2018-19 Colorado Eagles (AHL) and Utah Grizzlies (ECHL)

[Avsrule2022]

With you on this one. We should be patient with some of these guys and overdevelop them rather than putting them into situations like Jost where expectations can crush their confidence.

Patience is fine, but a game or 2 in the NHL shouldn't crush anyone's confidence. The Avs had multiple opportunities to get guys like Meloche, Kaut and Francouz a game or 2 in the show to let them see how it works and get their feet wet. That's one of the main reasons they moved the AHL team 50 miles up the road. Avs dropped the ball big time on this.

 

[henchman21]

Patience is fine, but a game or 2 in the NHL shouldn't crush anyone's confidence. The Avs had multiple opportunities to get guys like Meloche, Kaut and Francouz a game or 2 in the show to let them see how it works and get their feet wet. That's one of the main reasons they moved the AHL team 50 miles up the road. Avs dropped the ball big time on this.

Kaut is certainly one the Avs shouldn't be giving a chance to at all this season... save his contract. Meloche is fine staying this whole season and continuing to work on his game. There isn't a good role available for him in the NHL and he needs to be playing. With Graves you have a mostly finished product, so him sitting isn't really a big deal. When you're talking a game or two, yeah it doesn't really hurt, but it doesn't really help either. Players need to go through an adjustment process to get used to the NHL and a game or two isn't going to allow that to happen. I do think the Avs dropped the ball on Frank.

 

[avsfan09]

Patience is fine, but a game or 2 in the NHL shouldn't crush anyone's confidence. The Avs had multiple opportunities to get guys like Meloche, Kaut and Francouz a game or 2 in the show to let them see how it works and get their feet wet. That's one of the main reasons they moved the AHL team 50 miles up the road. Avs dropped the ball big time on this.

Francouz definitely. Kaut deserves stability and probably Meloche Meloche aswell. The Avs have a ton of depth defenders and forwards. Meloche and Kaut will have next training camp to make big impressions.

 

[Avsrule2022]

Kaut's contract slides so he could have played 9 games this season without burning a year on his contract.
Avs called up Lindholm this year and he's garbage. No reason Mel couldn't have been rewarded for his production in the A rather than a guy who won't even be here next year.
I just think a couple of games in the NHL for those guys would help them more than hurt them. But it's too late for that now.

 

[Barklez]

People hoping Kaut wows his way onto the team in training camp should be tempering expectations. For the role he should be playing when he makes it up, I can't remember the last time a good training camp earned a player a top6, or even top9, roster spot. There's a few you could argue but they were all PTOs IIRC.

 

[Barklez]

Kaut's contract slides so he could have played 9 games this season without burning a year on his contract.
Avs called up Lindholm this year and he's garbage. No reason Mel couldn't have been rewarded for his production in the A rather than a guy who won't even be here next year.
I just think a couple of games in the NHL for those guys would help them more than hurt them. But it's too late for that now.

Lindholm played 2 games and then ate nachos upstairs though right? It seems pretty clear that Bednar thinks every second of icetime is a reward to be cherished but Meloche sitting on his thumb getting frostnip waiting for his 7 minutes a night doesn't really help him at all IMO. Frankly, if I'm Meloche, I'd rather my first NHL games be when the coach actually thinks I'm ready and is willing to give me real minutes. Lindholm was called up to sit on the bench, that's why they called him up and not someone else.

I don't disagree that he could've been given more of a shot with the Avs at times this year but we also know he wouldn't have got it with Bednar so I'm not too stressed about him marinating in Loveland instead.

 

[AvsCOL]

Kaut's contract slides so he could have played 9 games this season without burning a year on his contract.
Avs called up Lindholm this year and he's garbage. No reason Mel couldn't have been rewarded for his production in the A rather than a guy who won't even be here next year.
I just think a couple of games in the NHL for those guys would help them more than hurt them. But it's too late for that now.

They're clearly not interested in rewarding good play. Greer, Aggz, Meloche and Francouz should all have been given legit shots to play in the NHL, but were turned away.

