Speculation: 2017 off-season talk thread
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Johansen2Foligno
CBJ Realest
- Jan 2, 2015
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CBJSlash
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It'll be a very interesting offseason. Perhaps the most interesting in franchise history, even if nothing happens. We have to have a great start next season.
Our contending window is opening. We will never again be able to stuff as much talent on our roster as we can in the next 2-3 years before our young players get full value on their contracts. What will we do in the meantime?
Toews and Kane were on kid deals for their first cup. So were Getzlaf and Perry (Selanne, Neidermeyer, Pronger). Datsyuk and Zetterberg eons ago.
The minute Werenski gets his 7 million contract, is the minute we stop being able to have 7 million dollars of talent on the team with Werenski.
Tricky. Accelerate too fast and jump the gun on a team not ready. Wait too long and miss opportunities to contend.
Contract-wise, we look okay and should be able to bridge most of our young players to the Foligno(33), Dubinsky(34), Savard (30, but if he skating takes even a tiny a hit, he's a liability) expiration year.
Our contending window is opening. We will never again be able to stuff as much talent on our roster as we can in the next 2-3 years before our young players get full value on their contracts. What will we do in the meantime?
Toews and Kane were on kid deals for their first cup. So were Getzlaf and Perry (Selanne, Neidermeyer, Pronger). Datsyuk and Zetterberg eons ago.
The minute Werenski gets his 7 million contract, is the minute we stop being able to have 7 million dollars of talent on the team with Werenski.
Tricky. Accelerate too fast and jump the gun on a team not ready. Wait too long and miss opportunities to contend.
Contract-wise, we look okay and should be able to bridge most of our young players to the Foligno(33), Dubinsky(34), Savard (30, but if he skating takes even a tiny a hit, he's a liability) expiration year.
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Cyclones Rock
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- Jun 12, 2008
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Often times one can say, "If it could have gone wrong, it did." This season, the regular season CBJ were a case of "If it could go right, it did." I think that the team hit a high water mark in the standings (4th overall) which won't even come close to being matched next season-even if they play well. This line up is hardly one which merits no action over the summer.
It was a great regular season. That can never be taken away from the players, management or the fans. But, I think it needs to be viewed as a maximum performance from this group and not as a harbinger of great things to come. This is not an exceptional group. It has some good pieces and some up and coming youngsters, but it also has a lot of declining and questionable pieces.
I don't think there is a Bobrovsky decision to be made. The Jackets haven't anybody who is even a credible back up in the organization (Korpisalo was last season but not this season) and I'd think you'd just have hope that whatever is the issue during the playoffs can be resolved. He's 28 and he's not garbage can material. He's got two years to go on his deal and I'm pretty sure the soundest course of action is to give him another shot.
Big decision is on Hartnell. If he wasn't being slowed by a nagging injury, it seems that his expiration date has been reached. A buyout would be a $1.6 million cap hit over the next 4 years. Perhaps a trade with 25-33% retention could be made.
I think the other major decision is on Dubinsky. He's definitely plateaued, so it's the rate of decline that is the question. I think it's steep enough to warrant unloading him. Also, I'm not an insider, so I'm just speculating, but I'd imagine that his leadership style rubs a lot of people wrong. He's been part of the leadership group which has yielded 3 playoff wins in 5 years. It's probably time for at least one subtraction from the veteran core for that reason alone.
PLD will no doubt be a CBJ next season, so there's going to be a center opening needed to be made anyway.
Bridge Wennberg and Anderson and, if possible, bring Gagner back on the cheap-up to $900,000 of a player's contract can be buried in the AHL so that mitigates Gagner's risk. Let Korpikoski go. Probably release Quincey as well.
If Murray can bring a reasonable asset or provide incentive to make a Hartnell or Dubinsky deal, I'd think parting with him would be worthwhile.
It was a great regular season. That can never be taken away from the players, management or the fans. But, I think it needs to be viewed as a maximum performance from this group and not as a harbinger of great things to come. This is not an exceptional group. It has some good pieces and some up and coming youngsters, but it also has a lot of declining and questionable pieces.
I don't think there is a Bobrovsky decision to be made. The Jackets haven't anybody who is even a credible back up in the organization (Korpisalo was last season but not this season) and I'd think you'd just have hope that whatever is the issue during the playoffs can be resolved. He's 28 and he's not garbage can material. He's got two years to go on his deal and I'm pretty sure the soundest course of action is to give him another shot.
