where the info came from in the first place. I’m just pointing out his incompetence. If he’s learning things from poor sources that’s also on him and he should just shut his mouth instead of tweeting out things that “might” be right.

Okay, here's one of the "misleading" tweets:



I don't know how that's really considered "misleading" in the context of dealing with an injured player. The Avs (and probaby Conor himself) had hopes that his lingering symptoms would have been cleared up by January of this year for him to play. So he reported something he was told...which is something I would expect any sports journalist to do.

Here's another one:



I can understand being a bit more prickly on this one, but again--its Dater relaying info that the Avs gave him. Are you saying that a sports journalist shouldn't relay how a team is feeling with regards to an injured player returning (especially one that a large section of the fan base is curious about)?

On top of that--it's a concussion, which has no exact way of healing. So all of these were "if symptoms clear up" timelines.

 

[Pokecheque]

Agreed with RL, there's nothing misleading there. If he said flat-out that he WOULD play, then yeah, that's misleading.

How much longer does Barbs have on his conditioning stint before he has to be called back up?

 

[RockLobster]

FTR--not saying don't criticize AD (or even BSN, despite my belief that they're still the best day-to-day beat coverage of the Avs currently...since Clark & The Athletic seem to be more into feature pieces), he definitely has warts. As readers we shouldn't *have* to attempt to filter out his opinion with reporting. That's a knock. It was this particular instance that I disagreed w/ CE on, respectfully because I was desiring to understand his POV.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

It’s just infuriating that I’m expected to guess at things. When somebody says a guy is shut down for the year I think it’s ridiculous to expect people to believe that he doesn’t actually mean shut down for the year. If he means he simply won’t play games, f***ing say that.

Then when I realize I was misinformed other times on this exact situation I speak up.

It hurts my head how often I read information that is simply worded in a poor way or flat out wrong from that clown. Then when you say things like “why would you assume shut down means not practicing” I put my guard up because if you simply re-read that quote before you posted it you would know exactly why I assumed that. It’s much more logical to assume being “shut down for the year” means not playing hockey at all than to assume he practices but don’t play games.

 

[RockLobster]

Then when you say things like “why would you assume shut down means not practicing” I put my guard up because if you simply re-read that quote before you posted it you would know exactly why I assumed that. It’s much more logical to assume being “shut down for the year” means not playing hockey at all than to assume he practices but don’t play games.

If Timmins had either not been practicing the way he has been or had numerous starts-then-stops w/r/t practicing, then I would agree with you.

Given that once he started practicing I don't think he ever really stopped (he just hadn't progressed enough), that's where I disagree.

Alas, we both have said what we feel.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

If Timmins had either not been practicing the way he has been or had numerous starts-then-stops w/r/t practicing, then I would agree with you.

Given that once he started practicing I don't think he ever really stopped (he just hadn't progressed enough), that's where I disagree.

Alas, we both have said what we feel.

There were multiple stints this year where Timmins stopped practicing for days at a time and at least once he was shut down for a couple of weeks.

 

[henchman21]

Why is there even a debate on this? Dater is notorious for his lack of journalistic skills.

I think the mistake in all of this stems from the Avs providing hope continuously to fans. There were rumors floating when Timmins went back home late last year that he was going to be completely shutdown then as it was going poorly. Timmins didn't want to give up and the Avs let him come back to practice with the team. Then continued to evaluate while providing slivers of hope. IMO they were letting him feel like he is a part of the team and that he wasn't alone through this more than anything else.

 

[Avsrule2022]

Agreed with RL, there's nothing misleading there. If he said flat-out that he WOULD play, then yeah, that's misleading.

How much longer does Barbs have on his conditioning stint before he has to be called back up?

Barbs was sent back to the Avs on Sunday. He only had 1 game left on his rehab stint.