 

[Pokecheque]

Apparently the Eagles have had enough Van Wormer for now.

 

[henchman21]

Kaut's contract slides so he could have played 9 games this season without burning a year on his contract.
Avs called up Lindholm this year and he's garbage. No reason Mel couldn't have been rewarded for his production in the A rather than a guy who won't even be here next year.
I just think a couple of games in the NHL for those guys would help them more than hurt them. But it's too late for that now.

Yeah it is true that it would slide, but what purpose would it serve? He is in his +1 season, for all but 3 or 4 players every year, they shouldn't be in the NHL. It would be a different situation if he was tearing up the AHL ala Mikko (who got screwed by the 9 game rule, but the Avs did call him up late), but he isn't. Kaut isn't ready, and the Avs need to learn how to not rush prospects.

It is really kind of an odd thing here... the vast majority of Avs' fans believe that Jost was rushed and shouldn't have been in the NHL that soon, yet they want to rush all the other prospects.

 

[Pokecheque]

It wouldn't have been a terrible idea to have given him a taste of the NHL, I don't think you're necessarily rushing him if you call him up for a couple games here and there in the event of injury.

 

[henchman21]

It wouldn't have been a terrible idea to have given him a taste of the NHL, I don't think you're necessarily rushing him if you call him up for a couple games here and there in the event of injury.

What purpose does that really serve for a player still developing? A few things can happen... they play great and still have to be told they are being sent down, possibly building some frustration with the organization. They can play poorly and have their confidence killed. They could be just a complete non-factor in any area souring the whole idea to the coaching staff who may hold on to that for a while (many staffs do this). With a player like Lindholm, who cares if any of that happens? He can play spot duty and has shown that, but he isn't in the long-term plans. A yo-yo isn't going to hurt. With a kid like Meloche, he has to work with this staff and organization for a while (or at least we'd hope) you want it to be as positive as possible and his development to be as smooth as possible.

 

[Pokecheque]

What purpose does that really serve for a player still developing? A few things can happen... they play great and still have to be told they are being sent down, possibly building some frustration with the organization. They can play poorly and have their confidence killed. They could be just a complete non-factor in any area souring the whole idea to the coaching staff who may hold on to that for a while (many staffs do this). With a player like Lindholm, who cares if any of that happens? He can play spot duty and has shown that, but he isn't in the long-term plans. A yo-yo isn't going to hurt. With a kid like Meloche, he has to work with this staff and organization for a while (or at least we'd hope) you want it to be as positive as possible and his development to be as smooth as possible.

Let's just say I don't trust this organization's ability to know when a player is ready or not, I'd like the player himself to have more say. I think any "frustration" would be minimal at best. Kaut knows how young he is.

 

[avsfan09]

Let's just say I don't trust this organization's ability to know when a player is ready or not, I'd like the player himself to have more say. I think any "frustration" would be minimal at best. Kaut knows how young he is.

Do you mean more say as in he can ask to be moved up or more say as in their play doing the talking?

 

[henchman21]

Let's just say I don't trust this organization's ability to know when a player is ready or not, I'd like the player himself to have more say. I think any "frustration" would be minimal at best. Kaut knows how young he is.

Yeah I don't either, but I think the Avs' errors tend to be more on the side of rushing instead of waiting. The frustration might be minimal at first, but can build especially if they play well. There have been a number of +1 and +2 players over the years that have forced organization hand's with threats of playing elsewhere. We have one in our lineup night in and night out, it isn't unusual anymore.

 

[Pokecheque]

Do you mean more say as in he can ask to be moved up or more say as in their play doing the talking?

The latter. Again, either way, I don't think giving Kaut a couple games here and there in lieu of Bourque getting hooking penalties or Colin Wilson falling flat on his face would really hurt the team or the player's development all that much.

 

[avsfan09]

The latter. Again, either way, I don't think giving Kaut a couple games here and there in lieu of Bourque getting hooking penalties or Colin Wilson falling flat on his face would really hurt the team or the player's development all that much.

Probably not. But he needs to work on his offensive game imo. If he starts producing well in the A, than I'd look to get his feet wet in the NHL.