Big decision is on Hartnell. If he wasn't being slowed by a nagging injury, it seems that his expiration date has been reached. A buyout would be a $1.6 million cap hit over the next 4 years. Perhaps a trade with 25-33% retention could be made.
I think the other major decision is on Dubinsky. He's definitely plateaued, so it's the rate of decline that is the question. I think it's steep enough to warrant unloading him. Also, I'm not an insider, so I'm just speculating, but I'd imagine that his leadership style rubs a lot of people wrong. He's been part of the leadership group which has yielded 3 playoff wins in 5 years. It's probably time for at least one subtraction from the veteran core for that reason alone.
PLD will no doubt be a CBJ next season, so there's going to be a center opening needed to be made anyway.
Bridge Wennberg and Anderson and, if possible, bring Gagner back on the cheap-up to $900,000 of a player's contract can be buried in the AHL so that mitigates Gagner's risk. Let Korpikoski go. Probably release Quincey as well.
If Murray can bring a reasonable asset or provide incentive to make a Hartnell or Dubinsky deal, I'd think parting with him would be worthwhile.
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cslebn
80 forever
- Feb 15, 2012
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Call me crazy but the player I keep thinking about adding isn't a MacKinnon or Duchene. I'm thinking about John Tavares.
That's your first line center. Yes he has 1 year left and yes he's already 26 (ancient right?
). He's going to make bank on his next contract and the Isles look like they are about where we were back around the Nash trade.
I almost wonder if we can't build something like the Nash trade for JT after the expansion and before the draft.
JT for Dubi, Murray, CBJ 2017 1st as the core of the deal.
With something like that, I suspect we need to add a bit but we would also need to work out the cap since this would leave the NYI with no space. If there were a way to swing it without Murray and add prospects, I think I would do it (including PLD). I think JT would make that much difference. Yes it would give us a finance nightmare coming up to re-sign him but depending on what happens with Hartnell and the Expansion then we could be in better shape.
That's your first line center. Yes he has 1 year left and yes he's already 26 (ancient right?
). He's going to make bank on his next contract and the Isles look like they are about where we were back around the Nash trade.I almost wonder if we can't build something like the Nash trade for JT after the expansion and before the draft.
JT for Dubi, Murray, CBJ 2017 1st as the core of the deal.
With something like that, I suspect we need to add a bit but we would also need to work out the cap since this would leave the NYI with no space. If there were a way to swing it without Murray and add prospects, I think I would do it (including PLD). I think JT would make that much difference. Yes it would give us a finance nightmare coming up to re-sign him but depending on what happens with Hartnell and the Expansion then we could be in better shape.
Cyclones Rock
Registered User
- Jun 12, 2008
- 10,597
- 6,523
Call me crazy but the player I keep thinking about adding isn't a MacKinnon or Duchene. I'm thinking about John Tavares.
That's your first line center. Yes he has 1 year left and yes he's already 26 (ancient right?
I almost wonder if we can't build something like the Nash trade for JT after the expansion and before the draft.
JT for Dubi, Murray, CBJ 2017 1st as the core of the deal.
With something like that, I suspect we need to add a bit but we would also need to work out the cap since this would leave the NYI with no space. If there were a way to swing it without Murray and add prospects, I think I would do it (including PLD). I think JT would make that much difference. Yes it would give us a finance nightmare coming up to re-sign him but depending on what happens with Hartnell and the Expansion then we could be in better shape.
I'd love having him in Columbus. I'd also love to hear the laughter of Garth Snow when this offer was presented to him.
cslebn
80 forever
- Feb 15, 2012
- 2,719
- 1,286
He did pitch every pick he had for Murray.... maybe we could get lucky.
Really though, fans always call this type of deal a pipe dream but trades like the Nash one really are more common. Everyone with a top flight forward is going to look for one of our D men to come back but really that'd be like Jones + Dubi for JT + Leddy then to make it remotely fair. And I doubt either side wants to touch that.
Call me crazy but the player I keep thinking about adding isn't a MacKinnon or Duchene. I'm thinking about John Tavares.