 

[Pokecheque]

BTW, if you guys follow what TMV has told us, Kaut is indeed frustrated, but it has nothing to do with a callup or lack thereof. The Eagles, right now, are not focused on developing players.

 

[avsfan09]

BTW, if you guys follow what TMV has told us, Kaut is indeed frustrated, but it has nothing to do with a callup or lack thereof. The Eagles, right now, are not focused on developing players.

Do you have a link or quote to what he said? Not saying it's not true but Kaut has to take a little onus on himself aswell to develop.

 

[henchman21]

BTW, if you guys follow what TMV has told us, Kaut is indeed frustrated, but it has nothing to do with a callup or lack thereof. The Eagles, right now, are not focused on developing players.

To be fair to the organization here, this is a frequent difference between the European development model and the NA development model. NA organizations, nearly all of them, are more hands off and expect players to devote more of their own individual time towards individual development. Team development is much more focus, especially as you speak on roles. Whereas European development does tend to have more individual attention placed over a longer amount of time. Many of the players are in development systems of the leagues for 4-5+ years before and get a lot of individual attention as they are developing. Kaut himself had 4 season from his u16 team to playing pro in the same basic organization.

 

[cgf]

BTW, if you guys follow what TMV has told us, Kaut is indeed frustrated, but it has nothing to do with a callup or lack thereof. The Eagles, right now, are not focused on developing players.

Right now?

 

[cgf]

To be fair to the organization here, this is a frequent difference between the European development model and the NA development model. NA organizations, nearly all of them, are more hands off and expect players to devote more of their own individual time towards individual development. Team development is much more focus, especially as you speak on roles. Whereas European development does tend to have more individual attention placed over a longer amount of time. Many of the players are in development systems of the leagues for 4-5+ years before and get a lot of individual attention as they are developing. Kaut himself had 4 season from his u16 team to playing pro in the same basic organization.

D'you think that difference is a function of tradition/culture or finances?

 

[henchman21]

D'you think that difference is a function of tradition/culture or finances?

Probably a bit of both

 

[Pokecheque]

Do you have a link or quote to what he said? Not saying it's not true but Kaut has to take a little onus on himself aswell to develop.

TMV alluded to something Kaut said about how he feels like he has to develop himself. I don't think anyone said he shouldn't share responsibility to develop his own game, but he shouldn't have to do it all himself.

 

[Barklez]

D'you think that difference is a function of tradition/culture or finances?

It sounds to me like it's the difference in club structure from Europe to NA and is likely down to the soccer club-structures having such time-depth in Europe.

I can't really think of any NA sports where a youth player would realistically spend more than 2 years in any one "organization" that is actively looking to nurture their individual talent/skillset over any other players'. Even if you're passing through the ranks of a local minor/major hockey association unless a kid is in a specific developmental program (which they've likely sought out themselves) each team will feel and operate much more autonomously than the different age-group/levels of a European club. Less investment in long-term development I guess would be how I'm looking at it.

Most kids will bounce around between several different teams/centres unless they're from one of the big urban centres but even then they may still play in 2-3 different "clubs" before junior. If a kid is from a more rural background they could play for 3-4 different "clubs" before landing at a junior team that is able to take a more longterm approach with them.

In Europe it seems players are more likely to stick with a local club, or move to a bigger club and stay there through more of their developmental years. Interestingly in soccer it seems more and more youth players are taking matters into their own hands and moving clubs more frequently during youth years.

Am I making sense here? Does anyone feel like I'm way off the mark?

 

[AllAboutAvs]

TMV alluded to something Kaut said about how he feels like he has to develop himself. I don't think anyone said he shouldn't share responsibility to develop his own game, but he shouldn't have to do it all himself.

IIRC it wasn't so much as he had to develop himself but more about being cuthroat between players. As everybody tries to get a shot to the NHL they tend to not work together in improving each other. At least that's what I took out of it. I might be wrong though but I think that's what he meant. Now you might argue that the it's a development problem from the staff as they are not succeeding in changing the players' mentality and you might just be right.