That's your first line center. Yes he has 1 year left and yes he's already 26 (ancient right?
I almost wonder if we can't build something like the Nash trade for JT after the expansion and before the draft.
JT for Dubi, Murray, CBJ 2017 1st as the core of the deal.
With something like that, I suspect we need to add a bit but we would also need to work out the cap since this would leave the NYI with no space. If there were a way to swing it without Murray and add prospects, I think I would do it (including PLD). I think JT would make that much difference. Yes it would give us a finance nightmare coming up to re-sign him but depending on what happens with Hartnell and the Expansion then we could be in better shape.
The Islanders won't have any interest in Dubinsky. They might not even have any interest in Murray, either as they have a relatively set blue-line. If they're going to trade JT within the division, I'm sure they'll be asking for Dubois+Jenner++++.
This idea was brought up in the playoff series thread, but what are people's thoughts on a Bobrovsky+ for Seguin+ swap?
https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/305262
The proposal I made was Seguin+Lehtonen for Bobrovsky+Hartnell, as the salaries are almost even. Then flipped Lehtonen++ to NJ for Schneider (kind of a bizarre move with some retention on both sides).
Saad-Seguin-Foligno
Jenner-Wennberg-Bjorkstrand
Dubois-Dubinsky-Atkinson
Calvert-Sedlak-Anderson
Werenski-Jones
Johnson-Savard
Murray-Carlsson/Nuti
https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/305262
The proposal I made was Seguin+Lehtonen for Bobrovsky+Hartnell, as the salaries are almost even. Then flipped Lehtonen++ to NJ for Schneider (kind of a bizarre move with some retention on both sides).
Saad-Seguin-Foligno
Jenner-Wennberg-Bjorkstrand
Dubois-Dubinsky-Atkinson
Calvert-Sedlak-Anderson
Werenski-Jones
Johnson-Savard
Murray-Carlsson/Nuti
If Jack Johnson is left alone in the expansion draft (meaning Karlsson is taken), I'd offer Murray+Milano for Tyler Johnson
CBJSlash
Registered User
Carlsson and Nuti have made a Murray trade even likely. Depending what happens with Jack.
I'd wonder what we could get from LV for leaving Murray unprotected.
I love Saad, but wonder what Murray + Saad gets us to. Murray + Jenner. Murray + Dubois. Murray + Milano are all things we may read about this summer. We have five top 6 wingers (Saad, Foligno, Atkinson, Bjorkstrand, Jenner). Even Anderson depending on his summer.
I'd imagine Murray at least lands us a quality Karlsson replacement.
Supposing Tavaras negotiations go badly, Jenner + Murray, Dubois + Murray would put us in the ballpark of a player of his ilk. Saad + Murray might be right there. Not advocating this sort of move. Will be an interesting summer.
I'd wonder what we could get from LV for leaving Murray unprotected.
I love Saad, but wonder what Murray + Saad gets us to. Murray + Jenner. Murray + Dubois. Murray + Milano are all things we may read about this summer. We have five top 6 wingers (Saad, Foligno, Atkinson, Bjorkstrand, Jenner). Even Anderson depending on his summer.
I'd imagine Murray at least lands us a quality Karlsson replacement.
Supposing Tavaras negotiations go badly, Jenner + Murray, Dubois + Murray would put us in the ballpark of a player of his ilk. Saad + Murray might be right there. Not advocating this sort of move. Will be an interesting summer.
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cslebn
80 forever
- Feb 15, 2012
- 2,719
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Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
An easy rule of thumb for trades is to put yourself in the mindset of the other team.
You have two top-6 centers. One is a legit league star whose arrival revitalized your team, is on a sweetheart deal, and has excellent chemistry with your franchise winger. The other is strictly a second-liner at this point in his career, on a high-cost contract, and is old enough that he's going to retire soon. The next guy behind them is strictly a #3C that is overpaid and that you expect/hope to lose in the expansion draft; there's no prospects of significance to take up that role anytime at all let alone in the next season. You also have a bit of a blueline problem - they're young and not developing as you hoped. You've got an Overpaid Backup Goaltenders platoon that barely gets by and is a significant weakness of your team, yet have some reasonably good prospects that may be able to take over eventually, and there's a heck of a goaltenders market expected because of the expansion draft.
Do you trade away that star #1C to fix the goaltending? In a proposal where you get back no blueliners, no prospects, and nothing else to shore up the center situation - indeed, the only other asset you get back other than the goaltender is an aging winger with an NMC?
I dunno about you, but me, personally, I'd want to find whoever proposed that idea and set them on fire.
So we could have Johnson and Johnson? Too bad there's nobody in the league named Masters.
I 'd love to see Duchene in Union Blue. Doesn't matter how bad he was last year, whole Avalanche team sucks. Believe that it was and exception. He is a great player, 1st line material, will be in his prime soon. Asking price will be career less for him and I will still send and overpayment offer.
Something around Murray + Nuuti/Karlsson (calmly both) + Milano/Abramov + 2nd round '17 or '18.
Do u guys think Colorado will take this deal?
I know that Abramov has amazing potential, but we still have a lot of F prospects to replace him, i will not be afraid to let him go if it will mean Duchene will go other way. We also can let go both Murray and Nutti, Gabriel Carlsson show in few games that he is capable playing top6 now, top 4 in the future, then russian beast Gavrikov is probably on his way to NHL next season, Harrington as depth. And can sign some vet for 3rd pair.
Something around Murray + Nuuti/Karlsson (calmly both) + Milano/Abramov + 2nd round '17 or '18.
Do u guys think Colorado will take this deal?
I know that Abramov has amazing potential, but we still have a lot of F prospects to replace him, i will not be afraid to let him go if it will mean Duchene will go other way. We also can let go both Murray and Nutti, Gabriel Carlsson show in few games that he is capable playing top6 now, top 4 in the future, then russian beast Gavrikov is probably on his way to NHL next season, Harrington as depth. And can sign some vet for 3rd pair.
I still don't think Murray is expendable yet. Nobody forced their way into the roster. And nobody played well enough to bump Murray off.
If we're going for Tavares we're gonna have to make space for FA and make this team as ready for him as possible.
Make sure depth is on point, defense locked down and Bob focused, but still missing that #1C. Find a way to trade Dubi/Wennberg and roll with
Tavares - Dubi/Wennberg - PLD - Sedlak
We're not getting Tavares any way but FA.
If we're going for Tavares we're gonna have to make space for FA and make this team as ready for him as possible.
Make sure depth is on point, defense locked down and Bob focused, but still missing that #1C. Find a way to trade Dubi/Wennberg and roll with
Tavares - Dubi/Wennberg - PLD - Sedlak
We're not getting Tavares any way but FA.
None of those young dmen have proven anything. Trading away to early is a recipe for disaster.
You right, but if it can help to get Duchene, im all in for it. I know that Murray is playing much below his upside, at least offensively. He is ok, if not one of the best in CBJ defensively. I just see him as a main piece in trade bait for 1C. He will not be 1st pairing guy here with Z and Jones in the line-up. So there is room to let him go for much needed player (position). Just my opinion
Iron Balls McGinty
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- Aug 5, 2005
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'Heck, he would just coach the shootout and maybe teach others on the team to just have A move instead of skating down and passing it to the goalie or trying to put it through their chest.Imagine the fun he'd have in shootout practice!
You right, but if it can help to get Duchene, im all in for it. I know that Murray is playing much below his upside, at least offensively. He is ok, if not one of the best in CBJ defensively. I just see him as a main piece in trade bait for 1C. He will not be 1st pairing guy here with Z and Jones in the line-up. So there is room to let him go for much needed player (position). Just my opinion
I'd rather stuff my D with depth. Look what happened when Murray went out and then Werenski twice behind him.
Now imagine we don't have Murray. Now Werenski and Savard get hurt. You have JJ and Jones...... And a bunch of first year players. Even if you try to add some depth its likely to be more Quincey type depth. I say wait one more year before everyone jumps on the trade Murray bandwagon.
Bob probably gets next year to prove himself in the playoffs, but the Jackets have to have a backup goalie they can put into a playoff game with confidence. They can't risk a season going to waste due to Bob's "issues." Maybe that is Korpi next year. To date, he's shown himself as a cool customer but he's inconsistent, with a flair for spectacular stops, softies, and a lot of flopping around.
I'm curious if anyone has done this analysis - CBJ record when Gagner was playing well vs. CBJ record when he wasn't.
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